Top issues

[RobbiZ4]

Originally Posted by BugsBunny

Have you replaced the rear vents ? Without removing the rear bumper ?

AFAIK that's not possible.

• Replace the salmon relays every 5-8 years, the production date is printed on the left side as WWYY. These parts can stop the roof movement as well as kill your hydraulic pump due to a melting contact

• The trunk vents on both sides behind the bumper seem to be the gates for the water, should be replaced after 8-10 years. All 2009er I've looked at had this issue

• The foam below the hydraulic pump is water sucking instead of water repelling, should be replaced and kept dry

• The foam below the hydraulic pump doesn't stop burning

We are discussing about these topics in the German ZRoadster forum as well:
https://translate.google.com/transla...umpe.136284%2F

[bryanhoag]

I have developed an issue recently where sometimes my top needs a little help to complete the opening process. The glass stacks on top of the roof and then the roof lifts slightly and stops. I push up on it a little from inside and it starts going again and completes the rest of the process without issue.

Sometimes the top opens fine without my help. Sometimes the roof opens a few inches and I push it... sometimes it barely opens at all (but unlocks) and I push it.

Except for the initial hang up, the rest of the process seems to move at normal speed, or at least the same speed as it always has. Have never had any issue with the top closing.

Would appreciate any input. Hydraulic cables that I can see appear intact and without evidence of wear. No hydraulic fluid leaking. Pump in the trunk appears to be dry and in good condition cosmetically (no corrosion, etc).

[RobbiZ4]

Originally Posted by bryanhoag

I have developed an issue recently where sometimes my top needs a little help to complete the opening process. [...]
Hydraulic cables that I can see appear intact and without evidence of wear.

Unfortunately these are the symptoms of a broken wire in the roof harness in the non visible area of the back shelf. Mayb on the left side (2 wires) or on the right side (2x2 wires).

Well, pushing the roof is not the best option to get it repaired.

[bryanhoag]

Well that looks bad... RobbiZ4 , I'm assuming you live in Germany...

I'd really like to find someone to do a whole top system refurbish (pump refurbish, lines, wires, etc). But, it seems experts on these tops are next to nil.

You in Germany... TopHydraulics in Oregon.

[RobbiZ4]

Originally Posted by bryanhoag

Well that looks bad... RobbiZ4 , I'm assuming you live in Germany...

I'd really like to find someone to do a whole top system refurbish (pump refurbish, lines, wires, etc). But, it seems experts on these tops are next to nil.

You in Germany... TopHydraulics in Oregon.

Good Morning, it's 8:30 in Germany right now.
Why do you want to refurbish "everything, i.e. the hydraulic pump? If it works fine there is no reason to touch it. The only issue is water in the trunk and in the foam.

The most important step to avoid damages is to replace the two salmon relays next to the pump.

[bryanhoag]

I actually just replaced the salmon relays recently... so at least that part is done!

I guess "refurbish everything" is an overstatement. What I really mean is that I want someone who knows what they're looking at to evaluate the entirety of the system and repair any areas that need fixing. Maybe for me its just the roof wires, and everything else is fine.

[bryanhoag]

Are there any forums detailing the wire replacement process?

[RobbiZ4]

Originally Posted by bryanhoag

I actually just replaced the salmon relays recently... so at least that part is done!

I guess "refurbish everything" is an overstatement. What I really mean is that I want someone who knows what they're looking at to evaluate the entirety of the system and repair any areas that need fixing. Maybe for me its just the roof wires, and everything else is fine.

My experience is, that in the age of 8-10 the wires will break, as of 10 the hydraulic lines wil break at the same location in the roof shell. The pump get's only damaged if the trunk is not kept dry OR the slamon relays are elder than 5 years.
Just keep an eye on it regularly, even if the car is parked in a garage.

There is no detailled description available as it needs a good understanding of the roof folding process.

[bryanhoag]

Do you know anyone in the US who repairs these systems?

[RobbiZ4]

Originally Posted by bryanhoag

Do you know anyone in the US who repairs these systems?

Maybe NoQuarter has an idea.

[bryanhoag]

Haha... what's your price, Robbi? Flight, lodging, material and labor

[RobbiZ4]

Well, repairing all 4 wires taktes about 4 to 6 hours. No additional material is required.

BMW normally won't repair, they replace the whole harness including the hydraulic lines. This part costs AFAIK about 1200$ in the States, about 1.000€ in Germany.

[bryanhoag]

Robbi... do you know any of the part numbers to the harness components?

Wires alone and/or full harness with hydraulic lines?

To all... anyone have experience getting their top repaired at a dealership in NC/SC/VA or at least East Coast/Southeast?

