F1 2021: Austrian GP - Spielberg (June 27 + July 4)

[racerbruce]

Originally Posted by Ngilbe36

You understand that just because Ham was 39 seconds behind doesnt mean he was the closest car right? There were lapped cars right around him.

The video confirms a lapped car accelerating down the front straight at a significant speed and is approaching the child's burnout....as the child's car is sliding sideways and could have spun into the oncoming lapped car with an impact of appx 150-175 MPH....had the child's car experienced a mechanical condition during the "burnout party" he was throwing, or experienced a tire failure under extreme burnout conditions and on end-of-race tire conditions this could have been tragic.

For the adults in the room, this is why the FIA F1 Sporting Regulations in the section entitled DRIVING and specifically item 27.4 state this behavior is not welcomed at a demolition derby "race" and is certainly not allowed in F1.

[Bongoxxx]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

27.4:Can't do this,can't do that, ol' mother Hubbard would have had a ball reciting this especially when NO OTHER driver was there heheh

So you’re essentially saying “no harm no foul”?

If that’s the case why did BOT get a 3 grid penalty for spinning out in the pit…he didn’t harm anyone or hit anything…just created some nice flat spots for Pirelli to analyze

[243Racing]

Originally Posted by Bongoxxx

So you’re essentially saying “no harm no foul”?

If that’s the case why did BOT get a 3 grid penalty for spinning out in the pit…he didn’t harm anyone or hit anything…just created some nice flat spots for Pirelli to analyze

Obviously Bottas' violation was more egregious because there were unprotected personnel put at risk. But per the rules, Max should be penalized for this.

[NickyC]

I saw this yesterday of course and thought it was pretty egregious. You don’t stop your car totally in the middle of the straight and start doing burnouts, it’s absurd and unsafe.

After watching that video again however, did Max stop his car BEFORE the finish line then basically burnout through it? If so that goes beyond unsafe conduct and into the realm of unsportsmanlike showboating, rubbing it in your face. Is that what happened? I thought he already crossed the line when I saw it yesterday.

He should get some kind of penalty for this. Yes he’s excited to win at the home Grand Prix for the team and yes fans loved it but it really was too f’ing dangerous in that spot.

[inTgr8r]

No penalty for this.
It's Max the wonder boy the saviour of F1, what else would you expect.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Ngilbe36

You understand that just because Ham was 39 seconds behind doesnt mean he was the closest car right? There were lapped cars right around him.

There was no-one around or near him and it was perfectly safe unlike BOT's skid which put McLaren personnel at a slight risk and therefore landed BOT a penalty.

[Ngilbe36]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

There was no-one around or near him and it was perfectly safe unlike BOT's skid which put McLaren personnel at a slight risk and therefore landed BOT a penalty.

I say this as someone who was rooting for a RBR 1,3 yesterday. Youre wrong. Max was wrong.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Ngilbe36

I say this as someone who was rooting for a RBR 1,3 yesterday. Youre wrong. Max was wrong.

Max was perfectly in control which is why he only received a slap on the wrist as it was in the heat of celebration

[racerbruce]

Originally Posted by M5Rick View Post
There was no-one around or near him and it was perfectly safe....

This armchair assessment of the definition of motorsport safety does not align with professional motorsport....these type of interpretations is where disasters are created.

I attended an AMA Superbike race at Laguna Seca in Monterey CA and will never forget the life-altering tragedy that occurred after the race had just ended.

One of the riders that finished in the top 3 slowed down and stopped on-track at the blind exit of Turn 5....and began performing smoking tire burnouts....another rider came around Turn 5 and was not looking ahead as the race was over and was waving to fans to the sides and behind him....this rider collided with the rider performing the tire burnout at appx 50 MPH....I saw it....the sound of the impact was grotesque....the rider performing the burnouts suffered a career-ending and life-altering closed head wound injury.

