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      05-19-2023, 09:01 PM   #2355
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Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX View Post
Hate to break it to you but the best selling car (non truck) in the US right now is the Model Y and the Model 3 is 5th on the list from a 10 year old car company that doesn't even advertise.....so yeah, they are selling like hot cakes....
Tesla with it's whopping 4 models to chose from is set to outsale BMW and Mercedes combined in 2023....btw, no government is forcing anything as of today....

I don't have a dog in this hunt as I have more gas cars than EV's and love them, but it's not hard to see and figure out why Tesla is currently outselling BMW, Audi, Mercedes, etc...no need to get bent about it, it is what it is and facts are facts, no need to argue them unless you refuse to believe them
Well, let's do some market analysis. The Model Y sold for 2023 Q1 a nice round 85,000 units. The next best sales of that CUV class was the RAV4 at 84,704; so it is not like the Model Y walked away from the Toyota in unit volume. Then consider the next two CUV in that class: Nissan Rouge at 76,499, and Honda CR-V at 67,241. If it is considered those class of CUV buyers cross shopped the Tesla EV as a consideration, the three ICE CUVs combined smoked the EV CUV in unit sales.

Elon himself said in the interview referenced a few pages back that Tesla is adjusting MSRP based on demand curves. This is exactly what the legacy manufacturers do, it's just obfuscated by the dealership price incentives scheme. So that says Tesla sales have leveled and joined the sales adjustment forces the market experiences over time. Oh, and the Feds stack the deck for the EV...
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      05-20-2023, 08:09 AM   #2356
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It is hard to deny Tesla has become a very successful car manufacturer. Just wait until they unveil a sub $30k EV and make profit on it(unlike legacy automakers).
I hope they do too, but I just don't see it happening. Batteries are just too expensive to manufacture.
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      05-20-2023, 08:30 AM   #2357
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I hope they do too, but I just don't see it happening. Batteries are just too expensive to manufacture.
Iíll tell you what man I hope for success for Elon Musk. I suspect battery technology will change overtime. I hope it does. I hope all of our concerns that weíve had over this go away. I would like to see electric vehicles actually become a viable option for every American.

As Iíve said before, right now, itís just a cool extra car to have an upper middle-class families current fleets. I also suspect that for many Americans itís just a ďlook at how green I amĒ to the neighbors fleet addition. What I still canít get over and what scares the crap out of me, is there are so many Americans, including many right here on this thread that have zero problem with governments around the world, forcing this on the population. Makes me wonder what else they would be OK with government forcing on them. I bet many of the same people fell right into the herd mentality during the overbearing Covid restrictions. I bet many of them were enthusiastic about those restrictions. Just scary.

Of course, none of these concerns of mine, have anything to do with me, welcoming different technologies to the automotive world. The more competition, the better I say. Let capitalism rule the day and better battery technology and charging technology will absolutely come faster than what government restrictions and mandates will ever produce. I assure you of that.

Weíve come to the point in our country, where freedom, including economic freedom has been so taken for granted by our populace, that it appears it will be very simple for powerful people to take it away from us, without most even noticing until itís completely gone.
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      05-20-2023, 08:57 AM   #2358
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Iíll tell you what man I hope for success for Elon Musk. I suspect battery technology will change overtime. I hope it does. I hope all of our concerns that weíve had over this go away. I would like to see electric vehicles actually become a viable option for every American.

As Iíve said before, right now, itís just a cool extra car to have an upper middle-class families current fleets. I also suspect that for many Americans itís just a ďlook at how green I amĒ to the neighbors fleet addition. What I still canít get over and what scares the crap out of me, is there are so many Americans, including many right here on this thread that have zero problem with governments around the world, forcing this on the population. Makes me wonder what else they would be OK with government forcing on them. I bet many of the same people fell right into the herd mentality during the overbearing Covid restrictions. I bet many of them were enthusiastic about those restrictions. Just scary.

Of course, none of these concerns of mine, have anything to do with me, welcoming different technologies to the automotive world. The more competition, the better I say. Let capitalism rule the day and better battery technology and charging technology will absolutely come faster than what government restrictions and mandates will ever produce. I assure you of that.

Weíve come to the point in our country, where freedom, including economic freedom has been so taken for granted by our populace, that it appears it will be very simple for powerful people to take it away from us, without most even noticing until itís completely gone.
We are the offspring of the generation who fought WWII, so we have the correct understanding as you espoused above. It's now a generation gas issue.

But my concern is also the adjacent impacts of the petrochemical industry and electrical generation industry. The mass adoption of BEV is going to have large price impacts on home heating oil, gasoline, jet fuel, and electricity. All of those impacts are going to make life more expensive, which most people do not realize. Sell a pure serial hybrid EV, and I'll buy 3 of them, tomorrow.
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      05-20-2023, 09:10 AM   #2359
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
We are the offspring of the generation who fought WWII, so we have the correct understanding as you espoused above. It's now a generation gas issue.

