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      05-19-2022, 10:08 AM   #45
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One other really interesting thing is to see how life evolves... look at Artificial Intelligence self-learning ability. even as simple of how to play a game like pong. it can literally figure it out by having only one simple goal... maximize points. it will develop mind-blowingly creative ways to out perform a human with nothing more than a computer that has zero intelligence and one single goal.

Apply that scenario to earth's biology with one goal - maximize survivability. it will do amazingly creative things to survive. there are signs all over the world and in every species that prove this is working.. From monkey's who create tools, to cuddle fish being able to cloak their surroundings. millions of examples of evolution and biology doing everything it can to maximize survivability and adapt.

Last edited by kring; 05-19-2022 at 10:16 AM..
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      05-19-2022, 10:12 AM   #46
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First off - I love cars & guitars... I'm a strat guy and I got my daughter a PRS and it's extremely impressive... Gibsons, Tele's and larger bodies just are not comfortable. you?

but I digress; not to make a long topic here or get far off. but it is very very simply provable with science. it starts with things like bacteria and how they morph, then you can trace lineage of animals (sure there are some gap periods) but you can see in that lineage both visually and through DNA the traceability of evolution. you can see the forking in specie tree's based on environmental conditions.. all FACT and easily reproducible science without using any assumptions or guesses.

a mammal isn't a real thing, it's a classification made by humans. a whale doesn't know it's a mammal and it's not a mammal by any standard other than human language & thought.

Short-neck giraffes are zebra, horses or other life forms... all short-neck giraffes died as part of evolution because they couldn't reach the food that was high in the tree... that's evolution.. those that can't eat, die, those that can, live on. those that learn to climb a tree live longer than those that can't. it really is super-simple and fully explainable.
I'm more into Teles / Les Pauls but damn they are too heavy. Lately its been all acoustic though. Yes, even inexpensive PRS are solid instruments!

I realize mammal is a man-made classification, but so is anything else described with language. I should not have digressed into the stereotypical short necked giraffe thing, and no I have no expertise in how evolution progresses (or doesn't).

My real fascination is with intelligent design and the wonderment of how so many different replicable patterns and functions within and across species came to be.
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      05-19-2022, 10:16 AM   #47
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You know me so well. You're such a clever boy. What is your need to dive right into insults? Evolution!
I literally answered your question and you kept going. I dont have patience for that, I can be nice to people who prove they can learn.

When you make the claim that people just took what they learned in elementary "on faith" as an argument for religion then you are insulting people who know more than you because they know more than you by insinuating they just stopped paying attention once they got bored after finger painting.

So climb off your freshly waxed cross. If you want to remain in the dark to defend something you take "on faith" go ahead, but if you jump in and start claiming were all stupid because we dont Im going to make fun of you.
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      05-19-2022, 10:18 AM   #48
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For all we know WE are the evidence of aliens. Maybe the Earths "Gods" are aliens from other places that dropped us off one day and said "Here you go. Here is an entire planet for you. Don't fuck it up."

We fucked it up.
Maybe not believing in aliens is my wishful thinking. Because we are definitely at the "throw it away and start again" phase of human development. If your theory was accurate its only a matter of time until they come along, realize we shit the bed, and push the reset button.
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      05-19-2022, 10:24 AM   #49
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I literally answered your question and you kept going. I dont have patience for that, I can be nice to people who prove they can learn.

When you make the claim that people just took what they learned in elementary "on faith" as an argument for religion then you are insulting people who know more than you because they know more than you by insinuating they just stopped paying attention once they got bored after finger painting.

So climb off your freshly waxed cross. If you want to remain in the dark to defend something you take "on faith" go ahead, but if you jump in and start claiming were all stupid because we dont Im going to make fun of you.
I was very generalized in my comment, directed at no one. You directly attacked me personally my very first post on the subject... And who the F are you that I have to prove anything to you in order for you to be considerate? Done.
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      05-19-2022, 10:26 AM   #50
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I have a LP studio, even with weight relief it's heavy and the sharp body edge digs into my forearm, love the sound, don't like the ergonomics of it.

I hear ya, it is all amazing stuff.

