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View Poll Results: Who is the best driver?
Lewis Hamilton 54 83.08%
Max Verstappen 11 16.92%
Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll

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      10-26-2020, 06:22 AM   #155
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Max and Lewis fancy each other more in real life than the debate over here..
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      10-26-2020, 06:41 AM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yco View Post
anything i d say seems like already has been posted.. great posts cheers!
My friend,how about HAM and Max swap their CURRENT cars for a comparison of who is the best driver.
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      10-26-2020, 06:54 AM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
Meanwhile Hamilton haters are busy...
My friend . No hate here vs HAM .I even said congrats for the GOAT !
You said to me thank you to be sporty...That's really nice from you !

As for us the MAX fans , our issue is that we can't battle we equal machinery..
As you know the Merc has the most powerful PU of the field . DAS , the suspicious party-mode, tire cooling , and other hidden inventions ...

Regarding sporty : The advantage of the Merc is actually not sporty , as we can see It's always a Merc vs Merc race ...
Only MAX can (sometimes) split the Mercs and win a race ..
Only MAX can do it with less , and lack of HP . The other cars of the field having zero chance , and they know this the whole season !

I really wonder , why the others teams still participate because actually they look like fools ,idiots behind the steering wheel while the costs are hundreds of millions !

The Merc dominance my friend . That's the issue of the other teams and from us MAX fans !

Regarding the challenge from MAX . Let use hope that HAM and Toto agreed to swap cars .
It would show what are worth . Both of them !
And not only to test drive with a Merc from 2018..

As I said : I won't happen . Sadly !
Cheers my friend !


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      10-26-2020, 07:18 AM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yco View Post
Max and Lewis fancy each other more in real life than the debate over here..
That's what they show in front of the cams mate ...
On the track , MAX would love to get a dogfight with the Mercs .
Sadly as you know ,MAX has a lack of HP ..to beat the Mercs !

I already knew from at the Eifel , that MAX would challenge HAM to swap cars ..
Hope HAM has the b@lls to do it !

Otherwise HAM shows he's actually chicken...
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      10-26-2020, 08:11 AM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
That's what they show in front of the cams mate ...
On the track , MAX would love to get a dogfight with the Mercs .
Sadly as you know ,MAX has a lack of HP ..to beat the Mercs !

I already knew from at the Eifel , that MAX would challenge HAM to swap cars ..
Hope HAM has the b@lls to do it !

Otherwise HAM shows he's actually chicken...
You say this as if either of them owned the car, and they can just go do a track day with them anytime they want to compare lap times.

The teams own the cars, not the drivers. Let's see Toto or Horner agree to this. Imagine Horner's loss if Lewis posted a better time in the RB than Max. Or Toto's reaction if Max was faster in the Merc.

Too much to loose, particularly in the RB camp which tries to build up hype for Max. So it will never happen.

Toto has position and trophies to back up the marque and the drivers. No incentive for him at all.

PS. 6-1 margin for Ham being better than Max. Not working hard enough on marketing man!
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      10-26-2020, 08:40 AM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
My friend . No hate here vs HAM .I even said congrats for the GOAT !
You said to me thank you to be sporty...That's really nice from you !

As for us the MAX fans , our issue is that we can't battle we equal machinery..
As you know the Merc has the most powerful PU of the field . DAS , the suspicious party-mode, tire cooling , and other hidden inventions ...

Regarding sporty : The advantage of the Merc is actually not sporty , as we can see It's always a Merc vs Merc race ...
Only MAX can (sometimes) split the Mercs and win a race ..
Only MAX can do it with less , and lack of HP . The other cars of the field having zero chance , and they know this the whole season !

I really wonder , why the others teams still participate because actually they look like fools ,idiots behind the steering wheel while the costs are hundreds of millions !

The Merc dominance my friend . That's the issue of the other teams and from us MAX fans !

