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      03-03-2024, 11:08 AM   #23
Donatello.
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Originally Posted by dizz81 View Post
What I've noticed is that it depends on your drive mode. If you're in Tour then throttle response is soft and it's not overly "sensitive"

But if you want crisp throttle response then you can customize that in your "My Mode" or switch to V mode.

Love the customization ability and it allows people to have their choice how they want the car to react.
Same deal as the Hellcat drive modes.

I always run my trans & suspension in sport mode & traction on street. I do not track the car.

The CT5-V Blackwing is the only car that I would strongly consider selling my Hellcat for, but the nonsense pricing keeps me away
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      03-03-2024, 02:27 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by BlkGS View Post
Maybe Camaro is the exception to the rule, dunno, haven't driven the latest one. My experience comes from American SUVs, trucks, Mustangs, and Corvettes. Those all have throttles that are basically asleep. My TBSS also has a 6L V8, and even with bolts and a tune the throttle is more slow to react than my X5 M50i.

No bias here, just experience.
you know what I am talking about, weird how some people don't seem to notice but some of us do.
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      03-03-2024, 02:31 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by dizz81 View Post
You're considering two completely different engines. One is a 4L V8 that revs out to 8k+ RPMs with individual throttle bodies. The other is a 6L V8 with an additional supercharger on it that revs out to like 6k RPMs. The engine is fast (I've over revved so many times trying to rev match on downshifts). Would I say it's as fast as the NA BMW. Maybe. If it isn't I cant tell at all.

What I can tell you is that when you hit the button for rev matching and drop a gear the engine is already there. It takes a fraction of a second.
When you press on the gas, the needle moves.

My E92 M3 had an ESS 625 kit on it and it was the best car I ever owned hands down. It made me smile every single time I started it up and I would giggle every time I put my foot down and rowed through the gears. This car brings all those feelings back and then some. The biggest difference being twice as much torque and good lord does it make you giggle like a little kid when you smash that gas pedal. The E92 is still at the top of my list for the best car I ever owned (driving experience wise) but this Blackwing about to replace it. It's still too early to tell tho as I've only owned the Blackwing for 2 weeks and I had the E92 for 8yrs.

Funny story I took my girl out for her first ride the other day. I asked her "You ready?" and she's like "Yeah, hit it" So I hit it in 2nd gear, shifted 3rd (no lift shift is another amazing feature) and let off the gas about halfway thru 3rd. I looked over at her and she's like "HOLY SHIT I just peed a little"
I appreciate your patience with my annoyingly persistent questions on this
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      03-03-2024, 04:00 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by ///MPhatic View Post
Always loved these cars, but the size leaves them out for me. I'm a small guy and thus feel more comfortable in small cars. I have always preferred handling over power too, so the combination leaves a lot of cars out.

Still, I stop and stare every time I see one. Great cars.
The CT4 Blackwing might be right up your alley. I've heard so many good things and they describe it as exactly what you're looking for in a car.
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      03-03-2024, 04:03 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donatello. View Post
Same deal as the Hellcat drive modes.

I always run my trans & suspension in sport mode & traction on street. I do not track the car.

The CT5-V Blackwing is the only car that I would strongly consider selling my Hellcat for, but the nonsense pricing keeps me away
I had been searching a long time and it became a daily thing for me to check the car sites out to see what was hitting the dealerships. There are a lot of used CT5 Blackwings showing up now in the 80's and 90's (with light miles on them). I picked mine up for a seriously good price (in the 80's) considering all the options it has.
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      03-03-2024, 05:19 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dizz81 View Post
I had been searching a long time and it became a daily thing for me to check the car sites out to see what was hitting the dealerships. There are a lot of used CT5 Blackwings showing up now in the 80's and 90's (with light miles on them). I picked mine up for a seriously good price (in the 80's) considering all the options it has.
One just ended on BAT in the 80s that did not hit reserve because greedy seller lol.

I'm in no hurry to make any changes. I still love my Hellcat almost 6 years later.

The market continues to correct. Good thing for us consumers.
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      03-03-2024, 06:39 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dizz81 View Post
The CT4 Blackwing might be right up your alley. I've heard so many good things and they describe it as exactly what you're looking for in a car.
It's funny, nobody gave a damn about it when it was called the ATSV, but call it a blackwing and all.thensudden people think it's cool.

