New 2009 2010 BMW Z4 - ZPOST
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   New 2009 2010 BMW Z4 - ZPOST > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > General BMW News and Cars Discussion

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-10-2022, 03:44 PM   #1
Coi
First Lieutenant
United_States
281
Rep
315
Posts

Drives: 21 X3 M40i, 07 Z4MR
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Cal

iTrader: (0)

BMW offering Heated Seats, Adaptive Cruise Control as Monthly Subscription in S.Korea

Here is the official South Korean Connected Drive page

And here is a translated version

BMW is charging monthly subscriptions for heated seats, heated steering wheel, adaptive cruise control (Driving Assistant Plus), auto high beams, and the built in dash cam (Drive Recorder) in South Korea.

This means that cars equipped with all of the hardware for these functions, including heating coils in the seats and expensive adaptive cruise radars, will have them locked out unless the subscription is paid. There is an "Unlimited" subscription option but there is no indication as to whether this will transfer to subsequent owners.

There is also a discounted 3 year subscription option priced slightly cheaper than the unlimited. This is clearly intended for lessees so the features will be disabled when the cars are returned at lease-end and BMW can then charge second owners to re-enable them.

BMW is also charging for CarPlay, a feature that is included on most economy cars.

Subscription pricing is approximately:

Heated seats: $18.50 per month
High Beam Assistant: $8.50 per month
Heated steering wheel: $10 per month
Driving Assistant Plus: $39.50 per month
Drive Recorder: $11.50 per month

Total: About $88 per month

Other Connected Drive options on the site are:

CarPlay: $308 one time fee
IconicSounds Sport: $139 one time fee

BMW has hinted that they will bring this model to the US or Europe but have faced backlash from customers.

Last edited by Coi; 07-10-2022 at 03:58 PM..
Appreciate 0
      07-10-2022, 03:54 PM   #2
Coi
First Lieutenant
United_States
281
Rep
315
Posts

Drives: 21 X3 M40i, 07 Z4MR
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Cal

iTrader: (0)

Personally I really don't like this direction for BMW and I would definitely not be purchasing a new one if they bring this pricing model in the US. BMW is supposed to be a luxury brand and charging owners for features already installed on their cars is beyond parsimonious. Not at all a premium ownership experience.

This really just seems like greed with no benefit to the customer. Having hardware for features fully installed on cars but blocked with software is wasteful. This subscription is simply just to have the features unblocked; if the hardware malfunctions off-warranty then the customer still has to pay for repairs as well as paying the subscription.

Putting safety features like auto high beams or adaptive cruise behind a subscription might even be dangerous. If a customer's subscription ends or they have an error with their payment they might not even immediately notice that these features are no longer available. Of course drivers should be aware that any safety feature could malfunction or stop working at any time, but manufacturers should not be going out of their way to increase the number of interruptions to the operation of these features.

There are also issues with subsequent owners, where BMW could say that unlimited subscriptions only apply to the owner that paid for it and don't stay with the car. If the car is bought from a dealership rather than a private sale the later owners would never even know if unlimited subscriptions had previously been on the car.

With electric vehicles on the horizon this gives manufactures even more options to limit basic functionality behind subscriptions like range or performance. Also if one manufacturer starts doing stuff like this it can cause a cascading effect through the industry. I would suggest that anyone with connections at BMW try to make sure they don't continue down this path.
Appreciate 3
      07-11-2022, 02:16 PM   #3
Entropy89
Private First Class
Entropy89's Avatar
158
Rep
105
Posts

Drives: G20 M340ix
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: NYC

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
This would stop me from purchasing or leasing any future BMWs. I can kind of understand subscriptions for things that are continuously updated and always work *cough* carplay constantly disconnecting *cough*. But something as simple as heating seats and steering wheel is just plain dumb, and an unnecessary cash grab. Same thing with the drive recorder, if you're paying to have that information stored on the cloud then thats one thing (and should have some free storage anyways), but just paying to be able to use it is ridiculous if its already installed on your car.

And disabling safety systems based on subscription should be illegal IMO.