I'll add this and maybe it sparks some wow factor. How did life begin? what "sparked" it?

Well, it's also been proven in controlled lab environments that taking a mixture of natural elements (oxygen, nitrogen, carbon, etc..) and then applying conditions such as heat and motion... things happen.... Over time these elements interact and develop into more complex molecular structures such as water, methane, etc... This repeats and happens over and over again under varying conditions until... a single cell organism forms. Life happens on it's own and it happens with just a few elements, some energy and time. pretty darn cool.

While I don't believe in a god; I have come to believe that religion had a tremendous part in intelligent life forming, and I think if people were more religious than the world would be a much better place than it is today. When I say religious I'm referring to things like sense of community, being kind, helping others, being patient, thinking positive, self-control.... key concepts many religions try to instill. I don't agree with the other aspects that come with nearly all religions of war, dictation, lying, corruption, etc... it's ashamed that you can't really separate those two aspects of religion and if you want to practice being part of community, you have to accept the bad and other beliefs or you are outcast. it's unfortunately it's an all or nothing situation... and that's why it pushes more away than it attracts.

anyway, back to topic.

Life is amazing and probable occurring everywhere across the universe, Aliens are totally suspect at this point.

Last edited by kring; 05-19-2022 at 10:39 AM..
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      05-19-2022, 10:58 AM   #51
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One other really interesting thing is to see how life evolves... look at Artificial Intelligence self-learning ability. even as simple of how to play a game like pong. it can literally figure it out by having only one simple goal... maximize points. it will develop mind-blowingly creative ways to out perform a human with nothing more than a computer that has zero intelligence and one single goal.

Apply that scenario to earth's biology with one goal - maximize survivability. it will do amazingly creative things to survive. there are signs all over the world and in every species that prove this is working.. From monkey's who create tools, to cuddle fish being able to cloak their surroundings. millions of examples of evolution and biology doing everything it can to maximize survivability and adapt.
Had to, sorry.

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      05-19-2022, 11:01 AM   #52
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Had to, sorry.
It's perfect!
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      05-19-2022, 11:16 AM   #53
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1. If there were inteligent life that has the techological ability to "visit" us, they would have taken over. Or is there some kind of rule that states that intelligent beings must be benevolent.. like us?
2. The universe is huge but is there an imaginable agency that states that intelligent life needs to be uniformly dispersed? Usually, from what we see, there is a lot of life or there is none. Or are we a random unlucky outlier far from any clusters of life?
3. If we want to incorportate randomness, we need to involve long ages and distance but the numbers don't add up so we need to devise a theory such as the multi-verse. In the multi-verse there are an infinite number of planets hosting sentient beings and some of them have a copy of you and I and this bimmerpost forum. Anyting is possible I guess?
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      05-19-2022, 11:45 AM   #54
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Not sure why I was pulled in so hard to this topic, ha! but one more thing to add.

There is still quite a bit of science we haven't figured out, and it's actually the basics. it's likely the key to unlocking our understanding of everything in the universe but we appear to be far off from figuring it out. for example, here's 4 things that seem connected that humans do not understand:
  • Gravity - we have no idea what it is, how it works, how to create or destroy it, or even why it exists... we only understand that it's real and we can only assume it exists because we see the effects of it and we have a way to measure an effect of it.
  • Light - we have no idea what it is, how it's made, or how it works, we don't know how it travels we only know what we visually observe that there is light and it's visible... we think we can measure it's speed but that's not certain.
  • Dark Energy and Dark Matter - no clue what these are, where it can be found, how it works, how to observe it, how it relates to other things such as light and gravity. we are pretty sure they exists but have little proof, some ideas think it's absence of energy, others think it makes up the majority of the universe. it may be a web of stuff holding the universe together and everything interacts with it.
  • Time - no clue what this is, can explain concepts about it, but we're not sure if it's real, if it means anything, if it has any influence on other forces, can it be controlled or stopped, or circumvented. Time is just a measurement, but a measurement of what? is it a dimension?

Likely we won't be able to solve these here on earth. we are like an ant trying to validate Saturn's existence from inside the ant farm. the ant can have ideas but no way to validate without getting out and exploring.