Your uneducated, flippant comment that "it was perfectly safe" lacks the understanding of the danger of childish behavior on-track. The FIA F1 Sporting Regulations were created to prevent such disasters and to prevent the "well, I thought it was perfectly safe" comment after the unspeakable occurs.

[GuidoK]

I think every driver that has won multiple races has slowed down on the straight at his team pitbox as a celebration.
There's a video on youtube with HAM's wins so far and you can see him do that so many times when there was room for it (he has won a lot of races....)

So I dont see the problem.
Yes it's illegal, and yes every great winner has done it....multiple times....

[FormulaMMM]

Burnout was a dumb move from both Championship and safety perspectives.

And without going too Freud, I think it's a bad sign psychologically. Way too early for that sort of showboating. You're in a championship fight with HAM, this is not over. Why add fuel to HAM's (and Merc's) fire? They took note of that stunt. Reminds me of trash talking Jordan.

VER's mentality should be 100% business from lights out to checkered.

It took Nico everything he had, literally.

Related note, I've been impressed with HAM's composure and commentary on this losing streak. Congratulatory to RB, composed, focused. Saying he needs more from the car is accurate, didn't strike me as an excuse whatsoever. And they'll probably find a little something soon enough. Expect the momentum to shift back and forth as the season continues, should be an awesome battle.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by racerbruce

Originally Posted by M5Rick View Post
There was no-one around or near him and it was perfectly safe....

This armchair assessment of the definition of motorsport safety does not align with professional motorsport....these type of interpretations is where disasters are created.

I attended at an AMA Superbike race at Laguna Seca in Monterey CA and will never forget the life-altering tragedy that occurred after the race had just ended.

One of the riders that finished in the top 3 slowed down and stopped on-track at the blind exit of Turn 5....and began performing smoking tire burnouts....another rider came around Turn 5 and was not looking ahead as the race was over and was waving to fans to the sides and behind him....this rider collided with the rider performing the tire burnout at appx 50 MPH....I saw it....the sound of the impact was grotesque....the rider performing the burnouts suffered a career-ending and life-altering closed head wound injury.

Your uneducated, flippant comment that "it was perfectly safe" lacks the understanding of the danger of childish behavior on-track. The FIA F1 Sporting Regulations were created to prevent such disasters and to prevent the "well, I thought it was perfectly safe" comment after the unspeakable occurs.

Just because you attended a bike race and saw a near fatal bike crash does not make you an expert on what should and shouldn't be. Think you're being silly now comparing a huge race bike accident, with serious injury, to an under control tyre spin in F1.

[Bongoxxx]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

I think every driver that has won multiple races has slowed down on the straight at his team pitbox as a celebration.
There's a video on youtube with HAM's wins so far and you can see him do that so many times when there was room for it (he has won a lot of races....)

So I dont see the problem.
Yes it's illegal, and yes every great winner has done it....multiple times....

There is a huge difference to slowing down to wave to your team as you cross the line vs. coming to a stop and doing a burnout.

But if anyone other than MAX did this you, M & M would be calling for them to be banned, penalized, lose points etc.

[racerbruce]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Just because you attended a bike race and saw a near fatal bike crash does not make you an expert on what should and shouldn't be. Think you're being silly now comparing a huge race bike accident, with serious injury, to an under control tyre spin in F1.

Your uneducated, flippant comment that "it was perfectly safe" lacks the understanding of the danger of childish behavior on-track.

[Ngilbe36]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Just because you attended a bike race and saw a near fatal bike crash does not make you an expert on what should and shouldn't be. Think you're being silly now comparing a huge race bike accident, with serious injury, to an under control tyre spin in F1.

Skip to 1:19

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by Ngilbe36

Skip to 1:19

Yeah, in their encyclopedic rulebook, it's pretty crazy there aren't specific provisions against swerving, unnecessarily slowing, and other showboating behaviors before the finish line.

