Biker Gang and Land Rover Incident in NYC

[pgviper]

Originally Posted by MMMCOOKIES335...

I wish the whole video was shown, would be nice to get the whole story.

Completely agree.

[E90-F30]

Originally Posted by turbolag

I live in a part of NY state where guns are legal (Upstate). I don't carry. I should, though...or just move to a state where people's aren't so anal about guns.

But I found this: http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloa...msComplete.pdf

So...

EDIT: any one of y'all Texans/gun users willing to answer if a handgun would be enough to take out the entire gang or just a few? I'm assuming only a few, right?

And how would you shoot? Roll down the window, blast a few point-blank into their faces? What if you miss and hit someone else? Not against firearms at all, just interested.

About the RR...why didn't he just run them over? He had grounds for self-defense at that point. You mob someone's 5000 lb car with intent to assault? Fucking get your ass out of there. The safety of idiots<safety of your wife and child.

There's no such thing as a carry law for handguns in NYS...

They call it concealed carry, but in liberal terms that means "gun in a case without being loaded driving to a gun range."

[Samurai of 2day]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

Here is the thing... if you were alone in a patrol car and came up behind a group of bikes that didn't yield to your lights and siren what would you do? With so many of them, likely without proper plates etc... they could just sit there. Even if they didn't have proper plates and didn't yield to the officer, if the officer hit them they would have a legal field day with the police.

Say you are the office and you do some how get in the middle of the group when the RR was stopped any one of the 3 times. What do you do? Are you worried about the mob lynching you when you try to intervene?

I think the cops opt to stay away from the biker gangs when they are out riding. They risk vs reward is way out of balance. Best case scenario is that they are able to stop a hand full of bikers.... to do what, issue a traffic citation? So they stay away from them because they can't be seen close to these rides while not doing anything. And doing something is likely more dangerous than it is rewarding.

This is why cops are not obligated to protect citizens. They are not forced by law, job description, or anything for that matter to put their life in harms way for your safety. For this reason, we need laws that allow us to protect ourselves by any means necessary for any particular situation.

Realistic point of view. For the past few years, there are quite a few occasions where NYPD officers have been slammed by the public so hard for just doing their job that even if they were on the scene and decided to put a stop to this incident, somebody would complain and rage about someone's rights being violated.

It would be ideal if we as responsible individuals were afforded the opportunity to defend ourselves, unfortunately, if you residence falls within NYC jurisdiction, you need to be a victim, not a hero. Or you will be incarcerated if you try to protect yourself of your loved ones

[nullrouted]

Originally Posted by turbolag

I live in a part of NY state where guns are legal (Upstate). I don't carry. I should, though...or just move to a state where people's aren't so anal about guns.

But I found this: http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloa...msComplete.pdf

So...

EDIT: any one of y'all Texans/gun users willing to answer if a handgun would be enough to take out the entire gang or just a few? I'm assuming only a few, right?

And how would you shoot? Roll down the window, blast a few point-blank into their faces? What if you miss and hit someone else? Not against firearms at all, just interested.

About the RR...why didn't he just run them over? He had grounds for self-defense at that point. You mob someone's 5000 lb car with intent to assault? Fucking get your ass out of there. The safety of idiots<safety of your wife and child.

How many can really surround the vehicle at one time? That's the pertinent question. Standard carry in the vehicle would be at least my XD-M .40 with 14+1 and at least 1 extra 14 round clip. If I've got a friend/wife/whatever with me, that doubles that effective count. So for this example, let's say there were 2. That's a total of nearly 60 rounds of ammunition and targets that can be engaged at essentially point blank range. The front of the car is a weapon in and of itself, the rear is irrelevant, so you only have to deal with the sides. Florida castle doctrine states that any attempt to unlawfully enter an occupied vehicle is enough to invoke the statute. The fact that there is a large group of attackers just solidifies the self-defense claim. Therefore, we would stop the car if progress was impeded, and prepare to fire on the approach. As soon as one touched a door handle, or broke a window, as in this case -- they would immediately be shot point blank to the chest by a .40 caliber hydroshock (or similar) JHP round -- .40 has sufficient 'knock-down' power to send them reeling and seriously injured, or dead. At most you've got what, 5-6 men on either side of the car? If each occupant can fire at an average rate of even 1 round every 3 seconds (slow), that means both sides of the car are now a pile of bodies within a mere 20 seconds or so. I highly doubt the assault would continue at that point, because the sheer overwhelming shock of that many dead so quickly would likely scatter them. And if this was FL, all you'd have to do is phone the police to clean up the mess you'd made. Macabre, but statistics have shown that the more gun ownership there is in a city/state/municipality, the lower the crime. When everyone owns a gun, we are all more polite.

[jasonX]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3cd_1380579664

A collection of videos from that day that dispels that the bikers were obeying the law. From same Helmet Cam as the video which is circulating the media.

