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      02-18-2021, 02:35 PM   #1981
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Wasn't the 93-97 Supra not a big hit with consumers? Too expensive for a Toyota was the general consensus at least in my circle-I had just entered driving age at the time. Sales were so bad it basically killed the Supra didn't it? It was the aftermarket and tuning potential as a used car that made the Supra iconic.
My understanding of the era was that a lot of it had to do with economic factors outside of Toyota's control. The end of the japanese bubble economy and exchange rates kind of killed the car more than anything else. It was released to pretty glowing reviews at the time and people who were into Japanese cars revered it from day one.

No denying that the car had a second life thanks to the tuning potential, but it wasn't as unloved as the sales numbers would have you believe when it came out, it was more a victim of circumstance.
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      02-18-2021, 03:14 PM   #1982
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Slower and heavier?
That all depends on how they built it. So no....not necessarily
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      02-18-2021, 03:33 PM   #1983
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Originally Posted by Moflow View Post
My understanding of the era was that a lot of it had to do with economic factors outside of Toyota's control. The end of the japanese bubble economy and exchange rates kind of killed the car more than anything else. It was released to pretty glowing reviews at the time and people who were into Japanese cars revered it from day one.

No denying that the car had a second life thanks to the tuning potential, but it wasn't as unloved as the sales numbers would have you believe when it came out, it was more a victim of circumstance.
I remember the styling being love it or hate it, with the MK3 being sleek and the MK4 being pudgy. Maybe because I used to drool at my Uncle's Mk3 Supra and Widebody Starion that I didn't really take too warmly to the MK4. Being only a teen at the time, the economy was foreign to me, so I had no idea at the time why it wasn't selling. Just that there wasn't much discussion on the MK4 in my group of wide-eyed lead footed friends that used to go drag racing and run from the cops on the weekends. Weight was another thing I remember being brought up quite often.

It's important to note, however, aftermarket notwithstanding, the Mk5 is lighter, more powerful, better handling, and faster than the MK4 Supra and is still impressive compared to the competition. Tuning to 1000hp is not my thing, but the lack of a manual is admittedly a mistake. Name it something other than a Supra and I don't see why there is so much hate. MK4 fans want a Supra that is made by Toyota, is tunable to 1000hp, and looks like a MK4 Supra. They have one and it's called the MK4 Supra.
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      02-18-2021, 03:48 PM   #1984
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Why does everyone keep bring up the A80's weight? It's about the same as the 300zx and way less than the 3000GT VR-4 (3,7xx lbs).

Personally, I didn't want it look like an A80. I was hoping it was going to look like the FT-1. You know the car that they cock teased us with nonstop for years.
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      02-18-2021, 03:50 PM   #1985
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I think most people and especially people who were excited about it coming back out just thought it would be more bad ass. Shit, 400 HP is nothing these days. I feel the same with these new M 3/4 cars. I want more power!!! LOL. Maybe cause I bought my GTR 11 years ago and it had 485 HP all those years ago, I'm asking to much for BMW's holy grail to have more out of the box. I don't know. I've been stuck on ordering an RS6 or waiting for the Z06 to come out. Maybe down the road come back to an M car. Time will tell
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      02-18-2021, 03:52 PM   #1986
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supra93 View Post
Why does everyone keep bring up the A80's weight? It's about the same as the 300zx and way less than the 3000GT VR-4 (3,7xx lbs).

Personally, I didn't want it look like an A80. I was hoping it was going to look like the FT-1. You know the car that they cock tease us with nonstop for years.
Again this!!!!!! Not even close to what they were saying. Like taking a warm wash clothe and removing her make-up the next morning. FALSE ADVERTISING !!
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      02-18-2021, 04:01 PM   #1987
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Originally Posted by supra93 View Post
Why does everyone keep bring up the A80's weight? It's about the same as the 300zx and way less than the 3000GT VR-4 (3,7xx lbs).

Personally, I didn't want it look like an A80. I was hoping it was going to look like the FT-1. You know the car that they cock tease us with nonstop for years.
True, the 300ZX and 3000GT were the closest competition to the MK5 Supra, but you have to remember what were the most popular rice rockets were at the time: RX-7, Eclipse GS-T, Integra, Civic... the 3000GT was also considered too heavy. I'm merely stating what I remember people were saying at the time, wether or not it is true in retrospect.
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      02-18-2021, 04:06 PM   #1988
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
True, the 300ZX and 3000GT were the closest competition to the MK5 Supra, but you have to remember what were the most popular rice rockets were at the time: RX-7, Eclipse GS-T, Integra, Civic... the 3000GT was also considered too heavy. I'm merely stating what I remember people were saying at the time, wether or not it is true in retrospect.
If you owned a FD RX7 you would know why it weights so little. Ok, of course FWD eco cars will weight less, in other news... Just because people repeat nonsense doesn't mean you should too.
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      02-18-2021, 04:10 PM   #1989
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
True, the 300ZX and 3000GT were the closest competition to the MK5 Supra, but you have to remember what were the most popular rice rockets were at the time: RX-7, Eclipse GS-T, Integra, Civic... the 3000GT was also considered too heavy. I'm merely stating what I remember people were saying at the time, wether or not it is true in retrospect.
Out of those cars, the RX-7 was the least seen by far in the North east. I lived at the Philly Street races for years They were always cool to see
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      02-18-2021, 04:23 PM   #1990
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Originally Posted by supra93 View Post
If you owned a FD RX7 you would know why it weights so little. Ok, of course FWD eco cars will weight less, in other news... Just because people repeat nonsense doesn't mean you should too.
The discussion was about how the MK4 Supra was received at the time. That was what I remember hearing at the time. I'm repeating it as an account of what people said at the time. It would be nonsense to lie and say everyone universally loved the MK4. I'm not saying they were factually right, just that they actually said it. That's all.

