F1 2023: US GP - Miami (May 7)

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by 3798j

I've always had the belief you can't make someone a motorsport fan. The sport's appeal is narrow and its nuances aren't easily grasped or appreciated. I think because many want an experience that mirrors watching a suspenseful movie there's disappointment because motorsport outcomes can't be scripted (even though we know it's been tried). As a result, keeping the fringe fan engaged just isn't going to happen. Over the years of taking someone new to a F1 race, I've seen that "is that all there is" look on there face. Stefano Domenicali has been charged by Liberty to make Formula 1 more than it is...I see it as an impossible task.

IMHO the epic rivalry between F1 legend Hamilton and challenger Verstappen during the 2021 F1 season attracted a lot of attention, also in the US. No matter the outcome, no matter who you were rooting for: the 2021 F1 season was one of the very best ever, with races ending as cliffhangers: "what's gonna happen next race ?". The tension was palpable. Too bad that it ended in complete controversy, confusion and drama. But what an incredible rollercoaster it was.

Close rivalries with lots of close combat battles are a good thing for a sport.

Extended review: "The Eight And One - Verstappen vs Hamilton F1 2021 Season Review" (1:23:47):

Brief review: "F1 2021: An Unforgettable Season" (shown during the F1 2021 awards ceremony) (08:06):

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by Mr Pete

Well, the other sports you mentioned, you can obviously see what’s going on along the entire surface that the sport is taking place. In Motorsports, you’ll really only see action at whichever turn you’re spectating at. So can’t really compare.

I personally enjoy IMSA, WEC and Indy racing events more than F1. Way more wheel to wheel action. F1, I’ll watch from home haha. Though I went to COTA/US GP last year and they put on a great event there. One of my all time favorite circuits.

It's just the nature of the sport I suppose, I just get the impression F1 overhypes and over-charges for these events relative to the perceived entertainment value. Miami definitely seems like one of the most shameless cash grab races.

The NFL doesn't translate well in real life either. I've gone to LA Rams games in the season ticket holder section and it still feels too far from the action. Also gone in the 100 level, but the field is just too large to watch the game closely. NFL is best on TV

I will still certainly attend at least one F1 race eventually though, likely at some European circuit. It's just something you gotta do, like catching a Knicks game at the Garden or Lakers at Staples center.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by Artemis

IMHO the epic rivalry between F1 legend Hamilton and challenger Verstappen during the 2021 F1 season attracted a lot of attention, also in the US. No matter the outcome, no matter who you were rooting for: the 2021 F1 season was one of the very best ever, with races ending as cliffhangers: "what's gonna happen next race ?". The tension was palpable. Too bad that it ended in complete controversy, confusion and drama. But what an incredible rollercoaster it was.

True. In many ways it compared to 1989 (Senna/Prost), including the FIA controversy (Balestre).

And of course some Schumi/Hill controversies/battles, Schumi/Hakkinen, Schumi and everyone

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by EdM5

I was wondering. Is America really embracing F1 or is it just FIA Propaganda?

After all these years being an irrelevant sport in the US, it's hard to imagine that a Netflix series changed all that.

Thoughts from our US forum members?

I have attended every USGP at COTA. I can assure you attendance the last few years has greatly increased. Netflix has blown up the sport. I have friends/family/coworkers all now following the sport. 5+ years ago they didn't know who Alonso even was. Last year COTA was insane, just walking around the track feels like being in hoards of zombies. In the early years it was busy, but nothing like it is now. 2021 they had record attendance of 400k, last year they broke it with 440k for the weekend.

[Artemis]

Alonso being Alonso:

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/a...L0qakNI5a.html

His 'multi-tasking' explanation:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/pa8YKUJSt5o

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Alonso being Alonso:

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/a...L0qakNI5a.html

His 'multi-tasking' explanation:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/pa8YKUJSt5o

Alonso takes multi-tasking to a new meaning.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Artemis

IMHO the epic rivalry between F1 legend Hamilton and challenger Verstappen during the 2021 F1 season attracted a lot of attention, also in the US. No matter the outcome, no matter who you were rooting for: the 2021 F1 season was one of the very best ever, with races ending as cliffhangers: "what's gonna happen next race ?". The tension was palpable. Too bad that it ended in complete controversy, confusion and drama. But what an incredible rollercoaster it was.

Close rivalries with lots of close combat battles are a good thing for a sport.

