Rethinking EV’s?

[BenFenner]

It makes sense to maximize range. There is no debating this.

The reason it is not done for the most part is the popular skateboard architecture, supply chain/parts count reduction, and other financial and engineering efficiency gains.

And I get why new automotive manufacturers making EVs are headed that direction. But legacy manufacturers could easily be providing manual EVs with their existing chassis designs and manufacturing logistics and parts suppliers. We should have about a decade of these things being pumped out before the industry leaves this idea behind and maybe moves to pancake CVTs or I guess just lives with the inefficiency of single-ratio solutions. It's annoying they are wasting this (relatively narrow) opportunity.

[freakystyly]

I love the idea but it seems car companies and mass market consumers are already trying to phase out driver inputs as much as possible with self driving as the end goal. Going the other direction won't look good on their $$$ spreadsheets.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by BenFenner

A manual transmission is my non-negotiable.

There has been at least one production EV with a manual transmission, but it is way too old (1982) to consider, and has other problems. There have been a handful of modern prototypes, but nothing that has been taken seriously.

Of course there are thousands and thousands of them custom made by owners throughout the past ~3 decades, to varying degrees of success...

I'm tired of arguing with people about the benefits of multiple gear ratios for EVs. They provide much better energy efficiency, and performance gains. Electric motors (both AC and DC) are more energy efficient at low RPM but most powerful at a higher RPM. This is the EXACT reason we have multiple ratios for internal combustion engines, and it only makes sense to do the same for EVs.

Porsche figured this out and has 3 gear ratios in their AWD Taycan. The rear axle uses a 2-speed automatic transmission for acceleration, and the front axle provides a 3rd (even taller) ratio for efficiency. Multiple ratios just make sense for EVs in many ways, and if we're going to have them (and we should!) then I insist on rowing my own.

The plug-in hybrid BMWs with pancake motors upstream of the traditional transmission get industry-leading range and efficiency. This is the closest thing we have to a proof of concept but is being ignored because everyone is more excited about self-driving, or bigger iPads on the dash, or in-car ads, or using their smart phone as a key, etc.

So I will be forced to make my own. Odds are I'll convert our 6MT E53. But that's a project for after we build a house and go off-grid solar. And for after I finish the E36/8 and other automotive projects.

Please don't think BMW invented the Integrated Motor Assist (IMA), Honda did, nearly 30 years ago. The first production hybrid with IMA was Honda's Insight. The Insight did have a manual transmission version of the drivetrain.

That video you posted about a manual transmission EV was a clown show - LOL. Real automotive engineering shows a single-speed EV with regenerative braking solution is more energy efficient than a multi-speed manual EV, which is why all EV use such a setup.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by jaffles

Agree home charging is a sad joke and a bit of a feel good ploy on the dealers behalf for new buyers. But its a start for a newish tech and thinking.

In Aus the general purpose wall socket charger that comes with the car is 240v/2kW, but its capped at 2 amps not to overload the home circuit even though its 10amp. You can upgrade to 7kW if you have a 15 amp circuit but the charger is still capped at 4 amps, and so still slow. Its not until you install 3 phase power, or have it already you can have a 22kW charger pumping in 22kW.

At present its an extra cost, but builders or renovators will add it as standard over time. No different to solar, battery, pool, or shed so to speak. I look forward to the day multiple cars are charging at home but all being paid for by the sun. I'm almost there having 3 phase and 13kW solar. For work we just fitted a 22kW charger under a 20kW 3 phase solar system. So virtually no power bill to run the business and now moving to cars to absorb the excess energy the solar makes as the grid offers 2c/kW feed in. Go figure though, as we bought the system from the grid no interest 5 year payment plan. So you could say our whole energy/fuel bill is around 4K a year and the grid still gets a cut. Pretty good for a business with a few cars. Won't get that from fossil fuels plus we have shielded ourselves from Energy wars.

Well, things are certainly different in Australia.

I am in Benton County AR in a nice townhouse with an attached garage. In the living quarters there is an electric stove/oven and clothes washer and clothes dryer. The stove/oven and dryer are 220V (single phase). Oh the electrical service here is a 200amp (single phase) service.

Just last week paid $287 to have a 220/240VAC outlet installed to use with the BMW charger and adapter cable to charge my new i4.

I had been using 120VAC and as soon as I could I gave the high voltage charging a try.

