Still want an EV?

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Putting it bluntly you won't know when, you won't know where and it may not even happen tp you but keeping EVs outside as far as possible from any buildings when parked and especially when charging is the best advise I can offer.

You shout at clouds. Why?

[fcman]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Putting it bluntly you won't know when, you won't know where and it may not even happen tp you but keeping EVs outside as far as possible from any buildings when parked and especially when charging is the best advise I can offer.

This is what we call paranoia lol

[KRS_SN]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

The stock makes even LESS sense. The public owns less than 13% of all stock capital collectively. Meaning, stocks, 401ks, College funds, etc.

You’re not keeping Tesla afloat - someone bigger (the US government) is actually doing so. You’re not playing the system, they system is playing us. They have been injecting capital and keeping Tesla afloat by boosting the stock (worth More than Toyota? How?) and crafting legislation to benefit Tesla. It’s ridiculous

To push through the ev mandate they need a us manufacturer to produce the goods or I guess people will be up in arms as how can a local revolution be powered by imports?
The Chinese are best placed to provide the goods. From what I've seen their EV products are actually better in many cases.
In many cases like lotus and MG they are buying up local firms and selling supremely well.
The whole thing is so artificially regulated its a ponzi scheme and I've posted the share prices chart that's crazy volatile over the past 3 years.

[G MONEY]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

The stock makes even LESS sense. The public owns less than 13% of all stock capital collectively. Meaning, stocks, 401ks, College funds, etc.

You’re not keeping Tesla afloat - someone bigger (the US government) is actually doing so. You’re not playing the system, they system is playing us. They have been injecting capital and keeping Tesla afloat by boosting the stock (worth More than Toyota? How?) and crafting legislation to benefit Tesla. It’s ridiculous

I honestly don’t care about Elon,EV cars or the debate people have about them. I just know I’ve made a killing and still doing
Well with the stock. Makes no difference to me what keeps it rising. Lol. 🤑🤑

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by gblansten

You shout at clouds. Why?

With what I've seen and heard I have to go with this.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Interesting vid by Scotty, who I usually do not like his content. I did not know Tesla specs its own "EV tires". $4,600 maintenance savings still doesn't push the needle for me to go EV. They are still too expensive to buy-in and have the range and charging anxiety that comes with it.

Yeah. The MICHELIN Pilot Sport 4S is a fantastic tire in general. Had the BMW Star versions on my M5. The interior foam on the T2 version does a good job reducing tire drone/noise. I’m sure they also had to beef up the 4S as well to take that 1050 ft-lbs of torque and the curb weight.

[chad86tsi]

The fact that Tesla has had to cut it's own throat to grease the skids to move product it overproduces and to defend itself from competition doesn't bode well for it's long term stock value position.

It's down about half of from it's all time peak, and has had many boom/bust cycles in the last few years since then. Not the sign of a healthy business model. Some will make money off this, some will lose. At the end of the day, they have probably more federal $$ in their business (tax credits) than any in the history of the market. Kinda hard to lose money when you get free government money. And yet even with that they are still down 48% from their peak.


This sort of thing isn't good for business viability either:

Tesla is leading a large drop in used electric car value in the US – with Model 3 being down 30% over the last year.

Top 10 Used Cars With the Greatest Year-over-Year Price Drops (June 2022 vs. June 2023) – iSeeCars Study
Rank Model Average Price (June 2023) $ Price Change from June 2022 % Price Change from June 2022
1 Tesla Model 3 $37,023 -$16,258 -30.5%
2 Tesla Model X $70,158 -$18,980 -21.3%
3 Nissan LEAF $22,504 -$5,354 -19.2%
4 Tesla Model S $64,938 -$15,212 -19.0%
5 Land Rover Range Rover $75,481 -$17,095 -18.5%
6 Land Rover Range Rover Velar $46,269 -$9,783 -17.5%
7 Land Rover Discovery $40,986 -$8,255 -16.8%
8 Hyundai Ioniq Hybrid $20,148 -$3,893 -16.2%
9 Jaguar E-PACE $33,213 -$6,401 -16.2%
10 BMW 5 Series (PHEV) $33,607 -$6,170 -15.5%
National Average $32,811 -$1,237 -3.6%

https://electrek.co/2023/07/11/tesla...del-3-down-30/

holding 3 of the 4 top worst value drops of -any- kind of car, EV or otherwise That's quite an accomplishment.