The real shame is it didn't get the real.blackwing V8.
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      03-04-2024, 05:42 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by dizz81 View Post
The CT4 Blackwing might be right up your alley. I've heard so many good things and they describe it as exactly what you're looking for in a car.
IMO, a M240 is a better option when it's $10-15k less. In fact, I'd take an RS3 over a CT4 BW, but if someone really likes the styling and that Magnetic Ride and slightly slower car, I can see getting the Caddy.
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      03-04-2024, 07:06 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Ugly Kar View Post
IMO, a M240 is a better option when it's $10-15k less. In fact, I'd take an RS3 over a CT4 BW, but if someone really likes the styling and that Magnetic Ride and slightly slower car, I can see getting the Caddy.
The 4 and 5 BW are weekend track cars that had to toe a line because they're under the Caddy brand. If someone is cross shopping a M240 vs a 4BW, outside of the manual on the 4BW, then they probably shouldn't be looking at the 4BW to begin with.
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      03-05-2024, 02:27 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugly Kar View Post
IMO, a M240 is a better option when it's $10-15k less. In fact, I'd take an RS3 over a CT4 BW, but if someone really likes the styling and that Magnetic Ride and slightly slower car, I can see getting the Caddy.
The CT4 is 6 seconds faster around VIR than an M240, 2 seconds faster than the M2, and 10 seconds faster than the RS3 on PZ4s.
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      03-06-2024, 05:01 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by kassad View Post
The CT4 is 6 seconds faster around VIR than an M240, 2 seconds faster than the M2, and 10 seconds faster than the RS3 on PZ4s.
With equal tires the RS3 and CT4 were equal. And C&D didn't test the M240, only the M240x drive with crappy tires.

Regardless, don't care, don't track as neither do most people who buy track oriented cars. Just like bikes, most R1's never get close to a track.
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      03-06-2024, 08:06 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dizz81 View Post
Hilariously true.



I recently purchased a CT5V Blackwing and couldn't be happier. The car is a monster. There is torque everywhere no matter the gear you're in.

I bought the car in Texas and drove it back to California. Spent 1500 miles getting familiar with it and man was it a blast. Every time I started it up I giggled. I love sitting in the car and feeling the car shimmy.
The manual is sooo smooth and shifts effortlessly.
Acceleration is mind-blowing. I had to consciously monitor my speed because I found myself going a bit faster than I expected. I've since gotten familiar with the engine noise/RPM's so it's much easier to feel what speed I'm at.
The Magnetic ride is amazing. Driving across 3 states was EASY.
Mine has the upgraded semi-aniline seats with the carbon fiber backs. Between the suspension and the seats I literally never get tired or fatigued sitting or driving. It's insanely comfy.
Steering is precise and like every other car, you can adjust how much steering feel you want.
Mine has CCB's and these things are ridiculously good at stopping this car. Great pedal feel, I can modulate stopping the car so easily. You can adjust how much pedal feel you want as well, which is nice because at the lowest setting, it's nice and easy but you switch to track mode and it'll rip your face off when you press the brake pedal.

No car is perfect, no matter what anyone says. The car definitely has some faults.

The car is tail-happy but that's expected with the power numbers. This is tail-happy but because of a suspension, E-LSD, and PTM, it's super predictable. I've gotten the back end to step out a few times and each time I'm like "Oh that's what I figured it would do" not "Oh shit well that was scary"
My 18 M4ZCP was super tail happy and it scared the shit out of me because I couldn't tell what it was going to do and it did it at the most random of times.

Gas mileage sucks unless you're cruising on the highway. Around town you're going to get shitty mpg, but those miles are all very enjoyable lol. I don't expect this to get hybrid mpg, I know what I have and already wrapped my mind around the mpg long before I bought this. The pictures I include show what I started at and ended at with my drive from Texas to California. Pretty much 80mph consistent the whole way.

Switching between drive modes can be annoying because there is a graphical dance each time you hit the button. Doesn't affect me much as I usually either have "My Mode" selected or I hit the V button (basically my settings turned up a few notches). What does annoy me is when I switch out of V mode, it defaults back to "Tour" mode and then I have to switch to My Mode. That is annoying. I wish I could change that somehow, maybe when they get a tuner figured out, it'll be available (like bimmercode).


I've owned this car a little over a two weeks now and I've put just shy of 2500 miles on it. She mostly sits in the garage unless I have to make a run to the store or I want to drive her. Which is proving a difficult thing not to do. Honestly it's addicting.

Attached the spec sheet and a pic just for fun.
Beautiful car! That's exactly the same spec I was trying to order back in 2021 - 2022 when I was on the waiting list for an allocation. Same colors and options. Unfortunately, GM was having a hard time getting carbon fiber at the time, and allocations with the carbon fiber options were rare. After waiting for almost a year, I decided to look at BMW. I ordered my '23 M5C and had it within 3 months or so. About 6 months ago, my co-worker let me drive his 5BW and it was fun and the exhaust note is amazing. However, I feel the M5 is in a different class, and I am very glad I got the M5. Not trying to take away from the BW, because the BW is still an amazing car.
I see that your BW is a '22, was it used or are you the first owner?
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      03-06-2024, 08:29 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugly Kar View Post
With equal tires the RS3 and CT4 were equal. And C&D didn't test the M240, only the M240x drive with crappy tires.
RS3 - 2:52.9 - Pirelli Trofeo R, UTGQ 60
M3 Comp - 2:53.5 - Michelin PS4S, UTGQ 300
CT4 BW - 2:54.6 - Michelin PS4S, UTGQ 300
M2 - 2:56.9 - Michelin PS4S, UTGQ 300
Civic Type R - 2:58.8, Michelin PSC2, UTGQ 240
M240xi - 3:00.6 - Michelin PS4S, UTGQ 300
RS3 - 3:01.9 - Pirelli P4Z, UTGQ 220