[bryanhoag]

Maybe I can make this a bit easier. On the attached photo, which parts do you think I need, and how many of each?

Thanks!

[BuddhaPilot]

Originally Posted by bryanhoag

I have developed an issue recently where sometimes my top needs a little help to complete the opening process. The glass stacks on top of the roof and then the roof lifts slightly and stops. I push up on it a little from inside and it starts going again and completes the rest of the process without issue.

Sometimes the top opens fine without my help. Sometimes the roof opens a few inches and I push it... sometimes it barely opens at all (but unlocks) and I push it.

Except for the initial hang up, the rest of the process seems to move at normal speed, or at least the same speed as it always has. Have never had any issue with the top closing.

Would appreciate any input. Hydraulic cables that I can see appear intact and without evidence of wear. No hydraulic fluid leaking. Pump in the trunk appears to be dry and in good condition cosmetically (no corrosion, etc).

Bryan,

Have you taken it to a dealer or an independent who has a BMW code reader? The pump and various relays/switches throw codes and it may narrow down your problem. My top was slow opening and would stutter as it retracted, but closed normally. I thought it most likely a wiring harness or hall sensor issue since it seemed like the process was repeatedly stopping/starting during retraction. An independent shop read the codes and said it was showing a continuous pump overheat. $620 later, my top works perfectly. Might be worth an hour of labor to get a more finite diagnosis.

[bryanhoag]

BuddhaPilot Thanks for your message. No, I have not had time to yet. I reached out to an independent shop... hopefully I'll hear from them tomorrow.

I have a Carly OBD dongle. Should that show the codes? Or are the BMW code readers that dealers/independent shops have necessary to pinpoint the issue?

[RobbiZ4]

The harness is part no. 5 ( 54377311084 ):
http://www.bmw-etk.info/parts-catalo...068/54/54_0402

It is one single piece for both sides of the car, has a lenght of in total about 3m.:

Carly can read fault codes of the CTM, but not every fault is documented. And - hall sensors will never die! Only the wires will break. If there is a fault code mentioning hall sensor or microswitch, look for broken wires.

@BuddhaPilot
The pump will only die if there was water in the trunk. And if so, it doesn't work at all.

[BuddhaPilot]

Originally Posted by RobbiZ4

The harness is part no. 5, it is one single piece for both sides of the car and it looks like this:


Attachment 2089260


The marked parts are the connectors in the roof shell, which mostyl will break.

Attachment 2089261


Carly can read fault codes of the CTM, but not every fault is documented. And - hall sensors will never die! Only the wires will break. If there is a fault code mentioning hall sensor or microswitch, look for broken wires.

@BuddhaPilot
The pump will only die if there was water in the trunk. And if so, it doesn't work at all.

In between I've repaired about 2 dozens of roofs.

I did have water in the trunk, but the pump didn't completely die. I've replaced the vents behind the bumper as well and will never take this car through a car wash again that does an underbody wash. That's probably what caused it as I had no leaks from any of the trunk or body seals.

[bryanhoag]

Thanks for the info, guys! And, Robbi, thanks so much for the photos.

What are Parts 6 and 7 on the diagram? They look like hydraulic lines as well. Are those prone to breaking, or just Part 5?

[Mayhem]

Originally Posted by BuddhaPilot

I did have water in the trunk, but the pump didn't completely die. I've replaced the vents behind the bumper as well and will never take this car through a car wash again that does an underbody wash. That's probably what caused it as I had no leaks from any of the trunk or body seals.

My trunk had water also, and the hydro motor didn’t completely die. The opening and closing just stuttered and sometimes required an assist. Having the hydro motor rebuilt fixed my issues 100%. I’ve taken proactive steps so that this will never happen again, and right.. no more car washes for me.

[RobbiZ4]

Originally Posted by bryanhoag

Thanks for the info, guys! And, Robbi, thanks so much for the photos.

What are Parts 6 and 7 on the diagram? They look like hydraulic lines as well. Are those prone to breaking, or just Part 5?

Correct, these are hydraulic lines. But part no 5 has everything required for a complete replacement.

In addition, you need a set of roof shell screws 54377220536 and some roof clips 54377220698 and some dozen of zip ties.

[bryanhoag]

Originally Posted by RobbiZ4

Correct, these are hydraulic lines. But part no 5 has everything required for a complete replacement.

In addition, you need a set of roof shell screws 54377220536 and some roof clips 54377220698 and some dozen of zip ties.

Great! Thanks for the info.

Still debating what to do. I raised and lowered the top multiple times yesterday and never had the issue. Tried to make a video so I'd be able to show a dealership or independent shop what is happening (in case I couldn't reproduce it on site for them). I guess I can just wait until it becomes more of an issue. Thankfully, I've never had any issue putting it up.