Extended review: "The Eight And One - Verstappen vs Hamilton F1 2021 Season Review" (1:23:47):

Brief review: "F1 2021: An Unforgettable Season" (shown during the F1 2021 awards ceremony) (08:06):

Good write up on the '21 season and the best bit of the vid is at the end ''MV, you are the World Champion !''

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Alonso takes multi-tasking to a new meaning.

From a Dutch article :

LEW : We must stop Red Bull with new regulations => https://www.gpfans.com/nl/f1-nieuws/...els-aanpassen/

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

From a Dutch article :

LEW : We must stop Red Bull with new regulations => https://www.gpfans.com/nl/f1-nieuws/...els-aanpassen/

With his pal wolfy they haven't got their ex Merc woman working undercover for them anymore so more moans from them than Victor Meldrew.

[Artemis]

Imagine that a new rule would be introduced to give backmarkers a competititve advantage: no DRS for the first, say 6, drivers in the WDC classification. This means that the WDC classification, race-by-race, determines who gets (no) DRS during the next race. Hypothesis if applied: no DRS for Verstappen, Perez, Alonso, Hamilton, Sainz and Russell during the Imola F1 race. DRS for Leclerc (currently P7 in the WDC) and the rest. Imagine that Leclerc's performance at Imola gets him back into the top 6 of the WDC at the expense of Sainz dropping back to P7, Leclerc will get no DRS at Monaco, unlike Sainz. And so on.

Better than no DRS for the top 6 of the qualies.

What do you think of this 'handicap' system ?

I believe to remember (but could be mistaken for propoposals that never materialized) that in some rallye racing formulas 'handicap' experiments for the best happened: reverse grid during a next race (start position disadvantage) or the winners getting extra weight on board of their cars (weight disadvantage).

'Reverse grid' was thought about in the recent past (possibly because of the Mercedes dominance), but converted into the 'Sprint' formula:
https://flowracers.com/blog/f1-reverse-grid/

[NYG]

Had an amazing time at the race!

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Imagine that a new rule would be introduced to give backmarkers a competititve advantage: no DRS for the first, say 6, drivers in the WDC classification. This means that the WDC classification, race-by-race, determines who gets (no) DRS during the next race. Hypothesis if applied: no DRS for Verstappen, Perez, Alonso, Hamilton, Sainz and Russell during the Imola F1 race. DRS for Leclerc (currently P7 in the WDC) and the rest. Imagine that Leclerc's performance at Imola gets him back into the top 6 of the WDC at the expense of Sainz dropping back to P7, Leclerc will get no DRS at Monaco, unlike Sainz. And so on.

Better than no DRS for the top 6 of the qualies.

What do you think of this 'handicap' system ?

I believe to remember (but could be mistaken for propoposals that never materialized) that in some rallye racing formulas 'handicap' experiments for the best happened: reverse grid during a next race (start position disadvantage) or the winners getting extra weight on board of their cars (weight disadvantage).

'Reverse grid' was thought about in the recent past (possibly because of the Mercedes dominance), but converted into the 'Sprint' formula:
https://flowracers.com/blog/f1-reverse-grid/

It'll make no difference to Max, he can get past reasonably without the wing open.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by NYG

Had an amazing time at the race!

Great seat where you got to see Max passing Checo

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by Artemis

or the winners getting extra weight on board of their cars (weight disadvantage).

DTM also had this for some time but ditched that system

Of course F1 already has some sort of performance penalty system and that is that the last year top teams get less windtunnel and CFD modelling time than lesser teams.
For the rest it's up to the FIA to make a set of rules which are clear and to look upon that teams follow those rules in a way that they were intended.

To some extend a performance penalty system makes sense, but now with the budget caps everyone has more or less an equal chance.
At some point teams and drivers should be rewarded if they produce better results, if all chances are equal (and I think with the budget cap that goes a long way).
That is one of the base rules of sports. We want the best to win.
I mean I've never heard of a marathon athlete getting some lead in his/her shoes because he/she won the previous event

[M5Rick]

BTCC cars had success ballast penalties and that was ditched in favour of how many times they can use hybrid boost per lap now. The more a team car wins the more it's reduced for the next race with the runners up having theirs reduced on a sliding scale.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by NYG

Had an amazing time at the race!