Regarding the challenge from MAX . Let use hope that HAM and Toto agreed to swap cars .
It would show what are worth . Both of them !
And not only to test drive with a Merc from 2018..

As I said : I won't happen . Sadly !
Cheers my friend !


I fully acknowledge that you congratulated him, my friend. Part of navigating F1 is navigating the politics, the teams, and seizing opportunities. The sport is littered with amazing drivers who made poor decisions or were toxic. The main case study in this is ALO. All of the talent in the world. Absolutely amazing driver. Shut down MSC. The toxicity of he and his manager, Flabio B cannot be overstated. Two MAJOR black eyes with blackmailing his team, (McLaren) and being involved in CrashGate (Renault). Think about this for a second. One time is an lack of judgement. Two times is a lack of character.

Max and Jos can be their own worse enemies. They should have taken a chance and teamed with Lewis in 2017. He was in his 2nd year in F1 at this point which is FAR more experienced in F1 vs Lewis who came into F1 against the reigning 2x F1 Champion who had just deposed MSC. This will go down as the seminal mistake of his career if he doesn't get into the Merc seat when Lewis retires. Max had a chance to show his mettle against HAM and refused to do so. Calling for something special now is a bit unseemly.

Max needs to direct all of this energy at Red Bull Racing and drag the leadership into a different culture, learn to control his own mouth, and a few other problems I see. He has the talent. Maybe as much as Lewis. He needs to put together the soft skills which Lewis has mastered and improve his brand which will make others come to him. Just as Mercedes did with Lewis. They came to him. The rest is history.

Cheers, my good friend!!
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      10-26-2020, 10:11 AM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
That's what they show in front of the cams mate ...
yes mate its of course in front of the camera but thats thing im saying.. still more than here..
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      10-26-2020, 02:40 PM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
As you know the Merc has the most powerful PU of the field .
Apparently the Merc PU puts out some 30 bhp more than the others....but then RB has the better aero package.
Don't blame Mercedes for making a better engine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
DAS
An ingenious and legal development that every team is free to copy

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
the suspicious party-mode
Suspicious in what way?
Its a perfectly legal setting that produces a small increase in power at the expense of stressing the engine more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
tire cooling ,
An legal system that every team is free to copy

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
and other hidden inventions ...
Such as?

Slandering Mercedes for having a better and perfectly legal car is pretty pathetic.
Especially when its Red Bull that have been caught out cheating in the past not Merecedes.
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      10-26-2020, 03:16 PM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants View Post
Apparently the Merc PU puts out some 30 bhp more than the others....but then RB has the better aero package.
Don't blame Mercedes for making a better engine.

An ingenious and legal development that every team is free to copy


Suspicious in what way?
Its a perfectly legal setting that produces a small increase in power at the expense of stressing the engine more.

An legal system that every team is free to copy


Such as?

Slandering Mercedes for having a better and perfectly legal car is pretty pathetic.
Especially when its Red Bull that have been caught out cheating in the past not Merecedes.
To say that we know Mercedes haven't bent/broken the rules in some manner is pretty naive, since that has always been the name of the game in F1. The most clever and sneaky constructors have always gained advantages like this in the past. Hard to believe 100% that they have nothing controversial in their car, given the tremendous (insert Trump hand gestures to accompany the word "tremendous") edge they have had.

I suppose it's always possible, but you only find out if somebody figures it out. Look how long VW was getting away with their B.S. "Clean diesel" tech lol. The best part was that other companies had already been caught for the same thing over a decade before, and it was a pretty blatant offense on a huge scale.
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      10-26-2020, 05:01 PM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartledoo View Post
To say that we know Mercedes haven't bent/broken the rules in some manner is pretty naive, since that has always been the name of the game in F1. The most clever and sneaky constructors have always gained advantages like this in the past. Hard to believe 100% that they have nothing controversial in their car, given the tremendous edge they have had.
So you are going with:
"Mercedes have an advantage so they must be cheating".
Combined with:
"Teams have cheated in the past so Mercedes must be cheating now".
Or taken to its logical conclusion...every team is cheating.