$88/month is over $1000/year and that just seems wrong, even if you don't need heated seats or steering wheel all year that's not much of a savings.
__________________
2022 G20 M340ix - Current.

2018 F30 330ix - no more.

2005 E46 325xi - I want this car back.
Appreciate 3
Coi280.50
c1pher3082.00
      07-11-2022, 02:48 PM   #4
T0RM3NT
Mr. Irrelevant
T0RM3NT's Avatar
2826
Rep
505
Posts

Drives: '23 G80M3CX Dravit/Silverstone
Join Date: Apr 2022
Location: Denver

iTrader: (0)

Appreciate 1
      07-11-2022, 03:25 PM   #5
joao.toscano
Captain
joao.toscano's Avatar
Netherlands
1287
Rep
911
Posts

Drives: BMW M140i
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Amsterdam

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
BMW Heated Seats Subscription

Is this normal?!? I'm confused

__________________
....Life is too short to drive boring cars
BMW M140i STG.1 MHD/ BMW 120i E81 - UA71 gone

HGT'2022 |
M&M-PerformanceCC

Last edited by joao.toscano; 07-11-2022 at 04:12 PM..
Appreciate 0
      07-11-2022, 04:13 PM   #6
joao.toscano
Captain
joao.toscano's Avatar
Netherlands
1287
Rep
911
Posts

Drives: BMW M140i
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Amsterdam

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Now with the right pic uploaded
__________________
....Life is too short to drive boring cars
BMW M140i STG.1 MHD/ BMW 120i E81 - UA71 gone

HGT'2022 |
M&M-PerformanceCC
Appreciate 0
      07-11-2022, 04:19 PM   #7
xlover
Colonel
No_Country
2127
Rep
2,491
Posts

Drives: 2023 X7 40i
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Boston

iTrader: (0)

Korea market for now….. more coming unless consumers vocally react on nps surveys AND with their wallets

Looking at the connected drive store, someone at bmw got behind this idea years ago and they invested a lot in making the idea work. They are going to keep trying.
Appreciate 1
      07-11-2022, 04:22 PM   #8
M-technik-3
Major
1350
Rep
1,129
Posts

Drives: E30 M3, E36 M3, 328iT, 335i
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: western Ma

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
1995 M3  [0.00]
2007 E91  [0.00]
1988 M3  [8.00]
Another reason to hang on to my older cars.
Appreciate 2
whyzee1251317.50
      07-11-2022, 04:23 PM   #9
xlover
Colonel
No_Country
2127
Rep
2,491
Posts

Drives: 2023 X7 40i
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Boston

iTrader: (0)

Korea market for now….. more coming unless consumers vocally react on nps surveys AND with their wallets

Looking at the connected drive store, someone at bmw got behind this idea years ago and they invested a lot in making the idea work. They are going to keep trying.
Appreciate 0
      07-11-2022, 05:08 PM   #10
Equilibrandt
Auto/DCT Zealot
Equilibrandt's Avatar
United_States
381
Rep
315
Posts

Drives: M3, Miata
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Silver lining here:

If the cars comes with the Active Cruise Control radar, heating coils, etc. and you just have to pay to enable them, over the air...

That could mean that when you buy a clean, used example of whatever car/color you want, you can technically spec it out however you want, as opposed to playing the Goldilocks game of finding the perfect car with all the packages you wanted.

Owner didn't get ACC, ventilated seats, blind spot detection subscriptions when they bought/spec'd it? Doesn't matter, you're the owner now and can enable the features you want.

To be honest, even if this became a thing in the US, I'm sure most BMW buyers here would just pay the fee for "Lifetime" CarPlay, heated seats, adaptive cruise, etc. Just like they do now when building and ordering a car.
__________________
- 2017 BMW M3 Competition / Silverstone II / DCT
- 2020 Mazda MX-5 Grand Touring / Machine Grey / Soft Top / (Awaiting CARB-EO) Edelbrock Supercharger
Appreciate 1
wtwo314474.00
      07-11-2022, 05:18 PM   #11
TheBingoBalls
Brigadier General
TheBingoBalls's Avatar
Canada
3536
Rep
4,569
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Toronto, Ontario

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
I think everyone is getting worked up because they read the work "subscription" without seeing what this means on certain models.