The retained value party for used Teslas is over, and owners have Tesla itself to blame for that.

Something else to keep in mind: being segment leader does not always equate to being profitable. Tesla did this to hold it's position, but did so at the expense of all it's existing customers (and their equity), and it's own bottom line. I expect this to weigh down the stock in the long term, even with all the peaks and valleys that will occur from natural speculation and profit taking activities.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

The fact that Tesla has had to cut it's own throat to grease the skids to move product it overproduces and to defend itself from competition doesn't bode well for it's long term stock value position.

It's down about half of from it's all time peak, and has had many boom/bust cycles in the last few years since then. Not the sign of a healthy business model. Some will make money off this, some will lose. At the end of the day, they have probably more federal $$ in their business (tax credits) than any in the history of the market. Kinda hard to lose money when you get free government money. And yet even with that they are still down 48% from their peak.


This sort of thing isn't good for business viability either:

Tesla is leading a large drop in used electric car value in the US – with Model 3 being down 30% over the last year.

Top 10 Used Cars With the Greatest Year-over-Year Price Drops (June 2022 vs. June 2023) – iSeeCars Study
Rank Model Average Price (June 2023) $ Price Change from June 2022 % Price Change from June 2022
1 Tesla Model 3 $37,023 -$16,258 -30.5%
2 Tesla Model X $70,158 -$18,980 -21.3%
3 Nissan LEAF $22,504 -$5,354 -19.2%
4 Tesla Model S $64,938 -$15,212 -19.0%
5 Land Rover Range Rover $75,481 -$17,095 -18.5%
6 Land Rover Range Rover Velar $46,269 -$9,783 -17.5%
7 Land Rover Discovery $40,986 -$8,255 -16.8%
8 Hyundai Ioniq Hybrid $20,148 -$3,893 -16.2%
9 Jaguar E-PACE $33,213 -$6,401 -16.2%
10 BMW 5 Series (PHEV) $33,607 -$6,170 -15.5%
National Average $32,811 -$1,237 -3.6%

https://electrek.co/2023/07/11/tesla...del-3-down-30/

holding 3 of the 4 top worst value drops of -any- kind of car, EV or otherwise That's quite an accomplishment.

The retained value party for used Teslas is over, and owners have Tesla itself to blame for that.

Something else to keep in mind: being segment leader does not always equate to being profitable. Tesla did this to hold it's position, but did so at the expense of all it's existing customers (and their equity), and it's own bottom line. I expect this to weigh down the stock in the long term, even with all the peaks and valleys that will occur from natural speculation and profit taking activities.

Tesla dropped prices to leverage its ability to earn a profit making EVs while its competitors actually lose money per car. Pretty rational decision to take advantage of of that.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Interesting vid by Scotty, who I usually do not like his content. I did not know Tesla specs its own "EV tires". $4,600 maintenance savings still doesn't push the needle for me to go EV. They are still too expensive to buy-in and have the range and charging anxiety that comes with it.

I didn't know some manufacturers have specs for specific model tires for their cars until I saw a discussion by Tyre Reviews on Youtube. An example of this are the Michelin Pilot Sports. He said the BMW OEM spec tires for the PSS' and I think there is a BMW OEM spec 4S are very different that the ones you buy "off the shelf". He said the BMW engineers worked with the Michelin engineers to have the tires produce a specific handling characteristic with how the BMW engineers have the suspension tuning done.

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by gblansten

Tesla dropped prices to leverage its ability to earn a profit making EVs while its competitors actually lose money per car. Pretty rational decision to take advantage of of that.

Yes.

Sustainable? No.

You aware of inventory problems Tesla has been having? Making product no one wants, and having to sell at a discount to move product only looks good on paper in the short term.

Most other OEM's are cutting EV production to defend their economic bottom line. Tesla has a "fucking who cares? send it !" answer to the EV demand problem. They have this attitude because they aren't adequately diversified in the marketplace. It's their only play to make. As market for EV's goes flat, what is their "plan B?"

Normally you might see a "plan B" look something like innovation or releasing a new product, but they have a history at failing on that front. They are quickly headed to has-been status, and are adding on to that with the added insult of a sense of "cheapness" to their value.

If Diluting their market position to increase volume and defend position was such a great idea, why don't Ferrari and Porsche do the same? And yet Porsche and Ferrari are profitable and stable. Tesla has changed it's strategies, my concern is that this been a bad change, and current owners will lose more than anyone.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

Yes.