Awesome ! Thanks for sharing my friend

[Killed by Death]

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Imagine that a new rule would be introduced to give backmarkers a competititve advantage: no DRS for the first, say 6, drivers in the WDC classification. This means that the WDC classification, race-by-race, determines who gets (no) DRS during the next race. Hypothesis if applied: no DRS for Verstappen, Perez, Alonso, Hamilton, Sainz and Russell during the Imola F1 race. DRS for Leclerc (currently P7 in the WDC) and the rest. Imagine that Leclerc's performance at Imola gets him back into the top 6 of the WDC at the expense of Sainz dropping back to P7, Leclerc will get no DRS at Monaco, unlike Sainz. And so on.

Better than no DRS for the top 6 of the qualies.

What do you think of this 'handicap' system ?

I believe to remember (but could be mistaken for propoposals that never materialized) that in some rallye racing formulas 'handicap' experiments for the best happened: reverse grid during a next race (start position disadvantage) or the winners getting extra weight on board of their cars (weight disadvantage).

'Reverse grid' was thought about in the recent past (possibly because of the Mercedes dominance), but converted into the 'Sprint' formula:
https://flowracers.com/blog/f1-reverse-grid/

You could introduce a handicap system but then you’re indirectly admitting there is a flaw with the regulations. Either you “reward” the best manufacturer by allowing them to dominate or you go back and tweak your regulations. The fact that only 1 manufacturer/team got it right and the cost cap doesn’t allow any team to really catch up takes away from the sport. We’re only 5 races and not much to really look forward to with regards to both championships.

This isn’t the same when Mercedes was dominating. You could at least spend money if you really wanted to regardless if it was detrimental to make a difference, hell you could build a new car and it would make the season a lot more interesting.

I’m not saying to remove the cap, but if this is what it’s going to be moving forward, prepare to see one team dominate in between regulation changes.

[M5Rick]

Apart from introducing silly success penalties Horner has chuckled at some other teams for basically screwing their car developments. Merc and Ferrari could do worse than come up with something that is a match for the RB effort rather than constantly moaning like schoolchildren, McLaren once a challellenger surprisingly has got completely lost
That said I think Ralf Schumacher has got it wrong for a change blaming the two Ferrari drivers for underperforming, the 23 is understeering and oversteering at the same time, Fred has said a new development programme is being introduced building up to Barcelona but at Imola the tricky car will remain the same.
https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/10...mi-grand-prix/

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

DTM also had this for some time but ditched that system

Of course F1 already has some sort of performance penalty system and that is that the last year top teams get less windtunnel and CFD modelling time than lesser teams.
For the rest it's up to the FIA to make a set of rules which are clear and to look upon that teams follow those rules in a way that they were intended.

To some extend a performance penalty system makes sense, but now with the budget caps everyone has more or less an equal chance.
At some point teams and drivers should be rewarded if they produce better results, if all chances are equal (and I think with the budget cap that goes a long way).
That is one of the base rules of sports. We want the best to win.
I mean I've never heard of a marathon athlete getting some lead in his/her shoes because he/she won the previous event

I agree - rules are put in place and teams wins on merit especially when they are all on equal footing as far as budget goes.
I do agree that there should also be rewards for winners at some point (aside from the monetary winnings) vs only trying to handicap them with wind tunnel/CFD.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Apart from introducing silly success penalties Horner has chuckled at some other teams for basically screwing their car developments. Merc and Ferrari could do worse than come up with something that is a match for the RB effort rather than constantly moaning like schoolchildren, McLaren once a challellenger surprisingly has got completely lost
That said I think Ralf Schumacher has got it wrong for a change blaming the two Ferrari drivers for underperforming, the 23 is understeering and oversteering at the same time, Fred has said a new development programme is being introduced building up to Barcelona but at Imola the tricky car will remain the same.
https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/10...mi-grand-prix/

The latest rumours :

A new seat is fitted in a AlphaTauri car for Ricciardo...
I think , Nick De Vries will be replaced by the Australian.
Too bad for De Vries ...

Mercedes will come at Imola (Emilia-Romagna) with a half new car , this means a very big update for the W14 .
Wolff said : We need a 1 sec. faster car to fight with the Red Bulls for the victory .

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

The latest rumours :

A new seat is fitted in a AlphaTauri car for Ricciardo...
I think , Nick De Vries will be replaced by the Australian.
Too bad for De Vries ...

Mercedes will come at Imola (Emilia-Romagna) with a half new car , this means a very big update for the W14 .
Wolff said : We need a 1 sec. faster car to fight with the Red Bulls for the victory .

It's the move that Ricciardo is hoping for and De Vries looks like being the fall guy, just not in tune with the F1 way.
Wolff can try with his BS talk but can you see that jalopy even halving the difference to MAX between races.