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      03-24-2020, 09:24 PM   #1
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Pastor Tony Spell

So the speaker of tongues, faith healer who claims to have cured people of AIDS/HIV continues to defy state guidelines regarding group size. He apparently had a service of 1,000 people last Sunday.

Q: Is society morally obligated to provide medical care for his parishioners who contract CV19?
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      03-24-2020, 09:37 PM   #2
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For a long time i have been having trouble distinguishing between this kind of religious and mental illness.
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      03-24-2020, 09:46 PM   #3
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This lunatic isn't far from where I grew up. He's absolutely bat shit crazy.
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      03-24-2020, 09:53 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
So the speaker of tongues, faith healer who claims to have cured people of AIDS/HIV continues to defy state guidelines regarding group size. He apparently had a service of 1,000 people last Sunday.

Q: Is society morally obligated to provide medical care for his parishioners who contract CV19?
No more than we have to provide for coverage for people that continue to use dangerous drugs. What he is doing is wrong without question. Ive never heard of him to be honest.

Our church will not even support our small groups meeting at peoples houses on Sunday nights because it is not within the CDC guidelines for our area.
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      03-25-2020, 06:15 AM   #5
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I haven't heard of him either. But going into all of this mess one of the first things I thought of was how would a church handle it. They are typically two type of people I have noticed.

1. Those who will go when they are sick regardless.
2. Those who are sick and will do everything else during the week, but on Sunday morning they don't feel well enough to go to church.

My dad is a minister. His first action was social distancing, no personal contact between people, space between seating, etc.

Second week they decided to cancel altogether. This was about 3 weeks ago.
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      03-25-2020, 11:06 AM   #6
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Y'all wouldn't have heard of him because it's not a very big church and it's in Central, Louisiana which is not far outside of Baton Rouge.

He could have gone online like a lot of other churches.
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      03-25-2020, 11:50 AM   #7
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      03-25-2020, 12:07 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by rebekahb View Post
Y'all wouldn't have heard of him because it's not a very big church and it's in Central, Louisiana which is not far outside of Baton Rouge.

He could have gone online like a lot of other churches.
Be safe in NO. I hear they're dealing with a bloom in cases.
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      03-25-2020, 01:31 PM   #9
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Quote:
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Y'all wouldn't have heard of him because it's not a very big church and it's in Central, Louisiana which is not far outside of Baton Rouge.

He could have gone online like a lot of other churches.
Be safe in NO. I hear they're dealing with a bloom in cases.
Thank you, I appreciate it. We increased 407 cases from yesterday.
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      04-02-2020, 11:41 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
So the speaker of tongues, faith healer who claims to have cured people of AIDS/HIV continues to defy state guidelines regarding group size. He apparently had a service of 1,000 people last Sunday.

Q: Is society morally obligated to provide medical care for his parishioners who contract CV19?
Surely this isn't a serious question.

We don't forfeit our rights because the government decides we should. The government didn't give us our rights; and they can't take them away. I find it kind of amusing that anyone would think people that are religious would take the word of some elected official over their God. That's simply not how it works.

Personally I'm extremely concerned how easily people seem to be forfeiting their liberty and freedoms. I applaud the Pastor for taking a stand. The government doesn't get a waiver to the Constitution because they decide they want one.
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      04-02-2020, 12:17 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dog Face Pony Soldier View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
So the speaker of tongues, faith healer who claims to have cured people of AIDS/HIV continues to defy state guidelines regarding group size. He apparently had a service of 1,000 people last Sunday.

Q: Is society morally obligated to provide medical care for his parishioners who contract CV19?
Surely this isn't a serious question.

We don't forfeit our rights because the government decides we should. The government didn't give us our rights; and they can't take them away. I find it kind of amusing that anyone would think people that are religious would take the word of some elected official over their God. That's simply not how it works.

Personally I'm extremely concerned how easily people seem to be forfeiting their liberty and freedoms. I applaud the Pastor for taking a stand. The government doesn't get a waiver to the Constitution because they decide they want one.
With rights come responsibilities.

You and you alone are responsible for the outcomes when you exercise your natural rights. Society as a whole should not be.
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      04-02-2020, 12:36 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dog Face Pony Soldier View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
So the speaker of tongues, faith healer who claims to have cured people of AIDS/HIV continues to defy state guidelines regarding group size. He apparently had a service of 1,000 people last Sunday.

Q: Is society morally obligated to provide medical care for his parishioners who contract CV19?
Surely this isn't a serious question.

We don't forfeit our rights because the government decides we should. The government didn't give us our rights; and they can't take them away. I find it kind of amusing that anyone would think people that are religious would take the word of some elected official over their God. That's simply not how it works.

Personally I'm extremely concerned how easily people seem to be forfeiting their liberty and freedoms. I applaud the Pastor for taking a stand. The government doesn't get a waiver to the Constitution because they decide they want one.
With rights come responsibilities.

You and you alone are responsible for the outcomes when you exercise your natural rights. Society as a whole should not be.
The real point is, what man is justified in denying us our rights? None.