This is why astronomy and space are so interesting to many; it's quite likely that branch of science is the key to getting these answers which could then unlock what seems impossible to us today.

alright, someone take away my nerd mic now please.

Last edited by kring; 05-19-2022 at 11:53 AM..
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      05-19-2022, 11:53 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by kring View Post
Not sure why I was pulled in so hard to this topic, ha! but one more thing to add.

There is still quite a bit of science we haven't figured out, and it's actually the basics. it's likely the key to unlocking our understanding of everything in the universe but we appear to be far off from figuring it out. for example, here's 4 things that seem connected that humans do not understand:
  • Gravity - we have no idea what it is, how it works, how to create or destroy it, or even why it exists... we only understand that it's real and we can only assume it exists because we see the effects of it and we have a way to measure an effect of it.
  • Light - we have no idea what it is, how it's made, or how it works, we don't know how it travels we only know what we visually observe that there is light and it's visible... we think we can measure it's speed but that's not certain.
  • Dark Energy and Dark Matter - no clue what these are, where it can be found, how it works, how to observe it, how it relates to other things such as light and gravity. we are pretty sure they exists but have little proof, some ideas think it's absence of energy, others thing it makes up the majority of the universe. it may be a web or stuff.
  • Time - no clue what this is, can explain concepts about it, but we're not sure if it's real, if it means anything, if it has any influence on other forces, can it be controlled or stopped, or circumvented.

Likely we won't be able to solve these here on earth. we are like an ant trying to validate Saturn's existence from inside the ant farm. the ant can have ideas but no way to validate without getting out and exploring.

This is why astronomy and space are so interesting to many; it's quite likely that branch of science is the key to getting these answers which could then unlock what seems impossible to us today.

alright, someone take away my nerd mic now please.
We don't know what Light is? It's photons. We know a ton about light aka photons. Including that it has no mass, and therefore its speed is the fastest in the known universe as other matter has mass and therefore slowed down.
Gravity we don't know whether there is a particle/force that is responsible for it's effect, but we believe there probably is but we cannot isolate it at this point as we think we cannot make sufficient energy to produce the particle.
Dark energy and dark matter are generally unknowns but we are very confident they exist but as they do not interact with normal matter, they only interact with "gravity" so we cannot know many of of its other features
Time - that one's tough but if you know about the theory of general relativity it is affected by mass, gravity, etc.
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      05-19-2022, 12:01 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by ryan stewart View Post
Unlike you some of us continued learning AFTER elementary school.
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Originally Posted by CarsAndGuitars View Post
You know me so well. You're such a clever boy. What is your need to dive right into insults? Evolution!
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It's kind of his thing. He is an asshole and we all love him for it.
Yes...but his ex certainly didn't. Hence the high speed application of her iphone to his noggin and the subsequent cessation of the relationship.
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      05-19-2022, 12:04 PM   #57
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3. If we want to incorportate randomness, we need to involve long ages and distance but the numbers don't add up so we need to devise a theory such as the multi-verse. In the multi-verse there are an infinite number of planets hosting sentient beings and some of them have a copy of you and I and this bimmerpost forum. Anyting is possible I guess?
Aye, Rick and Morty already explained this one. I want some interdimensional cable!
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      05-19-2022, 12:10 PM   #58
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We don't know what Light is? It's photons. We know a ton about light aka photons. Including that it has no mass, and therefore its speed is the fastest in the known universe as other matter has mass and therefore slowed down.
Gravity we don't know whether there is a particle/force that is responsible for it's effect, but we believe there probably is but we cannot isolate it at this point as we think we cannot make sufficient energy to produce the particle.
Dark energy and dark matter are generally unknowns but we are very confident they exist but as they do not interact with normal matter, they only interact with "gravity" so we cannot know many of of its other features
Time - that one's tough but if you know about the theory of general relativity it is affected by mass, gravity, etc.
All those are our current best guess explanation and ideas that we are grounding ourselves in... but likely all incorrect because they do a bad job of explaining many scenarios of each. it's simply our best guess.

for example, the most common is light is made of photons - well likely not actually. That's only how we like to explain it... it's more probable light is an electromagnetic wave traveling like a ripple in a pond across dark mater/energy and not a particle that gets shot out which hits your eye or a wall to see it. photon's pretty much fail to explain nearly everything about the behavior of light and energy. I'd bet all my money photon's are not light. that's a bet I'd take on any day. though since we can't prove any of it there's no one to take that bet We can speed up, slow down, bend light. we can transform it, it's influenced by gravity but not other factors such as time and distance... it can pass through some things and not others... that's not a particle or photon.... makes no sense if you look at lights behaviors.