But my concern is also the adjacent impacts of the petrochemical industry and electrical generation industry. The mass adoption of BEV is going to have large price impacts on home heating oil, gasoline, jet fuel, and electricity. All of those impacts are going to make life more expensive, which most people do not realize. Sell a pure serial hybrid EV, and I'll buy 3 of them, tomorrow.
But as you have seen from the threads token troll as well as many others, they donít give a crap about that. These are all middle class or upper middle class that have put all their faith and trust in government. Of course, the poor donít pay attention, and will be affected the most by this in the end, but so long as people of means enthusiastically, allow this to happen, thereís no telling how far it might go. Lastly, remember, the people who are implementing this donít give a crap either about all the things and concerns you mentioned above either. You and I both know this is more about control than it is about the environment. What will happen is we will end up reacting to all the problems this causes rather than being proactive. Government interfering in capitalism would be equivalent to Tim Cook, putting me in charge of accounting at Apple. Lol. A total disaster.
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      05-20-2023, 10:58 AM   #2360
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Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX View Post
either way, it's pretty indicative that they are in fact "selling like hot cakes"
It will be that way for a while. And because elon has dropped the price on his models, jesus christ the dude is fucking smart so whatever small market other car makers have with their EV at their lower price point, here comes elon to the rescue by offering BETTER EV's at their lower price point as well LOL.

I know elon can't be on top forever but he will be for many more years to come. ALmost everyone i know wants a tesla, or an EV. My coworker just go his ID4 which is pretty sweet. However i don't trust VW's and their reliability. Tesla definitely has that beat. As well as range, performance and the network.


This is fun!
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      05-20-2023, 11:17 AM   #2361
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Originally Posted by Patton250 View Post
But as you have seen from the threads token troll as well as many others, they donít give a crap about that. These are all middle class or upper middle class that have put all their faith and trust in government. Of course, the poor donít pay attention, and will be affected the most by this in the end, but so long as people of means enthusiastically, allow this to happen, thereís no telling how far it might go. Lastly, remember, the people who are implementing this donít give a crap either about all the things and concerns you mentioned above either. You and I both know this is more about control than it is about the environment. What will happen is we will end up reacting to all the problems this causes rather than being proactive. Government interfering in capitalism would be equivalent to Tim Cook, putting me in charge of accounting at Apple. Lol. A total disaster.
It is possible to get an EV because you want to try out a potentially really fun car. It is possible to also not trust government or desire the blunt hand of government to intervene in markets.
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      05-20-2023, 11:21 AM   #2362
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Originally Posted by Patton250 View Post
But as you have seen from the threads token troll as well as many others, they donít give a crap about that. These are all middle class or upper middle class that have put all their faith and trust in government. Of course, the poor donít pay attention, and will be affected the most by this in the end, but so long as people of means enthusiastically, allow this to happen, thereís no telling how far it might go. Lastly, remember, the people who are implementing this donít give a crap either about all the things and concerns you mentioned above either. You and I both know this is more about control than it is about the environment. What will happen is we will end up reacting to all the problems this causes rather than being proactive. Government interfering in capitalism would be equivalent to Tim Cook, putting me in charge of accounting at Apple. Lol. A total disaster.
Worried we're going to get booted for politics... we should probably go PM...

I really think it's no deeper than climate fear, the control issue is just a derived requirement to accomplish the change to BEV. Whole thing is just stupid; let the market drive the change. If the majority of people think climate catastrophe is real, then they'll drive the change organically through a market shift. I'm 100% for using carbon fuel resources as efficiently as possible. Hybrids, especially pure ICE series hybrids is the solution that wins for everyone. Camping onto just BEV as the solution is nearsighted.
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      05-20-2023, 11:25 AM   #2363
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Worried were going to get booted for politics... we should probably go PM...

