Still want an EV?

[EdM5]

After many years of traditional M-cars I bought an i4 M50.
Yeah, I sometimes miss the bark of my beloved M4 and the i4 M50 is definitely not a proper M car.
But I haven't regret the move for a single day. Total running costs of the i4 M50 is about 60% of the M4. And the straight line acceleration is ridiculously fun. The car is always charged thanks to my wallbox on the driveway and I sure as hell don't miss pumping gas.
But I live in a small country, almost completely urban area driving with a dense charging infrastructure. I could't imagine owning an EV in large parts of the USA or Australia.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by KRS_SN

https://insideevs.com/news/655782/ge...-over-e-fuels/

Objection sustained!

When you've had enough of the e u 'court'
https://www.google.co.uk/search?sxsr...id:beAc5oqxBHw

[KRS_SN]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

When you've had enough of the e u 'court'
https://www.google.co.uk/search?sxsr...id:beAc5oqxBHw

The synthetic fuel option having read into it may be a ray of hope
split H20 into hydrogen and oxygen
Mix hydrogen with co2 to make a cocktail
add some natural oils into it
And you have the efuel! (e-diesel or e petrol)
the energy to split H20 comes from solar power
the co2 is captured from the atmosphere
carbon neutral accounting done

But need constant sunshine for solar for H20 electrolysis so need to be somewhere else than Europe or UK!

Also the major downside is why go through all this hassle if the energy can be directly used to charge a battery!
So we need a mix of solutions hydrogen efuel battery and fossil fuel. But then the question is what are we achieving by undertaking all this effort and investment is it worth it financially of from an environment POV.. questions questions.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by KRS_SN

The synthetic fuel option having read into it may be a ray of hope
split H20 into hydrogen and oxygen
Mix hydrogen with co2 to make a cocktail
add some natural oils into it
And you have the efuel! (e-diesel or e petrol)
the energy to split H20 comes from solar power
the co2 is captured from the atmosphere
carbon neutral accounting done

But need constant sunshine for solar for H20 electrolysis so need to be somewhere else than Europe or UK!

Also the major downside is why go through all this hassle if the energy can be directly used to charge a battery!
So we need a mix of solutions hydrogen efuel battery and fossil fuel. But then the question is what are we achieving by undertaking all this effort and investment is it worth it financially of from an environment POV.. questions questions.

I think one reason to go through the hassle would be the ability to use synthetic fuel in the current distribution network (gas stations) without having to double the size of the existing infrastructure to deliver the needed electricity for charging.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

I think one reason to go through the hassle would be the ability to use synthetic fuel in the current distribution network (gas stations) without having to double the size of the existing infrastructure to deliver the needed electricity for charging.

Put simply to have this synthetic fuel next to normal gas pumps.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Tes steering wheels dropping off when driving.. a new one that didn't even have the nut fitted, so I gather they are not even test driven to see if they are roadworthy? Pays your money and go down to the delivery dock to collect it and could end up in the bay.

Remember when a Model 3 was delivered without brake pads?

https://www.thedrive.com/news/43876/...ng-a-brake-pad

I don't ever recall any other manufacturer having a similar incident.

[StradaRedlands]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Put simply to have this synthetic fuel next to normal gas pumps.

Or mix it in at different percentages like ethanol or bio-diesel. I still think the costs will be prohibitive.

[Mason Hatcher]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

If you go back through this thread you'd see that this type of comment has been made time and again. It takes 5-10 years to construct a reactor. That's after planning, environmental assessments, getting past the NIMBY's and government approval. Same goes for the transmission lines.

Those simple facts and some common sense tells me that there won't be a sufficient power supply available by 2035.

Can anyone think of a time when government has managed to do anything on time or on budget?

New housing developments, new commercial and industrial building won't overload grid capacity, but electric cars will?

Back in the 50s few people had AC. When central ac and window units starting being installed, and commercial buildings starting adding HVAV the grid kept up.

Arguing about the grid and EV impact on it seems dumb.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Remember when a Model 3 was delivered without brake pads?

https://www.thedrive.com/news/43876/...ng-a-brake-pad

I don't ever recall any other manufacturer having a similar incident.

Bad Tesla service rearing it's ugly head, have not even got any parts available as with their belief that pads last 100k km, so shop is just full of excuses.
*This model production number can be traced back to the production line to catch the operative who was responsible for that particular assembly and I refer to my previous post that these cars are unlikely to have any road-worthiness tests after build.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by StradaRedlands

Or mix it in at different percentages like ethanol or bio-diesel. I still think the costs will be prohibitive.

I'm totally lost on what this synthetic gas would be like and I can only think of what they have in Brazil,alcohol made with extract from trees ?