The way I'm reading this, is that cars like M550i or higher trims won't have to deal with it because most of this comes standard anyway. I think this will be more applicable for base trims. Instead of manufacturing a base model, BMW will just build all models with these features.

If you're one to buy base models of anything, this will benefit you because you weren't going to pay for the option or a package anyway and at least you can enjoy a feature for a few bucks one or twice instead of buying the option from factory and never using it.

I don't think this is meant to replace anything - BMW will still over premium packages that will give you the options but for everyone else, it sort of benefits them.
Appreciate 0
      07-11-2022, 05:20 PM   #12
cooolone2
Lieutenant
cooolone2's Avatar
460
Rep
591
Posts

Drives: 20' M240iX B58, 01' 330XI E46
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: NY, USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Equilibrandt View Post
Silver lining here:

If the cars comes with the Active Cruise Control radar, heating coils, etc. and you just have to pay to enable them, over the air...

That could mean that when you buy a clean, used example of whatever car/color you want, you can technically spec it out however you want, as opposed to playing the Goldilocks game of finding the perfect car with all the packages you wanted.

Owner didn't get ACC, ventilated seats, blind spot detection subscriptions when they bought/spec'd it? Doesn't matter, you're the owner now and can enable the features you want.

To be honest, even if this became a thing in the US, I'm sure most BMW buyers here would just pay the fee for "Lifetime" CarPlay, heated seats, adaptive cruise, etc. Just like they do now when building and ordering a car.
Sorry, but the manufacturer retaining rights of access to amenities and function, like Tesla... A BIG NO! I buy it, I chose the options I PAY for, they're then mine! Want a Tesla, go buy one!

Leased vehicles are a different story! You don't own it! And just like today some manufacturers limiting resales, ie, retaining some sort of ownership rights when you purchase a vehicle is just insane! I buy it, and 6 months later I don't like it, I'm selling it, and it's none of your business for how much or to whom!

This is a serious shift or paradigm they're trying to implement that only beenfits them, nobody else. Lol

BMW has already tried it and failed... Hope that trend continues!
Appreciate 2
      07-11-2022, 06:12 PM   #13
Equilibrandt
Auto/DCT Zealot
Equilibrandt's Avatar
United_States
381
Rep
315
Posts

Drives: M3, Miata
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by cooolone2 View Post
Sorry, but the manufacturer retaining rights of access to amenities and function, like Tesla... A BIG NO! I buy it, I chose the options I PAY for, they're then mine! Want a Tesla, go buy one!
Sorry, I don't get what you're trying to argue here. You buy a car new, you choose the options you want and buy the car. You buy a car used, you're stuck with the options the previous owner chose.

Playing devil's advocate here: With this system, you can buy a car used, and choose which options you wanted to pay for (billed as 1 year, 3 years, or lifetime if the previous owner didn't). Just like you said when you "chose your options you PAY for".

For the record, I think subscriptions in an auto-space is a horrible idea. Just trying to encourage conversation about the other side.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls View Post
I think everyone is getting worked up because they read the work "subscription" without seeing what this means on certain models.
Rereading the article, I think you're right.

They'll build the 330i, 335i, and M340i the same, with all the packages included but disabled (other than engine changes). On the M340i, you'll have all the packages subscribed to for life, just like you do on a 2022 M340i right now. On the 330i, you'll have no packages; to keep the cost down, you can pick and choose. Gets rid of the 'have to find the perfect 330i' issue I'm sure many base-level BMW owners struggle with.
__________________
- 2017 BMW M3 Competition / Silverstone II / DCT
- 2020 Mazda MX-5 Grand Touring / Machine Grey / Soft Top / (Awaiting CARB-EO) Edelbrock Supercharger
Appreciate 0
      07-11-2022, 06:41 PM   #14
TheBingoBalls
Brigadier General
TheBingoBalls's Avatar
Canada
3536
Rep
4,569
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Toronto, Ontario

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Equilibrandt View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by cooolone2 View Post
Sorry, but the manufacturer retaining rights of access to amenities and function, like Tesla... A BIG NO! I buy it, I chose the options I PAY for, they're then mine! Want a Tesla, go buy one!
Sorry, I don't get what you're trying to argue here. You buy a car new, you choose the options you want and buy the car. You buy a car used, you're stuck with the options the previous owner chose.