The m240 and RS3 aren't equals, they arent even in the same class as the M2 and CT4 BW at the track.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugly Kar View Post
Regardless, don't care, don't track as neither do most people who buy track oriented cars.
Also Ugly Kar:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugly Kar View Post
I'd take an RS3 over a CT4 BW, but if someone really likes the styling and that Magnetic Ride and slightly slower car, I can see getting the Caddy
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      03-06-2024, 09:53 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kassad View Post
Also Ugly Kar:
It would seem logical that he's talking about 0-60 and 1/4 times.
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      03-06-2024, 10:55 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by strohw View Post
It would seem logical that he's talking about 0-60 and 1/4 times.
Thank you! the M240xi is faster than the CT4 and was $15k more when I shopped. Yes, they are not equals. The BMW offers much more for the $, is more refined, better built and more reliable all for $15k less.

I don't care if one is 5 sec faster around a track. The Mustang mach 1 was faster around a track. If that's all you care about get a Caterham. The OP didn't say anything about tracking it and it's silly to me how people brag about having a faster track car when their car never get's close to a track. You can use acceleration on every drive.
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      03-06-2024, 11:49 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugly Kar View Post
Thank you! the M240xi is faster than the CT4 and was $15k more when I shopped. Yes, they are not equals. The BMW offers much more for the $, is more refined, better built and more reliable all for $15k less.

I don't care if one is 5 sec faster around a track. The Mustang mach 1 was faster around a track. If that's all you care about get a Caterham. The OP didn't say anything about tracking it and it's silly to me how people brag about having a faster track car when their car never get's close to a track. You can use acceleration on every drive.
This is dumb. Yeah, turbo AWD will always beat off the line. The reason the CT4 is faster is it's putting down power out of turns, turning faster, etc. You want to take that curve and enjoy what it feels like to have superior chassis dynamics? CT4. M240 isn't bad, but GM knows how to nail driving dynamics these days and this is why it's faster. A Tesla is even better for you, faster in a straight line.
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      03-06-2024, 12:07 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RM7 View Post
This is dumb. Yeah, turbo AWD will always beat off the line. The reason the CT4 is faster is it's putting down power out of turns, turning faster, etc. You want to take that curve and enjoy what it feels like to have superior chassis dynamics? CT4. M240 isn't bad, but GM knows how to nail driving dynamics these days and this is why it's faster. A Tesla is even better for you, faster in a straight line.
Man that bias you spoke of is coming on strong in this thread lol.
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      03-06-2024, 01:44 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkishM5C View Post
Beautiful car! That's exactly the same spec I was trying to order back in 2021 - 2022 when I was on the waiting list for an allocation. Same colors and options. Unfortunately, GM was having a hard time getting carbon fiber at the time, and allocations with the carbon fiber options were rare. After waiting for almost a year, I decided to look at BMW. I ordered my '23 M5C and had it within 3 months or so. About 6 months ago, my co-worker let me drive his 5BW and it was fun and the exhaust note is amazing. However, I feel the M5 is in a different class, and I am very glad I got the M5. Not trying to take away from the BW, because the BW is still an amazing car.
I see that your BW is a '22, was it used or are you the first owner?
I bought it used. I wish I was the first owner so I could have gone to the driving academy lol.

I wanted back in a manual V8 and something that wasn't completely stuffed with electronics, gizmos and big screens. The BW was just the right ticket at the right price. The M5C price is just untouchable.
Glad to hear you're happy with your M5C tho. Hope you drive the hell out of it and don't keep it parked in the garage
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      03-06-2024, 02:00 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RM7 View Post
This is dumb. Yeah, turbo AWD will always beat off the line. The reason the CT4 is faster is it's putting down power out of turns, turning faster, etc. You want to take that curve and enjoy what it feels like to have superior chassis dynamics? CT4. M240 isn't bad, but GM knows how to nail driving dynamics these days and this is why it's faster. A Tesla is even better for you, faster in a straight line.
This is what's really dumb. A Mazda Miata or Toyota GR86 feel great and great driving dynamics, they don't have to be faster around a track to be more fun. A fing Telsa better for me is an ignorant statement. I don't care how fast it is it isn't fun. I've driven a couple of really fast MB's that were boring as hell to drive. I suppose you know what toothpaste is best for me too.
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