Approx. 4 times faster. At some point I noticed the A/C current charging limit was set to unlimited. I tried setting it to 24 amps and 40 amps and then back up to 48 amps. At any current charging setting I cannot detect any signs of any problems. And the charging speed with the charging current limit set to 40/48amps is quite impressive.

Yesterday charged battery from 43% SOC to 80% SOC. Took 3 hours 26 minutes and the charging level was at 9kWh the entire charging session.

When I charged with the A/C charging current limit set to 24 amps the kWh was 6. But at 40 amps it went to 9kWh. So it would appear the circuit can deliver reliably over time 9kWh.

The first charging session was at an AC Charge Point (a public charging station) and it charged the battery at 6kWh. And A/C charging current limit was set to unlimited.

With more experience under my belt I'm surprised at a public charger the charging was done at 6kWh while at home I can charge at 9kWh. The public charging station had two charger connections. The 2nd one was plugging into a Tesla but according to the display for that cable the battery charge target was reached and I assume there was no current draw that would have affected my charging session.

So sorry to read of charging limitations where you are but I'm thankful I have access to for home charging rather good charging speed. And cost is low. For 395 miles of i4 use I have spent ~$14 for electricity. That's 3.5 cents per mile.

But just to be clear the motivation for getting an i4 was not to avoid the pain at the pump but rather to experience a quality BEV and in the form of a nice driving car and so far the i4 had delivered in spades.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by jaffles

Agree home charging is a sad joke and a bit of a feel good ploy on the dealers behalf for new buyers.

You are either misunderstanding how home charging works, or spreading FUD.
I'm on my 6th EV (2 of those in my current fleet), still using the original 240V Siemens home EVSE I had installed ~15 years ago.
Works perfectly, can charge any car from 0-100% overnight, not that any of my cars ever reach 0%, or that I need to charge them more than once/week. But when I do, I plug them in in the evenging, and it is fully charged by the morning.

Originally Posted by jaffles

In Aus the general purpose wall socket charger that comes with the car is 240v/2kW, but its capped at 2 amps not to overload the home circuit even though its 10amp.

Sorry, that makes ZERO sense, or you are misinformed.
Any circuit can be wired for any level of current. Depending on the intended use.
In the US, all 120V general use circuits are sized for 15-20AMPs per US electric code. 20A for kitchen/laundry. US homes also have at least one (usually 2+) 240V circuits wired for 30A-60A. I repurposed one of those for my EVSE.

The usual limit is that total load should not exceed 80% of the breaking rating (e.g.: 16A max for a 20A breaker).
There is no way in hell would an Australian 240V circuit by capped at 2 AMPs. Perhaps you meant 20 AMPs?

Otherwise, W == V*A == 240 * 2 = 480 Watts --> that circuit will get tripped by a couple of decent sized light bulbs or a desktop computer!
Do you guys have hair dryers down under? If you do, your circuits must be sized for at least 15 AMPs (hair dryers run at 10-15 AMPs).

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

Just last week paid $287 to have a 220/240VAC outlet installed to use with the BMW charger and adapter cable to charge my new i4.
Approx. 4 times faster. At some point I noticed the A/C current charging limit was set to unlimited. I tried setting it to 24 amps and 40 amps and then back up to 48 amps. At any current charging setting I cannot detect any signs of any problems. And the charging speed with the charging current limit set to 40/48amps is quite impressive.

My EVSE (aka L2 home charger) is plugged into repurposed electric dryer outlet (washer/dryer room shares a wall with the garage, as is typical in most US homes). IIRC, it is wired for 40AMPs, and I've been running it soft limited to 80% of that, or 32 AMPs.
32 AMPS at 240V == 7.68KW per hour of charging.
Most EV batteries are sized between 50–82 kWh. Mine are 82 kWh NCA and 72.8 kWh LFP. Basic math will tell you that I could fully recharge both in 10.6 or 9.5 hours, not that I've ever had a chance to charge for that long since the lowest I've ever gotten any EV battery was in low teens.

It's worthwhile to point out that my 82 kWh Model 3 can (optimistically) go for 353 miles on a full charge, at the cost of $0.14 per kW. Thus $11.48 for 353 miles, or $0.0325 per mile.

The best either of my ICE cars can do is 27 MPG on the highway (best case scenario). At the current ~$4.00 per gallon (for cheap stuff, $4.79 for premium), that's $0.1481 per mile.

Or 4.56 multiple delta between the two powertrains.
Or, assuming 10K miles/year, $1,156.27 cost savings per year of EV - ICE. Or a full set of track tires worth of savings per year!

YMMV,
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