I think we're at a stage in science where we can methodically start to figure some stuff out, we are beginning to see we are wrong on some of the really really basics and in order to find the answer we need more information (outside earth) and let go of our bad assumptions that hold us back, it's just hard because it changes a lot of what we think we know.

Last edited by kring; 05-19-2022 at 12:15 PM..
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      05-19-2022, 12:12 PM   #59
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All those are our current best guess explanation and ideas that we are grounding ourselves in... but likely all incorrect because they do a bad job of explaining many scenarios of each. it's simply our best guess.

for example, the most common is light is made of photons - well likely not actually. That's only how we like to explain it... it's more probable light is an electromagnetic wave traveling like a ripple in a pond across dark mater/energy and not a particle that gets shot out which hits your eye or a wall to see it. photon's pretty much fail to explain nearly everything about the behavior of light and energy. I'd bet all my money photon's are not light. that's a bet I'd take on any day. though since we can't prove any of it there's no one to take that bet

I think we're at a stage in science where we can methodically start to figure some stuff out, but we are beginning to see we are wrong on some of the really really basics and in order to find the answer we need more information (outside earth) and let go of our bad assumptions that hold us back, it's just hard because it changes a lot of what we think we know.
I'm not saying the standard model of particle physics is the end all be all but i think you're undervaluing what is known.
Look into the duality of light being a wave/particle. It's definitely an interesting subject
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      05-19-2022, 12:28 PM   #60
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I'm not saying the standard model of particle physics is the end all be all but i think you're undervaluing what is known.
Look into the duality of light being a wave/particle. It's definitely an interesting subject

I'll give you that. It's likely we're not totally wrong, but we're missing a key ingredient that makes us understand each for real. My point being that while we know a lot there are some really big holes in the basics and people who aren't in these fields or hobbyist have no idea. This was all news to me a few years ago, I assumed we had those answers down solid coming out of school only to find out we didn't really have any answers
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      05-19-2022, 12:45 PM   #61
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I’m interested in why considering there are more stars and planets than grains of sand on the Earth.

I personally have never met anyone that didn’t but some of you must be out there…anyone?
I'm pretty certain that there is life elsewhere in the Universe. I'm less sure that aliens have visited our world just due to the massive distance between stars.

That said, I know there are alien-looking creatures walking around on Earth thanks to the cosmetic surgery industry that is preying on men and women who just can't stop trying to look perfect and keep going back for more. I suppose this topic is for another thread.
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      05-19-2022, 12:56 PM   #62
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only aliens i believe in are the ones that are running the simulation we are in
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      05-19-2022, 01:01 PM   #63
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I believe there should be some form of life out there in the universe.

No idea what to call them or what they will look like.
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      05-19-2022, 01:12 PM   #64
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Yes...but his ex certainly didn't. Hence the high speed application of her iphone to his noggin and the subsequent cessation of the relationship.
She actually still does and constantly asks for more chances. Quit drinking and is doing some sort of therapy to prove she can solve it.
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      05-19-2022, 01:12 PM   #65
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Whether or not there are aliens just isn’t on my list of things to give a shit about. Asteroids hitting earth, and nuclear war are also on that list. Things I can’t prepare for, can’t reasonably anticipate, and won’t know the consequences of until they happen, if I survive them. I have more immediate issues in my life.
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      05-19-2022, 01:57 PM   #66
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Talking

How come there is not a single high-resolution picture or video of any of the said UFOs?

Millions of people walking around with 4K capable phones, and even the military video cameras all record terrible, terrible images.

That makes no sense at all - if there are aliens how can we not get some at least hi-res images or non-shakey close-up videos?



PS- I do think that there are aliens, do they visit us, probably? But why have they not made 'contact'?
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