Sustainable? No.

You aware of inventory problems Tesla has been having? Making product no one wants, and having to sell at a discount to move product only looks good on paper in the short term.

Most other OEM's are cutting EV production to defend their economic bottom line. Tesla has a "fucking who cares? send it !" answer to the EV demand problem. They have this attitude because they aren't adequately diversified in the marketplace. It's their only play to make. As market for EV's goes flat, what is their "plan B?"

Normally you might see a "plan B" look something like innovation or releasing a new product, but they have a history at failing on that front. They are quickly headed to has-been status, and are adding on to that with the added insult of a sense of "cheapness" to their value.

If Diluting their market position to increase volume and defend position was such a great idea, why don't Ferrari and Porsche do the same? And yet Porsche and Ferrari are profitable and stable. Tesla has changed it's strategies, my concern is that this been a bad change, and current owners will lose more than anyone.

One of the best posts so far, in laymans terms Tesla having ta x pay ers cash injections, your own misappropriated ta x money to beef up a walking dead greenie dream.

[G MONEY]

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

The fact that Tesla has had to cut it's own throat to grease the skids to move product it overproduces and to defend itself from competition doesn't bode well for it's long term stock value position.

It's down about half of from it's all time peak, and has had many boom/bust cycles in the last few years since then. Not the sign of a healthy business model. Some will make money off this, some will lose. At the end of the day, they have probably more federal $$ in their business (tax credits) than any in the history of the market. Kinda hard to lose money when you get free government money. And yet even with that they are still down 48% from their peak.


This sort of thing isn't good for business viability either:

Tesla is leading a large drop in used electric car value in the US – with Model 3 being down 30% over the last year.

Top 10 Used Cars With the Greatest Year-over-Year Price Drops (June 2022 vs. June 2023) – iSeeCars Study
Rank Model Average Price (June 2023) $ Price Change from June 2022 % Price Change from June 2022
1 Tesla Model 3 $37,023 -$16,258 -30.5%
2 Tesla Model X $70,158 -$18,980 -21.3%
3 Nissan LEAF $22,504 -$5,354 -19.2%
4 Tesla Model S $64,938 -$15,212 -19.0%
5 Land Rover Range Rover $75,481 -$17,095 -18.5%
6 Land Rover Range Rover Velar $46,269 -$9,783 -17.5%
7 Land Rover Discovery $40,986 -$8,255 -16.8%
8 Hyundai Ioniq Hybrid $20,148 -$3,893 -16.2%
9 Jaguar E-PACE $33,213 -$6,401 -16.2%
10 BMW 5 Series (PHEV) $33,607 -$6,170 -15.5%
[B]National [...]

Again. I really don’t care about all these numbers and what other people say about the stock or Tesla. But if you invested in them early on, you have made your money many times over!! Should you buy now at 200 a share? Who knows. The stock could drop 30% today and tons off people would still be way ahead. I’m in construction. The stock market is not my specialty to say the least. To me it’s like gambling. Win and lose. Since Covid, I probably have 10 losers that I have bought. Lol. But the 5 winners have done great. So I’m ahead. Carvana and Zoom were my cash cows👍🏽👍🏽

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by G MONEY

Again. I really don’t care about all these numbers and what other people say about the stock or Tesla. But if you invested in them early on, you have made your money many times over!! Should you buy now at 200 a share? Who knows. The stock could drop 30% today and tons off people would still be way ahead. I’m in construction. The stock market is not my specialty to say the least. To me it’s like gambling. Win and lose. Since Covid, I probably have 10 losers that I have bought. Lol. But the 5 winners have done great. So I’m ahead. Carvana and Zoom were my cash cows��������

Duly noted, but if you care about that profit you have made, you might want to start taking notice of these factors so you can get out at the next peak. Each peak was less than the prior peak going back several years, and lacking some new breakthrough which seems unlikely as of late, they are facing a declining market position (as evidenced by their recent drastic actions). This is not a tesla-bash reply, it's a comment to help you maximize your return. I don't care, I have no holdings in Tesla and don't plan to any time soon. A stock only makes you a profit when you sell, and only when you sell for a profit at that.