I guess the losers are always looking for an excuse why their team/driver isn't winning...seems like the idea that "they just aren't good enough" is too much to bear.

Its interesting that when the FIA redefined the fuel regulations for 2020 that both Ferrari and Honda suffered a drop off in power output.
No one wants to talk about Red Bull having a "cheating" PU just how Ferrari were affected.
By your logic...Red Bull simply need to improve their cheating if they want to compete with Mercedes.
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      10-26-2020, 06:05 PM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants View Post
So you are going with:
"Mercedes have an advantage so they must be cheating".
Combined with:
"Teams have cheated in the past so Mercedes must be cheating now".
Or taken to its logical conclusion...every team is cheating.

I guess the losers are always looking for an excuse why their team/driver isn't winning...seems like the idea that "they just aren't good enough" is too much to bear.

Its interesting that when the FIA redefined the fuel regulations for 2020 that both Ferrari and Honda suffered a drop off in power output.
No one wants to talk about Red Bull having a "cheating" PU just how Ferrari were affected.
By your logic...Red Bull simply need to improve their cheating if they want to compete with Mercedes.
If the concept of gray area is too difficult for you to understand then interpret it whatever way you'd like. Getting away with shit is part of the game whether you believe it or not.

Also, which "team" is it that I'm a part of and making excuses for? Didn't realize you were on the Mercedes team bigshot
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      10-26-2020, 07:13 PM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER View Post
You say this as if either of them owned the car, and they can just go do a track day with them anytime they want to compare lap times.

The teams own the cars, not the drivers. Let's see Toto or Horner agree to this. Imagine Horner's loss if Lewis posted a better time in the RB than Max. Or Toto's reaction if Max was faster in the Merc.

Too much to loose, particularly in the RB camp which tries to build up hype for Max. So it will never happen.

Toto has position and trophies to back up the marque and the drivers. No incentive for him at all.

PS. 6-1 margin for Ham being better than Max. Not working hard enough on marketing man!
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      10-26-2020, 07:19 PM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartledoo View Post
If the concept of gray area is too difficult for you to understand then interpret it whatever way you'd like. Getting away with shit is part of the game whether you believe it or not.
There is cheating...putting in lead shot post race to achieve minimum weight, running a second fuel tank, traction control, bendy wings etc....and there is innovation, where a new idea (such as DAS or tyre cooling) is legal within the regulations as written but maybe later deemed illegal by rewriting said regulations.

A team can (and do) request clarification if they would like to know if an "innovation" being run by a competitor (or being developed by themselves for their car) is legal within the current regulations...usually if the idea was considered borderline legal/illegal

If Mercedes were running a system that any other team or the FIA thought was illegal then it would be investigated.

There is no grey area per se...where the legality of something is open to interpretation...A system is either legal or illegal and that is decided by the FIA.

Mate I get it may seem difficult to comprehend, but just because a team is doing a better job than everyone else doesn't mean they are cheating...sure they could be but its not a given.
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      10-26-2020, 07:26 PM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants View Post
Apparently the Merc PU puts out some 30 bhp more than the others....but then RB has the better aero package.
Don't blame Mercedes for making a better engine.

An ingenious and legal development that every team is free to copy


Suspicious in what way?
Its a perfectly legal setting that produces a small increase in power at the expense of stressing the engine more.

An legal system that every team is free to copy


Such as?

Slandering Mercedes for having a better and perfectly legal car is pretty pathetic.
Especially when its Red Bull that have been caught out cheating in the past not Merecedes.
Sure mate . The Merc is the slowest car of the field !
But the Merc drivers are really amazing ...

The drivers of the Merc are farting pure octane while they drive , which make the Merc the fastest car of the decade !
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      10-26-2020, 08:15 PM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants View Post
There is cheating...putting in lead shot post race to achieve minimum weight, running a second fuel tank, traction control, bendy wings etc....and there is innovation, where a new idea (such as DAS or tyre cooling) is legal within the regulations as written but maybe later deemed illegal by rewriting said regulations.