The only thing I can come up with is that it creates good F1 media highlight opportunities along with the fireworks, etc. So, they're disinclined to kill the behaviors for good. Can't tell me it's never been discussed with known events like your video.

[chuckthis]

Originally Posted by racerbruce

For those on this forum that choose to remain uneducated and uninformed, read this....the FIA needs to call out yesterday's childish behavior that violated FIA regulations and endangered others:

2021 FORMULA ONE SPORTING REGULATIONS
PUBLISHED ON 27 MAY 2020

27) DRIVING
27.1 The driver must drive the car alone and unaided.
27.2 Drivers must observe the provisions of the Code relating to driving behaviour on circuits at all times.
27.3 Drivers must make every reasonable effort to use the track at all times and may not deliberately leave the track without a justifiable reason.
Drivers will be judged to have left the track if no part of the car remains in contact with it and, for the avoidance of doubt, any white lines defining the track edges are considered to be part of the track but the kerbs are not.
Should a car leave the track the driver may re-join, however, this may only be d one when it is safe to do so and without gaining any lasting advantage. At the absolute discretion of the race director a driver may be given the opportunity to give back the whole of any advantage he gained by leaving the track.
27.4 At no time may a car be driven unnecessarily slowly, erratically or in a manner which could be deemed potentially dangerous to other drivers or any other person.

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/fi...20-05-27_0.pdf

This is great quote of regulation and certainly applies during the race. There is also regulation that covers end of the event (when checkered flag is waved) about reasonable celebration at the end of an event:

43.3 After receiving the end-of-race signal all cars must proceed on the circuit directly to the post- race parc fermé without any unnecessary delay, without receiving any object whatsoever and without any assistance (except that of the marshals if necessary).
An exception to Article 22.4 and to the above will be made for the winning driver who may perform an act of celebration before reaching parc fermé, provided any such act:
a) Is performed safely and does not endanger other drivers or any officials.
b) Does not call into question the legality of his car.
c) Does not delay the podium ceremony.

The safety of the other drivers was taken into consideration and while there was a potential incident, none was had and risk relatively low in the eyes of the stewards hence the warning.

For those stating it was before the line, the end of race signal had been waved. Race was deemed over at that point.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by chuckthis

For those stating it was before the line, the end of race signal had been waved. Race was deemed over at that point.

Very true.
I think this is also why the flag is waved before the pitboxes (and not at the starting line) so that the winning driver can slow down and drive at a slow pace past their team waving/celebrating.
They're also all the way to the side, off the racing line.
Lots of finishes end this way.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by racerbruce

Your uneducated, flippant comment that "it was perfectly safe" lacks the understanding of the danger of childish behavior on-track.

Go to 43.3 and educate yourself.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by chuckthis

This is great quote of regulation and certainly applies during the race. There is also regulation that covers end of the event (when checkered flag is waved) about reasonable celebration at the end of an event:

43.3 After receiving the end-of-race signal all cars must proceed on the circuit directly to the post- race parc fermé without any unnecessary delay, without receiving any object whatsoever and without any assistance (except that of the marshals if necessary).
An exception to Article 22.4 and to the above will be made for the winning driver who may perform an act of celebration before reaching parc fermé, provided any such act:
a) Is performed safely and does not endanger other drivers or any officials.
b) Does not call into question the legality of his car.
c) Does not delay the podium ceremony.

The safety of the other drivers was taken into consideration and while there was a potential incident, none was had and risk relatively low in the eyes of the stewards hence the warning.

For those stating it was before the line, the end of race signal had been waved. Race was deemed over at that point.

Thank you for clearing that up with the rule for after the race had finished,I figured there was something special for the race winner in terms of an act of celebration.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Ngilbe36

Skip to 1:19

The idiot behind wasn't watching where he was going.

[racerbruce]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Go to 43.3 and educate yourself.

The child's slowing with cars closing at 150 MPH and performing a burnout and the child's swerving car on end-of-race tires endangered other drivers.