[Car-Addicted]

The Prices of Used Electric Cars are Frefalling
While the average used vehicle’s value fell 3.6% during June 2023, the price of the average used EV plummeted 29.5%. In May, the same number dropped 28.9%. And in April, it fell 24%. It is safe to say that used EV prices are in freefall.
The price of a one-to-five-year-old Tesla Model 3 is 30.5% lower than it was this time last year.
What are these complaints? That current battery technology (lithium-ion) makes electric vehicles expensive, heavy, lacking range, and quick to wear out. On top of that, lithium mining is reportedly contributing to environmental degradation and human rights abuse. Certain experts say we should have waited for one of the many other emerging battery chemistries to mature before going all-in on EVs.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/auto...ng/ar-AA1fubCr

[Car-Addicted]

Good article, nice chart but choosing a Ford F150 is stacking the deck in favor of EV's

Is it cheaper to refuel your EV battery or gas tank? We did the math in all 50 states.
The basic argument is that electricity prices are so high it has erased the advantage of recharging over refilling. This cuts to the heart of why many people buy EVs, according to the Pew Research Center: 70 percent of potential EV buyers report “saving money on gas” as among their top reasons.
The winner? The EV — barely. The savings were modest because of the substantial premium for using fast chargers, typically three to four times more expensive than charging at home.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/clima...e-vs-gasoline/

Adding pending EV road taxes.
Higher tire wear for EV's .
Higher depreciation for EV's and the answer is quite different.

[G MONEY]

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

Duly noted, but if you care about that profit you have made, you might want to start taking notice of these factors so you can get out at the next peak. Each peak was less than the prior peak going back several years, and lacking some new breakthrough which seems unlikely as of late, they are facing a declining market position (as evidenced by their recent drastic actions). This is not a tesla-bash reply, it's a comment to help you maximize your return. I don't care, I have no holdings in Tesla and don't plan to any time soon. A stock only makes you a profit when you sell, and only when you sell for a profit at that.

I’ve made a nice chunk from Tesla. I’ve cashed out a few times over the years. If the company went bankrupt tomorrow, I’m still up. It’s been a free ride for some
Time now. I agree with your statement though. It’s only a profit if you see. Some people hang
On to long. That’s why it’s like gambling. You never know when is the time. Just need to roll the dice and don’t look back:-)

[tturedraider]

I have read very little of this thread, so maybe this question has been asked and answered already. I live in Chicago proper. I think it’s a pretty fair estimate that 50% (possibly more) of cars here use street parking. What are the EV proponents proposing for charging these cars? I have never seen this question addressed or even asked in the media or anywhere else that pushes EVs.

I live in a condo building. Our building is relatively new, but it wasn’t built with charging electric cars in mind. We have a 180 car parking garage. We have one condo owner who has a Tesla. The condo association agreed to allow him to install a charging station. Fortunately for him his parking space is next to a column where his charger is mounted. Many of the parking spaces have no structure next to them where a charger could be mounted. I suppose a charger could be mounted on a stand installed at the front of the parking space. However, when the association allowed the installation of the charger for the one owner we were told by the electrician it was the only one our building’s infrastructure could support. There is no separate electric meter for his station, so he pays an estimation of what the electricity costs directly to the association. The association was told the building would require a $300,000 improvement in the electrical infrastructure to support the installation of charging stations throughout the garage. That’s just the basic electrical infrastructure. It does not include the cost of the installation of the actual charging stations.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

I have read very little of this thread, so maybe this question has been asked and answered already. I live in Chicago proper. I think it’s a pretty fair estimate that 50% (possibly more) of cars here use street parking. What are the EV proponents proposing for charging these cars? I have never seen this question addressed or even asked in the media or anywhere else that pushes EVs.

I live in a condo building. Our building is relatively new, but it wasn’t built with charging electric cars in mind. We have a 180 car parking garage. We have one condo owner who has a Tesla. The condo association agreed to allow him install a charging station. Fortunately for him his parking space is next to a column where his charger is mounted. Many of the parking spaces have no structure next to them where a charger could be mounted. I suppose a charger could be mounted on a stand installed at the front of the parking space. However, when the association allowed the installation of the charger for the one owner we were told by the electrician it was the only one our building’s infrastructure could support. There is no separate electric meter for his station, so he pays an estimation of what the electricity costs directly to the association. The association was told the building would require a $300,000 improvement in the electrical infrastructure to support the installation of charging stations throughout the garage. That’s just the basic electrical infrastructure. It does not include the cost of the installation of the actual charging stations.

https://www.wired.com/story/wait-so-...rge-their-evs/

Tough topic and great question. It comes up often and is obviously completely legit. The above article addresses it.

[KRS_SN]

Originally Posted by G MONEY

I’ve made a nice chunk from Tesla. I’ve cashed out a few times over the years. If the company went bankrupt tomorrow, I’m still up. It’s been a free ride for some
Time now. I agree with your statement though. It’s only a profit if you see. Some people hang
On to long. That’s why it’s like gambling. You never know when is the time. Just need to roll the dice and don’t look back:-)

It's time to move on this one is pale n stale if ur holding it...now with your wisdom of having lucked out tell us what's the next big un so we save our money meant for ev and use it to cash out

[G MONEY]

Originally Posted by KRS_SN

It's time to move on this one is pale n stale if ur holding it...now with your wisdom of having lucked out tell us what's the next big un so we save our money meant for ev and use it to cash out

Lol. I wish I knew my friend. Like I posted before, I miss way more than I hit. I have a shit ton of Xpeng. Hopefully someday it takes off. I never really tell peeps what to and what not to buy. I don’t want to be the reason somebody loses their cash. I wish you luck on whatever you go after. Let me know if you have any
Good leads

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by gblansten

https://www.wired.com/story/wait-so-...rge-their-evs/

Tough topic and great question. It comes up often and is obviously completely legit. The above article addresses it.

So, I notice that article has lots of ifs, maybes, and coulds, but no concrete solutions. Lots of pie in the sky ideas. It kind of makes me wonder if they have ever actually looked at the street parking in Chicago or maybe New York City. The cars are packed in like sardines.

Of the three largest U.S. cities New York has the largest public transportation system and Chicago has the second largest system and the second highest ridership after New York City. And yet, in Chicago there are more neighborhoods that don’t have really easy access to the L than there are neighborhoods that do. So, despite the thoughts of encouraging car owners to give up their cars and take public transportation I can assure them that is not going to happen. And in the city big parking lots where people might leave their cars to charge do not exist even if people were willing to use them. Basically, the only truly feasible way you are going to get street parkers to charge their electric cars is to have free standing charging stations up and down the streets.

Thinking of improving and/or expanding public transportation in Chicago. Right this minute the Chicago Transportation Authority is in the midst of rehabbing a two mile span of its 100 year old infrastructure at a cost of $2.1 billion. The CTA has 224 miles of train tracks. This includes completely new infrastructure and rebuilding four train stations. A proposed plan to extend the Red Line to serve more of the south side of Chicago has a projected cost of $3.6 billion. And, of course, we all know what would happen to that number if they actually did it. Crain’s Chicago Business says it’s not worth it. Too much cost and not enough gain. https://www.chicagobusiness.com/opin...%20the%20world.

How the EV folks think all of the infrastructure to make their grand EV future feasible is going to be paid for is just beyond me.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

So, I notice that article has lots of ifs, maybes, and coulds, but no concrete solutions. Lots of pie in the sky ideas. It kind of makes me wonder if they have ever actually looked at the street parking in Chicago or maybe New York City. The cars are packed in like sardines.

Of the three largest U.S. cities New York has the largest system and Chicago has the second largest system and the second highest ridership after New York City. And yet, in Chicago there are more neighborhoods that don’t have really easy access to the L than there are neighborhoods that do. So, despite the thoughts of encouraging car owners to give up their cars and take public transportation I can assure them that is not going to happen. And in the city big parking lots where people might leave their cars to charge do not exist even if people were willing to use them. Basically, the only truly feasible way you are going to get street parkers to charge their electric cars is to have free standing charging stations up and down the streets.

Thinking of improving and/or expanding public transportation in Chicago. Right this minute the Chicago Transportation Authority is in the midst of rehabbing a two mile span of its 100 year old infrastructure at a cost of $2.1 billion. The CTA has 224 miles of train tracks. This includes completely new infrastructure and rebuilding four train stations. A proposed plan to extend the Red Line to serve more of the south side of Chicago has a projected cost of $3.6 billion. And, of course, we all know what would happen to that number if they actually did it. Crain’s Chicago Business says it’s not worth it. Too much cost and not enough gain. https://www.chicagobusiness.com/opin...%20the%20world.

How the EV folks think all of the infrastructure to make their grand EV future feasible is going to be paid for is just beyond me.

Definitely a challenge. More in city superchargers and incentives for employers like hospitals to offer charging would help some use cases.