A team can (and do) request clarification if they would like to know if an "innovation" being run by a competitor (or being developed by themselves for their car) is legal within the current regulations...usually if the idea was considered borderline legal/illegal

If Mercedes were running a system that any other team or the FIA thought was illegal then it would be investigated.

There is no grey area per se...where the legality of something is open to interpretation...A system is either legal or illegal and that is decided by the FIA.

Mate I get it may seem difficult to comprehend, but just because a team is doing a better job than everyone else doesn't mean they are cheating...sure they could be but its not a given.
1. These things are not always as obvious as DAS. For example, how long was Ferrari running their fuel flow trick?

2. There is definitely gray area.

3. If you read what I actually wrote you will see that I said it's hard to believe 100% that they don't have anything controversial, i.e. I didn't say they were cheating but of course understand it is possible that they have something which could be considered "cheating" since it has been common in F1 for quite some time.

3. I'm not your mate, guy.
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      10-26-2020, 08:39 PM   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartledoo View Post
1. These things are not always as obvious as DAS. For example, how long was Ferrari running their fuel flow trick?

2. There is definitely gray area.

3. If you read what I actually wrote you will see that I said it's hard to believe 100% that they don't have anything controversial, i.e. I didn't say they were cheating but of course understand it is possible that they have something which could be considered "cheating" since it has been common in F1 for quite some time.

3. I'm not your mate, guy.
Well said . Spot on !

There's "always" a reason why a car runs faster than another car ....
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      10-27-2020, 06:06 AM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartledoo View Post
1. These things are not always as obvious as DAS. For example, how long was Ferrari running their fuel flow trick?

2. There is definitely gray area.

3. If you read what I actually wrote you will see that I said it's hard to believe 100% that they don't have anything controversial, i.e. I didn't say they were cheating but of course understand it is possible that they have something which could be considered "cheating" since it has been common in F1 for quite some time.

3. I'm not your mate, guy.
1. Probably from the moment their performance suddenly took a significant uptick.
Despite living in Italy for a decade I have no love for Ferrari...they have form for running illegal systems.
But if there was room to game the fuel flow regulations that both Ferrari and Honda (but apparently not Mercedes) decided to exploit then, as you have noted, its all part of F1.
The FIA clarified the regulations to make it clear that they should cease using it.

2. If it makes you happy.

3. The cars are highly regulated and intensely scrutinised by the FIA to make sure they conform to the regulations as written.
https://www.fia.com/regulation/category/110
That the Mercedes has shown a performance advantage for nearly every year of the hybrid era years suggests that whatever the advantage they have is, on the balance of probabilities, legal.
Since:
The FIA have been unable to find anything illegal in the PU in the last 6 years.
During the natural exchange of personnel from one team to another, any secret illegal processes would most likely have been revealed.

3. I'm not your guy, mate.

I think it was Red Bull who said, when other teams complained of their dominant Vettel era....they need to do a better job.

Last edited by SenorFunkyPants; 10-27-2020 at 07:23 AM..
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      10-27-2020, 10:11 AM   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants View Post
1. Probably from the moment their performance suddenly took a significant uptick.
Despite living in Italy for a decade I have no love for Ferrari...they have form for running illegal systems.
But if there was room to game the fuel flow regulations that both Ferrari and Honda (but apparently not Mercedes) decided to exploit then, as you have noted, its all part of F1.
The FIA clarified the regulations to make it clear that they should cease using it.

2. If it makes you happy.

3. The cars are highly regulated and intensely scrutinised by the FIA to make sure they conform to the regulations as written.
https://www.fia.com/regulation/category/110
That the Mercedes has shown a performance advantage for nearly every year of the hybrid era years suggests that whatever the advantage they have is, on the balance of probabilities, legal.
Since:
The FIA have been unable to find anything illegal in the PU in the last 6 years.
During the natural exchange of personnel from one team to another, any secret illegal processes would most likely have been revealed.