People need to remember (as you put it) these are guidelines. Don't mistake them for anything more.
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      04-02-2020, 07:37 PM   #13
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isn't this how the outbreak started in South Korea? Some church leader kept his doors open to people. infection spread within the church. those people dispersed and got more people infected.

now they are charging that church leader with murder.

exercising your rights is fine. but when it puts others health and well-being in jeopardy we have a problem. For instance you can drink all you want at home, but when you get behind the wheel and you are drunk... thats a problem for everyone.
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      04-02-2020, 07:42 PM   #14
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so be it, as long as the states/fed take responsiblity for health care, you must treat both the smart and dumb equally.
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      04-03-2020, 01:33 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humdizzle View Post
isn't this how the outbreak started in South Korea? Some church leader kept his doors open to people. infection spread within the church. those people dispersed and got more people infected.

now they are charging that church leader with murder.

exercising your rights is fine. but when it puts others health and well-being in jeopardy we have a problem. For instance you can drink all you want at home, but when you get behind the wheel and you are drunk... thats a problem for everyone.
He was charged with murder because his church is a secretive cult. The church wouldn't release the names of the practitioners so that the authorities could trace the movements of the infected. You can exercise rights all you want but you should exercise common sense and practice due diligence in protecting yourself, your church and the community.
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      04-04-2020, 08:13 AM   #16
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The real point is, what man is justified in denying us our rights? None.

People need to remember (as you put it) these are guidelines. Don't mistake them for anything more.
You don't have the "right"(freedom) to yell fire in a theater. He needs to go to jail.
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      04-04-2020, 08:16 AM   #17
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The real point is, what man is justified in denying us our rights? None.

People need to remember (as you put it) these are guidelines. Don't mistake them for anything more.
You don't have the "right"(freedom) to yell fire in a theater. He needs to go to jail.
I believe this is a perfect example of where the "separation of church and state" is wholly appropriate. The government shouldn't be attempting to restrict the free exercise of religion. It's right there in the First Amendment.
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      04-04-2020, 08:45 AM   #18
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I believe this is a perfect example of where the "separation of church and state" is wholly appropriate. The government shouldn't be attempting to restrict the free exercise of religion. It's right there in the First Amendment.
There is no such thing as "separation of Church and State" This is not a religious issue. I generally agree with your posts. But your knowledge on the Constitution appears to be very limited.

This is likely a civil or misdemeanor category punishable under LA State law...period
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      04-04-2020, 08:50 AM   #19
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I believe this is a perfect example of where the "separation of church and state" is wholly appropriate. The government shouldn't be attempting to restrict the free exercise of religion. It's right there in the First Amendment.
There is no such thing as "separation of Church and State" This is not a religious issue. I generally agree with your posts. But your knowledge on the Constitution appears to be very limited.

This is likely a civil or misdemeanor category punishable under LA State law...period
That is why I put that text in quotes. What is in the Constitution is the Free Exercise Clause.

LA state law doesn't supersede our Constitution. I applaud the pastor for not letting LA trample over his rights. If the state was stupid enough to arrest him they would be violating his rights and should be punished accordingly. No government gets a waiver to the Constitution because they decide they want one.

Kinda scary anyone could really think the government preventing the free exercise of religion isn't an issue that involves religion.
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      04-04-2020, 09:05 AM   #20
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With rights come responsibilities.

You and you alone are responsible for the outcomes when you exercise your natural rights. Society as a whole should not be.
Yet almost every state has a motorcycle helmet law. The argument is the person involved in a motorcycle accident who gets a brain injury becomes a burden on society (same argument you are making).

But this logic applies to most activities. The Government runs the National Park System. Millions of people go hiking/rock climbing every year. A certain percentage get hurt or lost or killed in the National Park System yet no one makes the argument that injured hikers/rock climbers are a burden on society.

I see observing a religious celebration even during a pandemic as no difference.
We're basically in agreement here, so don't take this as a disagreement, but there is a difference. A huge difference. The difference is the Constitution explicitly says the government can't restrict the free exercise of religion. These governments are simply not permitted to impede people from attending religious services. The just don't hold that authority.

I'm waiting to see some Christian or Jewish politician attempt to shut down a mosque. That will be interesting.
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      04-04-2020, 09:12 AM   #21
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
With rights come responsibilities.

You and you alone are responsible for the outcomes when you exercise your natural rights. Society as a whole should not be.
Yet almost every state has a motorcycle helmet law. The argument is the person involved in a motorcycle accident who gets a brain injury becomes a burden on society (same argument you are making).

But this logic applies to most activities. The Government runs the National Park System. Millions of people go hiking/rock climbing every year. A certain percentage get hurt or lost or killed in the National Park System yet no one makes the argument that injured hikers/rock climbers are a burden on society.

I see observing a religious celebration even during a pandemic as no difference.
We're basically in agreement here, so don't take this as a disagreement, but there is a difference. A huge difference. The difference is the Constitution explicitly says the government can't restrict the free exercise of religion. These governments are simply not permitted to impede people from attending religious services.
No1: They're not saying you can't practice your religion.

No2: The law on group sizes applies to all people.

So no, there's no Constitutional problem.
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      04-04-2020, 09:14 AM   #22
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With rights come responsibilities.

You and you alone are responsible for the outcomes when you exercise your natural rights. Society as a whole should not be.
Yet almost every state has a motorcycle helmet law. Keep in mind motorcycle helmets don't protect from brain injury over 30 MPH. The argument is the helmetless person involved in a motorcycle accident who gets a brain injury becomes a burden on society (same argument you are making).

But this logic applies to most activities. The Government runs the National Park System. Millions of people go hiking/rock climbing every year. A certain percentage get hurt or lost or killed in the National Park System yet no one makes the argument that injured hikers/rock climbers are a burden on society.

I see observing a religious celebration even during a pandemic as no difference.
Nothing here puts society as a whole at risk. Not really compareble.
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