Playing devil's advocate here: With this system, you can buy a car used, and choose which options you wanted to pay for (billed as 1 year, 3 years, or lifetime if the previous owner didn't). Just like you said when you "chose your options you PAY for".

For the record, I think subscriptions in an auto-space is a horrible idea. Just trying to encourage conversation about the other side.
I agree. I don't think the customer really loses out on anything. BMW benefits because they potentially collect a sale of an option multiple times if the car gets on the used market (assuming the option gets removed if an owner gets rid of the car).
Appreciate 0
      07-11-2022, 06:50 PM   #15
shawnhayes
Major
1264
Rep
1,027
Posts

Drives: 22 M5 CS, 23 X5E
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Virginia

iTrader: (0)

This has a potential HUGE big negative for the future.

Just ask any i3 owner who had a 3g modem who can now NOT ACESS any subscription service, and BMW's answer is "sorry you're screwed".

Imagine your 8 year old BMW disabling all your "subscription" services because it can't connect to the server. That's the reality for i3 owners NOW.

Don't get me wrong, this is a GREAT way for BMW to make more money and sell more cars, but it's to our deficit.

Shawn
Appreciate 4
Coi280.50
chris7196555.50
      07-11-2022, 07:13 PM   #16
LogicalApex
Colonel
1777
Rep
2,657
Posts

Drives: 2020 BMW 530xe
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Farmington, NY

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2020 BMW 530xe  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnhayes View Post
This has a potential HUGE big negative for the future.

Just ask any i3 owner who had a 3g modem who can now NOT ACESS any subscription service, and BMW's answer is "sorry you're screwed".

Imagine your 8 year old BMW disabling all your "subscription" services because it can't connect to the server. That's the reality for i3 owners NOW.

Don't get me wrong, this is a GREAT way for BMW to make more money and sell more cars, but it's to our deficit.

Shawn
This is why it is absolutely stupid. Features in the car become even more unstable than they already are. Car canít sync with BMW and now you are stuck without features. As you noted, when the cell connection dies, etc.

If BMW can build the car with the features they can sell it with them all enabled at the base price. After all, they are doing so in this model!
Appreciate 1
Coi280.50
      07-11-2022, 07:17 PM   #17
shawnhayes
Major
1264
Rep
1,027
Posts

Drives: 22 M5 CS, 23 X5E
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Virginia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicalApex View Post
This is why it is absolutely stupid. Features in the car become even more unstable than they already are. Car canít sync with BMW and now you are stuck without features. As you noted, when the cell connection dies, etc.

If BMW can build the car with the features they can sell it with them all enabled at the base price. After all, they are doing so in this model!
The only way I'd buy one with that is with a GUARANTEE that if the subscription service fails, under any circumstances is that all features will be enabled at the dealer FOR FREE.

Dammit. I just bought some more BMW stock recently because things were looking up. Crap.

Shawn
Appreciate 1
chris7196555.50
      07-11-2022, 07:51 PM   #18
Redd
Brigadier General
3315
Rep
3,717
Posts

Drives: 2010 BMW E92 M3 Dakar Edition
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Malaysia

iTrader: (0)

What next - pay per use ABS brakes? 😂
Appreciate 5
      07-11-2022, 07:54 PM   #19
wtwo3
Major General
wtwo3's Avatar
14474
Rep
5,011
Posts

Drives: 2023 X7 40i; 2023 M3
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: IL

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2023 BMW M3  [10.00]
2023 BMW X7 40i  [9.67]
I see this as a positive.

For those of us who were going to buy these feature anyway, we can pay the lifetime fee and not have to worry about any additional monthly subscription costs.

For those of us who might use certain features at certain points of the year depending on seasonality or just access to the car.... then you subscribe temporarily and there's your savings to be had.