3. I'm not your guy, mate.

I think it was Red Bull who said, when other teams complained of their dominant Vettel era....they need to do a better job.
Lmao just noticed the "3." twice. I think you win on that one.
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      10-27-2020, 10:40 AM   #173
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For the Record...

All of Lewis Hamilton's records in one place.

After Lewis Hamilton broke the record for most race wins at the Portuguese Grand Prix, Formula 1 gathered all of the Britonís records. Here they are in on place!
Lewis Hamiltonís Formula 1 Records

Most Race Wins: 92
Most Poles: 97
Most Podiums: 161
Most Consecutive Starts: 262
Most Races Led: 159
Most Races Led Start To Finish: 22
Most Front Row Starts: 156
Most Career Points: 3687
Most Points Finishes: 225
Most Points In A Season: 413
Most Points In A Debut Season: 109
Most Wins At Home Grand Prix: 7
Most Circuits Won At: 28
Most Different GPs Won: 27
Most Circuits Taking Pole: 29
Most Different GPs Taking Pole: 27
Most Different GPs With Podium Finish: 30
Consecutive Seasons With A Win Since Debut: 14
Consecutive Seasons With A Pole Position: 14
Consecutive Points Finishes: 45
Consecutive Podiums From Debut: 9
Consecutive Races Led: 18
Consecutive Race Finishes: 45
Longest Time Between First And Last World Titles: 4,018 days
Youngest World Championship Leader: 22 years, 126 days
Most Wins In A Calendar Month: 4
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      10-27-2020, 11:42 AM   #174
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when a guy does something wrong.. it doesnt mean that the rest of humanity will do the same.. there can be potential for each individual to do the same though.. but it doesnt mean that the rest of the humanity is in gray area cause some of them cant even open their eyes or they wont even have the same thoughts with that guy.. so if Mercedes is doing a great work and they re being inspected pretty frequently recently but still everything is legal.. you cant call them cheaters.. actually you can but it wont be factual..

if Red Bull is losing some time on the straights only means its their problem.. this is F1.. it doesnt mean that Merc' is cheating.. Ferrari's case was different.. as i ve said FIA is trying to find something wrong with Merc'.. but there is nothing.. so calling them a cheater can be a belief or stereotype only.. some do the same job better than others.. but it doesnt mean that they re not playing the game not according to the rule book or they re in a gray area..

same engine is being used by other teams as well.. so its not only a horsepower thing..
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      10-27-2020, 12:00 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by yco View Post
when a guy does something wrong.. it doesnt mean that the rest of humanity will do the same.. there can be potential for each individual to do the same though.. but it doesnt mean that the rest of the humanity is in gray area cause some of them cant even open their eyes or they wont even have the same thoughts with that guy.. so if Mercedes is doing a great work and they re being inspected pretty frequently recently but still everything is legal.. you cant call them cheaters.. actually you can but it wont be factual..

if Red Bull is losing some time on the straights only means its their problem.. this is F1.. it doesnt mean that Merc' is cheating.. Ferrari's case was different.. as i ve said FIA is trying to find something wrong with Merc'.. but there is nothing.. so calling them a cheater can be a belief or stereotype only.. some do the same job better than others.. but it doesnt mean that they re not playing the game not according to the rule book or they re in a gray area..

same engine is being used by other teams as well.. so its not only a horsepower thing..
Well said!

Consider the tRacing Point Pink W10. Based on their belief, it should be finishing immediately behind the Works Mercedes F1 cars in each race.

Reality tells us something much different.

Several races back, Martin Brundle got on tRacing Point saying that they are not using the W10 to full effect.

But it's just the car.
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      10-27-2020, 02:01 PM   #176
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For the, "It's just the car" crowd.

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