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      11-10-2018, 02:40 PM   #111
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This tells me BMW is charging alot more for "special models" just to get what the base car used to be with this 5 tier thing going on. and base car is being watered down to drive like a rwd Camry
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      11-10-2018, 03:14 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scrammer View Post
A5 ... S5 ... RS5

Simple
well, in that context A5 is more like an F30 430i, S5 is like 440i and RS5 is like M4.
they don't have anything crazier than that in the A5 platform, do they?
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      11-10-2018, 05:18 PM   #113
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Competition seems to be the best variant for my needs
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      11-10-2018, 05:25 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedoniste View Post
Competition seems to be the best variant for my needs
I’m sure it will have the highest take rate too - sort of like the BMW version of the GTS in Porsche land.
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      11-10-2018, 05:49 PM   #115
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Bmw build whatever customer wants.
There will be one that suits everyone needs and I like it
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      11-10-2018, 07:43 PM   #116
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eDrive View Post
This seriously might be diluting BMW M GmbH

My issue is that they are really making you pay to play. The ///M division's models used to be track ready weapons. Now you need to spend a ton of extra $$ otherwise the cars are a bit meh at their baseline.
What are you talking about?

There has never been an M car that's as track ready in stock form as the current M2/3/4.

I run as fast as any 911 or Cayman at my home track with the stock pads and tires.
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      11-10-2018, 08:00 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by ismelllikepoop View Post
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Originally Posted by E46M54325Ci View Post
So basic M is going to be relegated to what Audi's S line has become...they'll charge more and more however they can I guess!
They did the same calling the 3 coupe a 4 following Audi's plan to jack up the price.
FYI...the 3-series coupe was always more expensive than the sedan.
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      11-10-2018, 08:00 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rainfall View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrammer View Post
A5 ... S5 ... RS5

Simple
well, in that context A5 is more like an F30 430i, S5 is like 440i and RS5 is like M4.
they don't have anything crazier than that in the A5 platform, do they?
No ... BMW should have ... good - better - best !!!

rather than:
okay, sorta good, almost good, good, a bit better than good , not quite better (but better than you), better, a little better, almost the best ......... AMG - LOL!
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      11-10-2018, 08:24 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer20 View Post
What are you talking about?

There has never been an M car that's as track ready I'm none stock form as the current M2/3/4.

I run as fast as any 911 or Cayman at my home track with the stock pads and tires.
I mean M cars of the past were more driver focused out the gate. Reviews have consistently said that the Competition and CS versions of the M3/4, for example, are how the base model should have been out of the factory.

I'm not talking about lap times.
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      11-10-2018, 10:01 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieGrüneHölle View Post
Complaining use to be..."why don't we get the limited models in the US?" Now that they are offered here, it is complaining that there are too many models.

E9x M3 had numerous variants, just not all offered in the US(Base, ZCP, CRT, GTS, Lime Rock, DTM Ed.)
Exactly. People complaining about having too many options now. Or is it, complaining that they have to spend more money, because now just having the M Model, doesn’t mean being on the top rung. There was always this complaint that the M3 coupe/M4 didn’t quite match up with a 911 in terms of performance, so the next jump up was to a 911. Now, there is a chance of having that “almost” 911 equivalent, with a CS Model, etc.

I say more power to BMW and to the consumer. Because it seems like the sweet spot will be either the Comp or the CS Model, which means more sales for BMW, and more cars for the consumer.
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      11-10-2018, 11:54 PM   #121
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      11-11-2018, 01:29 AM   #122
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"M Performance Automobiles - Engineering by M GmbH"

I find this interesting. So it's an M car disguised as a "M Performance Automobile." Okay, then.

I personally think it's good to have options, even if it appears like the M brand has been diluted. It really hasn't though - it has just expanded. Before, you had one M car and it was either "just right" or "too much," depending on your tastes. However, there is no denying that the performance of today's lowest tier M car can still spank the M cars of yesterday on the track, so it's not like you aren't getting the sheer performance to back up the badge and the cost. With this new M hierarchy, you simply get to decide how hardcore you (and your wallet) are willing to go. Also, I don't buy the whole, "This is what the base M car should have been from the start," argument by all the CS reviewers. I mean, you don't hear Porsche GT3 reviewers saying, "This is what the base Carrera should have been." It's just not how things work anymore. We have infinite tuning options now with software tuned steering feel, adaptive suspension technology, etc. There is no longer a way to sell a "one size fits all" M car because there is too much room for interpretation these days in terms of how a car should be tuned for either road use or track use. BMW is now letting you choose if you want your M car more road optimized (majority of sales will fall here because of the use case and price point) or track optimized (more track-focused gear = fewer sales = more $ to justify the R&D) from the factory. This is just BMW doing what they have to do to compete and sell cars in a demanding marketplace.
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      11-11-2018, 04:28 AM   #123
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Making the CSL model will hopefully quiet the complaints about BMW losing their way. I don't want to hear that shit anymore. Lol
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      11-11-2018, 05:58 AM   #124
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Like 51%
More like 56%
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      11-11-2018, 09:09 AM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CP911 View Post
"M Performance Automobiles - Engineering by M GmbH"

I find this interesting. So it's an M car disguised as a "M Performance Automobile." Okay, then.