Obviously benefits on the used market as well for buyers who can now just buy a single model and not have to worry about which features were and weren't optioned.

I think the benefit to BMW in this whole scenario is that they can now attract a new market of people who might want to "try" a feature which they wouldn't normally have optioned when buying new. And then convert those trials into actual sales.
__________________
2023 BMW X7 xdrive40i
2023 BMW M3 6MT

'20 BMW m340i... '20 BMW X5 40i... '16 Infiniti Q50 RS 400... '10 Lexus RX 350... '08 Lexus IS 350... '00 Nissan Maxima... '93 Nissan Maxima
Appreciate 1
      07-11-2022, 08:02 PM   #20
cooolone2
Lieutenant
cooolone2's Avatar
460
Rep
591
Posts

Drives: 20' M240iX B58, 01' 330XI E46
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: NY, USA

iTrader: (0)

It's not a pay per view TV episode! You buy it, you own it, it's yours! If you see the model they offer, there is options to buy, then that's ok. If the ONLY option is subscription, then sorry, but NO! Lease users may want this though because then they are only paying during their usage term, and that kind of makes sense. But really, they already make enough $$$ of the manufacture of the vehicle, why the nickel & dime stuff!? It takes away from the brand! Sorry!
Appreciate 1
      07-11-2022, 08:24 PM   #21
Coi
First Lieutenant
United_States
281
Rep
315
Posts

Drives: 21 X3 M40i, 07 Z4MR
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Cal

iTrader: (0)

Some people are seeing this as a potential price-reducing move but this will result in prices going up. This will not result in savings for anyone.

BMW would see increased costs across the board because they are manufacturing cruise control radars, heated seats, and heated steering wheels for cars of consumers that don't even want those features. They will not only need to recoup those additional costs but will try make a big profit of this. It's as simple as that. The subscription model for features in cars means overall price to the consumer will go up for the same vehicle/functionality.

Also the fact that they can make second owners pay for features all over again is just greedy if not unethical. That 3 year subscription is clearly designed so they can double dip. BMW could also easily disable everything "unlimited" the first owner paid for every time the car is for sale at the dealership. Imagine going in to get a used/CPO car and having to pay new-car pricing for all the options. This will also hurt resale value, which again is bad for new BMW owners.

The point shawnhayes brought up about the subscriptions being disactivated in the future is extremely important too. What if when 4G is no longer supported they discontinue connected drive on your car and all of a sudden you can't use the heated seats or adaptive cruise for pretty much no reason?

Anything where the price structure for the consumer doesn't reflect the cost structure of the seller should be carefully examined. There are no ongoing costs for BMW with putting these features in these cars, so there shouldn't be ongoing payment by the customer to keep them active. Charging a subscription to unblock a feature where the hardware is already there is a deeply anti-consumer move.
Appreciate 6
Kromans1120.00
Entropy89157.50
Mavus1970.50
      07-11-2022, 08:26 PM   #22
TheBingoBalls
Brigadier General
TheBingoBalls's Avatar
Canada
3536
Rep
4,569
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Toronto, Ontario

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by wtwo3 View Post
I see this as a positive.

For those of us who were going to buy these feature anyway, we can pay the lifetime fee and not have to worry about any additional monthly subscription costs.

For those of us who might use certain features at certain points of the year depending on seasonality or just access to the car.... then you subscribe temporarily and there's your savings to be had.

Obviously benefits on the used market as well for buyers who can now just buy a single model and not have to worry about which features were and weren't optioned.

I think the benefit to BMW in this whole scenario is that they can now attract a new market of people who might want to "try" a feature which they wouldn't normally have optioned when buying new. And then convert those trials into actual sales.
Exactly. People see "subscription" and think they're paying for a fully loaded BMW while still having to pay for a subscription to use options that are included. I'm sure there are concerns but it's more overreacting for nothing.

My next BMW I'm still going to spec the options that I want and will pay from factory. It's nice that there are other options that will be available should I want them through a subscription with the option to purchase lifetime fee.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
adaptive cruise control, bmw, connected drive, drive assistant, internet, subscription

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:05 PM.




zpost
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST