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03-30-2021, 05:26 PM | #1 | ||
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AMG Reveals New Details on E-Performance V8 with 800+HP + New I4 and EV Powertrains
Mercedes-AMG E Performance Is The Future For GT 4-Door, C-Class
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03-30-2021, 08:41 PM | #2 |
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That looks like a real bad place for the battery in the hybrid...
Then again, that looks like the 2 Grand Coupe abomination, so it all kind of fits I guess...
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Last edited by RM7; 03-30-2021 at 09:55 PM.. |
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03-30-2021, 09:37 PM | #3 |
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The amount of cutting-edge engineering going into these vehicles is staggering. I am sure they will deliver incredible performance.
I feel that MB will heavily use their F1 success to really market these cars hard to try and overcome people's apprehension of the new C63 being a 4 cylinder engine. |
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03-30-2021, 10:06 PM | #4 | |
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Basically the general public simply values the badge, image, and straight line acceleration (for bragging rights as nobody ever floors these cars). And yes I don't doubt it will be objectively a great product. Mercedes is king of F1, if they are utilizing that tech this car will be legit. However nobody can spin its rumoured 4500 lb curb weight as something positive to me. It makes the new M3/4 look like a Miata in comparison.
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03-30-2021, 11:35 PM | #5 |
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Well I came super close to pulling the trigger on a new CLA45 that comes equipped with the hand-built M139 engine which is a gem.
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03-31-2021, 06:32 AM | #6 |
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It remains somewhat baffling that they have no apparent plans to include their new M256 I6 engine family in their performance product lineup. It leaves an obvious hole - 400hp ICE and 600hp ICE, but no 500hp ICE. They went through the trouble to develop the engine only to leave it hamstrung at 430hp, and then went ahead and pushed their four cylinder beyond that - to within an inch of its life, it would appear. Sure, it’s more difficult to package an I6, but that should not have been a surprise. It’s not like they hadn’t ever built an I6 engine before. And with the beltless design, the new one is very compact.
This would seem to leave them vulnerable to BMW (and others) who can bring performance PHEV setups with six cylinder engines to market that make far more than the 440hp of their M139 I4 (before you get to the electric motor side). Obviously Mercedes still has the V8, but so does everyone else. And at this point, no one is putting a V8 in smaller vehicles anymore, PHEV or otherwise. By contrast, there is still plenty of time left for six cylinder engines in such vehicles. |
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03-31-2021, 06:55 AM | #7 | |
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The only thing I can think of is that an I6 would just be simply too heavy for a "medium" sized performance car. P.S. I'm also curious about electric turbos. I know there's a few floating around, but I figured they would have been more mainstream by now. It kind of went quiet on that front.
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03-31-2021, 07:28 AM | #8 | |
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03-31-2021, 07:42 AM | #9 |
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Why is the belt driven alternator a highlight?
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03-31-2021, 07:45 AM | #10 | |
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Furthermore, even if we ignore the C family of vehicles, there is still the E and S families. BMW has the M*50e PHEV setup coming, and we expect over 500hp (with the potential to evolve to 600hp or more). Mercedes has the existing *53 non-hybrid I6 setup today, and if rumors hold, a *53e setup featuring a variant of this new M139 PHEV arrangement. So we are going to have larger vehicles like the E53e, GLE 53e, reportedly even SL53e, using a buzzy four cylinder? All while completely skipping the obvious possibility for an M256 PHEV? It just seems like a very peculiar strategy. |
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03-31-2021, 08:09 AM | #11 | |
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From Daimler's Press Release:
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03-31-2021, 09:05 AM | #12 |
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Article is worth a full read and consideration before summarily dismissing because 4 cylinder.
Probably thanks to F1 fandom and never being that keen on turbocharged engines (apart from weight penalty, see no reason to favor turbo over hybrid), I'm sold on this tech. Enjoy the V8 in the C63 S everyday, but do I think the AMG F1 engineers could do better with 4 fewer cylinders & hybrid tech? Honestly, yup. They've been mastering that exact combination since 2013. If they want to really stick a knife in M -- AMG F1 car revs to 14,000. Project One revs to 11,000. M139 in entry AMG's revs to 7,200. C63 revs to..... Powertrain could potentially deliver the very best historical characteristics of both AMG and M -- torque, responsiveness, and high revs. Would be the ideal recipe to offset the loss of the V8.
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03-31-2021, 02:13 PM | #14 | |
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All with the character of a hybrid 4. Assuming some amount of time it is running on just the electric motor. If the goal is to convince me to just buy an EV (battery pack, multi electric motors, most with no transmission), it is working.
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03-31-2021, 04:03 PM | #15 |
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Nice kW/l ratio with the 2.0 four cylinder.
Good to see a north-south installation in the C-Class. Let’s see what initial vehicle quality and medium-long term reliability are like on this new powertrain. Mercedes is 5 or 6 notches down from their competitors in these areas. |
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03-31-2021, 04:08 PM | #16 |
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I can just imagine if BMW claimed the next M3/M4 was going to be 4-cyl FWD with electric driven rear wheels. There would be a meltdown at this forum of epic proportions. The best part about AMG's is the V8 and without that I'm not sure about the appeal.
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03-31-2021, 04:32 PM | #17 |
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AMG have spent 8+ years and billions developing and mastering this powertrain tech, they're the best in the world at it. I think you guys better hang on. I doubt they've done all of that to sell a couple hundred Project Ones.
They have the knowhow to pull an absolute blinder here. By some margin it could be the most exciting and engaging powertrain in the class. If I'm not mistaken the F1 rev limit increases to 18,000 for next year. Last time a certain German manufacturer was involved in F1 we got a pretty spectacular engine out of the deal. You're pissing off Toto.
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03-31-2021, 06:13 PM | #18 | |
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At the end of the day, I'm just not a fan of 4 cylinders in general, so it doesn't matter how fast it is or how high it revs. Unpopular opinion: The S2000 has a higher redline than my Z4M, but I personally prefer the S54's character. At the end of the day, the performance of the car is not the only thing that matters.
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03-31-2021, 07:26 PM | #19 |
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03-31-2021, 07:42 PM | #20 |
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though neither is the engine type ... I love V8s, but I'll keep an open mind about the vehicle. I've driven a few vehicles with real soul and engine type is not a common factor.
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03-31-2021, 07:55 PM | #21 |
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03-31-2021, 09:03 PM | #22 | |
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LOL about the M240 comment. My biggest frustration is when non-car people ask me about the V6 under my hood... |
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