I personally think it's good to have options, even if it appears like the M brand has been diluted. It really hasn't though - it has just expanded. Before, you had one M car and it was either "just right" or "too much," depending on your tastes. However, there is no denying that the performance of today's lowest tier M car can still spank the M cars of yesterday on the track, so it's not like you aren't getting the sheer performance to back up the badge and the cost. With this new M hierarchy, you simply get to decide how hardcore you (and your wallet) are willing to go. Also, I don't buy the whole, "This is what the base M car should have been from the start," argument by all the CS reviewers. I mean, you don't hear Porsche GT3 reviewers saying, "This is what the base Carrera should have been." It's just not how things work anymore. We have infinite tuning options now with software tuned steering feel, adaptive suspension technology, etc. There is no longer a way to sell a "one size fits all" M car because there is too much room for interpretation these days in terms of how a car should be tuned for either road use or track use. BMW is now letting you choose if you want your M car more road optimized (majority of sales will fall here because of the use case and price point) or track optimized (more track-focused gear = fewer sales = more $ to justify the R&D) from the factory. This is just BMW doing what they have to do to compete and sell cars in a demanding marketplace.

M Performance did not officially come to the USA until 2014 with the launch of the M235i.
We in other parts of the world had the sub brand since 2012. Where M Performance introduced the concepts to M that would be otherwise considered taboo. Namely Diesel in high performance format,all wheel drive for passenger cars with the M135i, X5/X6 M50d and the Touring dilemma for the M550d/Touring. All were successful and added significant increases to BMW M margins and the model portfolio.

They also satisfied the customer who would wanted high performance but did not want to be hammered by excessive tax legislation for owning one which is why economy helped prevent this over an existing high performance SUV.

Since its inception in 2012 to today. Now every model line bar the 6er GT and 2er Active Tourer/Gran Tourer have an M Performance model at the top tier from the 1er through to The 8. Even the X models included.
It's a lucrative idea and response to separate the model line.

But even with the latest models they still maintain the concepts that were merely were and still are taboo such as the M760Li, Diesel and Touring and what seems to be overlooked the first M Performance UKL based model the X2M35i.

When we look at M. They are of course slowly implementing these taboos such as all wheel drive with the specialty M xDrive, alternative means of power and
The consideration of a Touring in over 10 years.

Where you can see that M have not just catered to that individual who wanted all this and more because it was a toxic subject for an M car. I like to think M Performance as a mobile test lab to see how application of certain technologies new to M would react.
Of course this is marketing and everyone else would say M stands for marketing but so does the M in AMG and countless others. Except Fiat. Don't be fooled by that.
Everything is driven by marketing but also how the customer progresses to accept the taboo subjects because they are what the customer needs.
Maybe this time around we could see the first M-1er. Slowly and surely the rules are being broken to benefit the requirements of the customer.
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      11-11-2018, 09:31 AM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moneygrowsontrees View Post
More like 56%
Mas X Menos lol

It's 51% here in SoCal -
I'm told by my M manager in dealership finance
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      11-11-2018, 09:39 AM   #127
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When I hear people complain about the creation of higher performance variants than their standard M Model, it really makes me wonder... Did they really only buy the M Model to feed their ego? Surely if their buying decision was rooted in seeking performance, they'd be happy about more hardcore offerings becoming available.
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      11-11-2018, 09:46 AM   #128
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Humble request for BMW: please bring Active Cruise Control to the next gen M3 like you did with the M5. Not having ACC available in the M3 is the main reason I bought a 335i. My thinking is having Comp/CS/CSL variants might just make ACC acceptable on at least the M Model.
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      11-11-2018, 10:32 AM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenixbmwlife View Post
I kind of understand where you are coming from. Especially with the prices going up. But I don't care what the Camaro can do. It could beat a Mclaren 720S on a track for all I care. It's not a car I am interested in buying.

Remember back in 2008 when the Nissan GTR came out? It smoked everything on a track from BMW as well as most other car manufactures as well. With all of that I never had the desire to get one. I just didn't care because to me it's still a Nissan and I'm not into them.

No offense but choosing not to buy a CSL based on whether a much cheaper car like the Camaro can beat it is a bit insecure.
This is always the fastest way to shutdown the (usually young) hater bros. Acknowledge them and then say you just don't care. "I know your car can beat mine. It's amazing, I just would never buy one."
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      11-11-2018, 11:06 AM   #130
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All I'm saying is that if you're going to market something as "Born for the racetrack" (BMW's words not mine), then it better back that up, especially at that price point. Maybe it will, time will tell. But if it doesn't, then yes, "BMW has lost its way" and is completely about marketing/profits. Again, maybe (and hopefully) it will.
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      11-11-2018, 11:08 AM   #131
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Looks like bmw will drown the market with all types of M s
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      11-11-2018, 11:28 AM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivegotklas View Post
Please no X5 M CSL.
Exactly - why have an X5 M CSL when you can have an X7M CSL (with moonroof and 8-sp auto tranny and trailer towing package please).

Ultimate in family practicality and track beast all-in-one!!!
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