Let's list some of the things that were clearly illegal

Lane Splitting
Passing/Driving on Shoulder
Passing/Driving on Sidewalk
ATV on Public Roads
Dirt Bike on Public Roads (believe that's illegal)
Making Left Turns from Center Unmarked Lane
Wreckless Driving
Speeding
Wheelies (probably falls under wreckless driving).

The dude was also arrested 6 months earlier for driving with a suspended license.

[Maestro]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

Here is the thing... if you were alone in a patrol car and came up behind a group of bikes that didn't yield to your lights and siren what would you do? With so many of them, likely without proper plates etc... they could just sit there. Even if they didn't have proper plates and didn't yield to the officer, if the officer hit them they would have a legal field day with the police.

Say you are the office and you do some how get in the middle of the group when the RR was stopped any one of the 3 times. What do you do? Are you worried about the mob lynching you when you try to intervene?

I think the cops opt to stay away from the biker gangs when they are out riding. They risk vs reward is way out of balance. Best case scenario is that they are able to stop a hand full of bikers.... to do what, issue a traffic citation? So they stay away from them because they can't be seen close to these rides while not doing anything. And doing something is likely more dangerous than it is rewarding.

This is why cops are not obligated to protect citizens. They are not forced by law, job description, or anything for that matter to put their life in harms way for your safety. For this reason, we need laws that allow us to protect ourselves by any means necessary for any particular situation.

This is exactly what I was thinking.

My buddy in high school race moto cross so from time to time he would race his Bike on the streets and local woods. It was just one kid riding and pissing the neighbors off. He use to get chased by the police and most time he would zip off into the woods and be gone. Even though they were pretty sure who he was, there was not much they could do since they could not prove it was him riding and they did try. As you can image in a rural area the police were getting pissed at not catching him. One day one of the officers laid in wait for him and when he came down a dirt road the office pulled out in from of him, but missed time it and end hitting my friend and knocking him into a barbed wired fence. Needless to say the friend broke his leg, almost server his neck from getting tied up in the fence.

In the end the friend sued the police department and won, he was an ass considering he created this situation and should not have sued for his stupidity. Because of this situation the police were ordered not to chase kids on motorcycles especially if they were off road. So we had a field day after that, police would not give kids a second look for riding dirt bikes on the road.

To your point the risk is too high for the police to deal with these idiots and they know it. This is why they get away with it.

[nullrouted]

Originally Posted by Maestro

This is exactly what I was thinking.

To your point the risk is too high for the police to deal with these idiots and they know it. This is why they get away with it.

Absolutely correct, which is why we all need to take our security personally, and be trained and prepared to deal with any situation we might encounter.

[nicknaz]

Very disturbing video.

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by nullrouted

How many can really surround the vehicle at one time? That's the pertinent question. Standard carry in the vehicle would be at least my XD-M .40 with 14+1 and at least 1 extra 14 round clip. If I've got a friend/wife/whatever with me, that doubles that effective count. So for this example, let's say there were 2. That's a total of nearly 60 rounds of ammunition and targets that can be engaged at essentially point blank range. The front of the car is a weapon in and of itself, the rear is irrelevant, so you only have to deal with the sides. Florida castle doctrine states that any attempt to unlawfully enter an occupied vehicle is enough to invoke the statute. The fact that there is a large group of attackers just solidifies the self-defense claim. Therefore, we would stop the car if progress was impeded, and prepare to fire on the approach. As soon as one touched a door handle, or broke a window, as in this case -- they would immediately be shot point blank to the chest by a .40 caliber hydroshock (or similar) JHP round -- .40 has sufficient 'knock-down' power to send them reeling and seriously injured, or dead. At most you've got what, 5-6 men on either side of the car? If each occupant can fire at an average rate of even 1 round every 3 seconds (slow), that means both sides of the car are now a pile of bodies within a mere 20 seconds or so. I highly doubt the assault would continue at that point, because the sheer overwhelming shock of that many dead so quickly would likely scatter them. And if this was FL, all you'd have to do is phone the police to clean up the mess you'd made. Macabre, but statistics have shown that the more gun ownership there is in a city/state/municipality, the lower the crime. When everyone owns a gun, we are all more polite.

Without making this a gun rights thread, I totally agree that when everyone has a gun everyone is polite. Just google Kennesaw, GA.

But to everyone reading this, don't mistake what we might or would do in this situation with what we would WANT to do. No one deserving of carrying a concealed weapon WANTS to be in this situation. I know that i speak for the vast majority of CCL holders when i say that i hope i never have to use my weapon in self defense.

...But if i have to, i will be ready.