[StradaRedlands]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

I'm totally lost on what this synthetic gas would be like and I can only think of what they have in Brazil,alcohol made with extract from trees ?

I don't know about the Brazilian fuel, sounds like ethanol? Bio-fuels aren't sustainable though (rainforest=good), but sounds like synthetic cooooould be. The form of the energy inputs are the trick... how much of the US's southwestern desert will you need to cover with PV panels to do this?

We really need a Dyson sphere.

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by Mason Hatcher

New housing developments, new commercial and industrial building won't overload grid capacity, but electric cars will?

Back in the 50s few people had AC. When central ac and window units starting being installed, and commercial buildings starting adding HVAV the grid kept up.

Arguing about the grid and EV impact on it seems dumb.

It's not that we can't evolve the grid, it's the time span. Imagine in 1950 a law was passed that by 1963 all homes needed to have AC, and that it had to be used a lot, year round rain or shine.

13 years isn't enough time to get it done.

Then there is the problem of where this power will come from, it's still a mystery as we continue to shut down coal plants, and what we are replacing it with isn't available a lot of the time. In the 1950's we were building hydro and coal left and right, and on grand scales.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

It's not that we can't evolve the grid, it's the time span. Imagine in 1950 a law was passed that by 1963 all homes needed to have AC, and that it had to be used a lot, year round rain or shine.

13 years isn't enough time to get it done.

Then there is the problem of where this power will come from, it's still a mystery as we continue to shut down coal plants, and what we are replacing it with isn't available a lot of the time. In the 1950's we were building hydro and coal left and right, and on grand scales.

And I just saw a news story about how there are shortages of qualified electricians to do the power line installs needed to expand the grid. So you have that constraint there too.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by Mason Hatcher

New housing developments, new commercial and industrial building won't overload grid capacity, but electric cars will?

Back in the 50s few people had AC. When central ac and window units starting being installed, and commercial buildings starting adding HVAV the grid kept up.

Arguing about the grid and EV impact on it seems dumb.

Tell that to the folks in California with rolling black outs.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN2AX18Y

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

It's not that we can't evolve the grid, it's the time span. Imagine in 1950 a law was passed that by 1963 all homes needed to have AC, and that it had to be used a lot, year round rain or shine.

13 years isn't enough time to get it done.

Then there is the problem of where this power will come from, it's still a mystery as we continue to shut down coal plants, and what we are replacing it with isn't available a lot of the time. In the 1950's we were building hydro and coal left and right, and on grand scales.

That is an excellent comparison. I say so, because I am in the air conditioning industry. That could never have happened in 13 years.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

Tell that to the folks in California with rolling black outs.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN2AX18Y

And it's not just California. I experienced outages recently at my primary home. Some that didn't last that long. Some that lasted over an hour. Same applies to my vacation home over in Delaware. It's not uncommon for me to show up there and see power has been out when I see the flashing clocks on my appliances.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by StradaRedlands

I don't know about the Brazilian fuel, sounds like ethanol? Bio-fuels aren't sustainable though (rainforest=good), but sounds like synthetic cooooould be. The form of the energy inputs are the trick... how much of the US's southwestern desert will you need to cover with PV panels to do this?

We really need a Dyson sphere.

Of course, I was looking for that word 'Ethanol' to which there are a lot of VW Beetle's in Brazil running on that.
There are small concentrations of ethanol in the gas over here which has been reported to be bad for car engine seals especially with the normal 95 E10 gas with 10% ethanol in it. I use a 99 RON gas in the M that has no ethanol in it, Texaco Supreme Performance.

[KRS_SN]

Cant get enough electricity to run evs and now we need electricity to make synthetic fuels too. One more added to the imaginary wishlist i suppose

[freakystyly]

Not saying consumer level consumption would make up the difference but oil and gas production is among the top consumers of electricity. A reduction should in theory free up some capacity. But it likely wont.

[KRS_SN]

Interesting point
Do we have data on how many kwh of electricity are needed to produce 1litre of synthetic fuel.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by KRS_SN

Interesting point
Do we have data on how many kwh of electricity are needed to produce 1litre of synthetic fuel.

Harry's Garage, he's talking about EV vs Hybrid vs Synthetic. He gets to the synthetic bit about the 7 minute mark.

[KRS_SN]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

Harry's Garage, he's talking about EV vs Hybrid vs Synthetic. He gets to the synthetic bit about the 7 minute mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dO1RiTCZFFg

Like Harry if you want to keep your classic cars going without feeling guilty about carbon emissions and have money to pay for it they seem to serve a purpose. I suspect that the cost will be prohibitive for most normal ice users.