I really think it's no deeper than climate fear, control issue is just a derived requirement to accomplish the change to BEV. Whole thing is just stupid, just let the market drive the change. If the majority of people think climate catastrophe is real, then they'll drive the change organically through a market shift. I'm 100% for using carbon fuel resources as efficiently as possible. Hybrids, especially pure ICE series hybrids is the solution that wins for everyone. Camping onto just BEV as the solution is nearsighted.
No worries but thereís nothing political about my statement. I just listed facts . Be no different if I said that, I pay taxes to government. Electric vehicles have been put in place by world governments. Thatís a fact. I doubt very seriously itís going to offend anyone here thatís for that. I know it doesnít offend anyone who is against it. But if you think we can get in trouble, Iíll just not come back to this thread again. I guess whether itís political or not is subjective.
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      05-20-2023, 01:17 PM   #2364
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Originally Posted by gblansten View Post
It is possible to get an EV because you want to try out a potentially really fun car. It is possible to also not trust government or desire the blunt hand of government to intervene in markets.
I completely agree with your first part. In fact, Iím going to do just that. Probably next year. The second part is tyrannical in my opinion. I wouldnít trust them with my bicycle.
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      05-20-2023, 02:09 PM   #2365
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I completely agree with your first part. In fact, Iím going to do just that. Probably next year. The second part is tyrannical in my opinion. I wouldnít trust them with my bicycle.
I agree with you on the latter. I meant to say that one can like certain EVs but not want government to force the situation.
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      05-21-2023, 06:53 AM   #2366
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I agree with you on the latter. I meant to say that one can like certain EVs but not want government to force the situation.
...or them fining car manufacturers heavily if they don't meet ev sell targets.
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      05-21-2023, 09:58 AM   #2367
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...or them fining car manufacturers heavily if they don't meet ev sell targets.
Exactly, if the consumer doesn't want to buy a product how will punishing the manufacture/dealer solve the problem?
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      05-21-2023, 10:31 AM   #2368
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Exactly, if the consumer doesn't want to buy a product how will punishing the manufacture/dealer solve the problem?
The intent is to make it very difficult (financially) for customers to purchase and manufacturers to produce anything other than an EV. Eventually we will start seeing massive taxes or other fines for owning and operating gas-powered vehicles. It will be interesting to see if it has the intended effect of getting people into EVs. I doubt governments and regulators truly understand how financially burdened most in this country (and others around the world) are.
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      05-21-2023, 10:55 AM   #2369
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The intent is to make it very difficult (financially) for customers to purchase and manufacturers to produce anything other than an EV. Eventually we will start seeing massive taxes or other fines for owning and operating gas-powered vehicles. It will be interesting to see if it has the intended effect of getting people into EVs. I doubt governments and regulators truly understand how financially burdened most in this country (and other around the world) are.
The gubments are on another planet when they leave their public speaking platforms, our ones don't even know what a spark plug is
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      05-21-2023, 10:55 AM   #2370
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The intent is to make it very difficult (financially) for customers to purchase and manufacturers to produce anything other than an EV. Eventually we will start seeing massive taxes or other fines for owning and operating gas-powered vehicles. It will be interesting to see if it has the intended effect of getting people into EVs. I doubt governments and regulators truly understand how financially burdened most in this country (and other around the world) are.
Which is an indication of extremely poor leadership. Sadly.
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      05-21-2023, 10:58 AM   #2371
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The gubments are on another planet when they leave their public speaking platforms, our ones don't even know what a spark plug is
The planet they are from is imaginary and made of make-believe...
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      05-21-2023, 11:52 AM   #2372
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Originally Posted by Cos270 View Post
The intent is to make it very difficult (financially) for customer to purchase and manufacturer to produce anything other than an EV. Eventually we will start seeing massive taxes or other fines for owning operating gas powered vehicles. Will be interesting to see if it has the intended effect of getting people into EVs. I doubt governments and regulators truly understand how financially burdened most in this country are.
Iím fairly certainly they know, all the more reason to squeeze more out of the common family.

Being middle class is expensiveÖ
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      05-22-2023, 10:09 AM   #2373
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Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP View Post
It will be that way for a while. And because elon has dropped the price on his models, jesus christ the dude is fucking smart so whatever small market other car makers have with their EV at their lower price point, here comes elon to the rescue by offering BETTER EV's at their lower price point as well LOL.
Tesla is lowering prices because they have competition to deal with now. What makes any Tesla a "BETTER EV" than the available competition?
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      05-22-2023, 10:26 AM   #2374
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Yes 2024 Blazer EV

Yes. I do still plan to get an EV. I have a reservation for a 2024 Chevy Blazer SS EV.

I hate buying premium gas. I love my BMW and the power but not the gas prices. I hate that the gas prices change daily. It feels like someone in the middle east could fart and the gas prices go up.

I have already installed an EV charger at my home.

Georgia (USA) gives provides a rebate of $250 for installing an EV charger and they have a rebate for night time charging the EV.
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      05-22-2023, 10:37 AM   #2375
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Yes. I do still plan to get an EV. I have a reservation for a 2024 Chevy Blazer SS EV.

I hate buying premium gas. I love my BMW and the power but not the gas prices. I hate that the gas prices change daily. It feels like someone in the middle east could fart and the gas prices go up.

I have already installed an EV charger at my home.

Georgia (USA) gives provides a rebate of $250 for installing an EV charger and they have a rebate for night time charging the EV.
What makes you think energy prices will not change on a daily basis moving forward? Iím shocked so many people are naive enough to think this cheap electricity will continue if more people start driving EVs.
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      05-22-2023, 11:04 AM   #2376
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What makes you think energy prices will not change on a daily basis moving forward? Iím shocked so many people are naive enough to think this cheap electricity will continue if more people start driving EVs.
Common sense dictates that as more people switch to EV's and in northern climates switch away from fossil fuel home heating the need to produce/deliver increasing amounts of electricity will drive the prices up. Further as more people move to EV's government will lose tax revenue at the pumps. Government loves their taxes, so that loss will have to be made up and I suspect electricity will be their target.
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