[Litos]

dude that initially brake checked the RR is now in police custody HAHAHA !!!!

and there was some other dude that was riding almost directly next to the RR as it was getting brake checked - well, that dude apparently got run the fuck over and is in a coma HAHAHA !!!!

"...broken spine, broken ribs, crushed lungs, busted aorta, etc..."

that's what you get, bro......you can't pretend your life is identical to the movie Torque....

[Templar]

The animal that started smashing my window in would have been the first one blown away. If they kept coming, they'd all get shot. I'm not letting some wanna-be crotch rocket thugs get near my family like that. I would have probably tried to throw it into reverse and run over whatever idiot was behind me on a bike, and tried to get away as quickly as possible after the few of them scatter at their buddies guts being all over the street.

Even if I went to prison, not a single fuck would be given, as long as my wife and kid were safe...

[F1Venom]

lol, I agree with this.

[u2b][/u2b]

[Sara]

Originally Posted by Litos

dude that initially brake checked the RR is now in police custody HAHAHA !!!!

and there was some other dude that was riding almost directly next to the RR as it was getting brake checked - well, that dude apparently got run the fuck over and is in a coma HAHAHA !!!!

"...broken spine, broken ribs, crushed lungs, busted aorta, etc..."

that's what you get, bro......you can't pretend your life is identical to the movie Torque....

THIS

[nullrouted]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

Without making this a gun rights thread, I totally agree that when everyone has a gun everyone is polite. Just google Kennesaw, GA.

But to everyone reading this, don't mistake what we might or would do in this situation with what we would WANT to do. No one deserving of carrying a concealed weapon WANTS to be in this situation. I know that i speak for the vast majority of CCL holders when i say that i hope i never have to use my weapon in self defense.

...But if i have to, i will be ready.

+1 -- Important distinction.

[LDSM]

...

[KingOfJericho]

How many more people are going to post the same fucking video?

[Sam335ix]

http://nypost.com/2013/10/01/cops-bust-bike-thug/

They got whats coming to them... Eff them all, even though I feel bad for the paralyzed dude its his own @#$#@$ fault. To every action there is a reaction, he should have known better.

[Takeshi]

These guys think they're bad ass cuz theyre in a big group chasing 1 guy and that 1 guy is running away. I bet if that one guy stopped running and turned his Range Rover around 180 degrees and pointed it right at them, most of them would think twice about approaching.

There might be one or two guys that try to be the "hero" of the group and thinks the Range Rover is bluffing and dares the Rover to run him over. You warn that dumb ass that your family is in your car and you will fucking kill him if he gets closer. If he doesn't listen, you make an example of him and run his ass over on full throttle.

You can't outrun a bike, especially not in NYC traffic. He clearly tried already. And you can't kill all 50 of them, but you can kill the first motherfucker that approaches your family and I bet the rest of them just sit there confused until NYPD shows up

They just wanna be a bad ass in front of their friends, but if they know you are willing to kill them to protect your family, they're not gonna do shit. Even if you hit one of them, they're not gonna go crazy and get revenge if they believe they could be killed too. Besides, most people on these rides are probably just random ppl signing up on a forum or friends of friends. Chances are most of them are not close enough friends with the guy you hit to risk his own life to try and give you some street justice. (They'll risk their lives in a dangerous high speed chance, since they enjoy that kind of shit, but they won't play chicken with a Range Rover that's pointed at them)

[Litos]

Originally Posted by Takeshi

And you can't kill all 50 of them, but you can kill the first motherfucker that approaches your family and I bet the rest of them just sit there confused until NYPD shows up

that's what i explained about 20 posts ago.

when one gets run over or shot, the rest of them will think "holy fuck, i don't think it's a good idea to go near that car right now".

[Sam335ix]

Originally Posted by Litos

that's what i explained about 20 posts ago.

when one gets run over or shot, the rest of them will think "holy fuck, i don't think it's a good idea to go near that car right now".

The issues is those morons did get run over and still gave chase. He should have backed up and ran over a few then pull forward and run over a few more.

[Samurai of 2day]

Originally Posted by F1Venom

lol, I agree with this.

[u2b][/u2b]

Sorry, but the guy in the video sound like a complete moron. His mannerism is just foolish. Clownish in fact.

To all of you who enjoy open roads, twisties, driving, and or cars in general, please keep in mind that just because someone rides a sport bike, or any other bike for that matter, that does not mean that they are just out looking for trouble or some young knuckle head waiting for you to teach them a lesson.

At the risk of sounding like some sort of preacher or religious advocate...
"judge not, lest ye be judged"

Basically, it's not cool to stereotype people just on their preferred mode of transport... we have seen many threads from our fellow forum members crying about how we Bimmer/Beamer owners are treated by others... and ourselves...

[DougLikesBMW]

Would kill everyone there without a single bit of remorse if it meant protecting my wife and child.

Most people are total shitstains so not a single fuck would be given.