In that context, given how it actually wasn't that iconic off the lot, more after the fact, then maybe we are being too harsh on the GR Supra. It's still fairly new and actually isn't getting as much a negative a reaction other than what I already mentioned: It has to live up to the Supra name and it doesn't come in a manual. Other than that, it seems to be a fine track toy (with some mods of course). I really don't understand all the hate. We don't have many options out there, everyone seems to be catering to the lowest common denominator of more power and 0-60 times, or lightweight cars with no guts (86, MX-5). I welcome a 300hp+, sub 3400lb car. Just wish it had a manual.
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      02-18-2021, 04:41 PM   #1991
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
The discussion was about how the MK4 Supra was received at the time. That was what I remember hearing at the time. I'm repeating it as an account of what people said at the time. It would be nonsense to lie and say everyone universally loved the MK4. I'm not saying they were factually right, just that they actually said it. That's all.

In that context, given how it actually wasn't that iconic off the lot, more after the fact, then maybe we are being too harsh on the GR Supra. It's still fairly new and actually isn't getting as much a negative a reaction other than what I already mentioned: It has to live up to the Supra name and it doesn't come in a manual. Other than that, it seems to be a fine track toy (with some mods of course). I really don't understand all the hate. We don't have many options out there, everyone seems to be catering to the lowest common denominator of more power and 0-60 times, or lightweight cars with no guts (86, MX-5). I welcome a 300hp+, sub 3400lb car. Just wish it had a manual.
The real discussion is about the Zupra, however the thread keeps getting derailed. IIRC, performance wise the A80 was received pretty well in most reviews and comparison test. Never said everyone out there loved the A80. There isn't XXX car that is going make everyone happy. To me the past 3 or so pages have just been people posting half truths.

I don't necessarily disagree with most of the second half of your post. I feel I have been fairly neutral on the matter.

Last edited by supra93; 02-18-2021 at 04:47 PM..
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      02-18-2021, 04:46 PM   #1992
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
We don't have many options out there, everyone seems to be catering to the lowest common denominator of more power and 0-60 times, or lightweight cars with no guts (86, MX-5). I welcome a 300hp+, sub 3400lb car.* Just wish it had a manual.

*That isn't a Nissan



(i wouldn't buy a 370Z either, but it is literally all of those things you mentioned with a base price of about $30K)

Back on topic, I also think the Zupra gets a bit too much hate, though i'm completely floored that they didn't offer a M/T. I'd have bought that car and not the M2 if they had put a M/T in it.
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      02-19-2021, 01:28 PM   #1993
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Yes, let's please get back on topic.

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      02-19-2021, 02:13 PM   #1994
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Eh. Just doesn't do a damn thing for me. I agree with @supra93 the FT-1 should have been the car they made with a true DCT or a manual option and a new strait 6 turbo built by Toyota
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      02-19-2021, 05:35 PM   #1995
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Originally Posted by evil-G-nius View Post
Eh. Just doesn't do a damn thing for me. I agree with @supra93 the FT-1 should have been the car they made with a true DCT or a manual option and a new strait 6 turbo built by Toyota
A DCT would have helped big. I love my DCT!
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      02-27-2021, 08:47 PM   #1996
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      03-01-2021, 08:27 AM   #1997
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Did the FT-1 concept look better... sure but, I do like the look of the new Supra. The thing I like is that Toyota made minute changes for reliability which would be nice to have vs owning the BMW version long term. If only Toyota diverged away from BMW with respect to the transmission choice. C'mon. Adopt BMW's DCT already and charge extra for it if you won't do a manual but, conventional automatics do not belong in sports cars!
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      03-01-2021, 07:43 PM   #1998
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      03-02-2021, 02:18 AM   #1999
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I really don’t see the point in offering the 2.0l.
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      03-02-2021, 08:21 AM   #2000
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I really don’t see the point in offering the 2.0l.
It make sense for the EU and Japan with emission and engine tax displacement. However for the U.S. not so much imo. Toyota has only predicted a 20% rate for the 2.0. A TX dealer is saying no one is buying them. I think few places like CA seems to have less of an issue moving the 2.0s.

I think once the 400Z is release Toyota will either drop the 2.0 altogether, heavy discount it, and or revisit it with updates in-order to better compete with what Nissan is offering.
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      03-02-2021, 08:27 AM   #2001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supra93 View Post
It make sense for the EU and Japan with emission and engine tax displacement. However for the U.S. not so much imo. Toyota has only predicted a 20% rate for the 2.0. A TX dealer is saying no one is buying them. I think few places like CA seems to have less of an issue moving the 2.0s.

I think once the 400Z is release Toyota will either drop the 2.0 altogether, heavy discount it, and or revisit it with updates in-order to better compete with what Nissan is offering.
Hopefully once the Z is released with a manual , toyota will get their act together mx release a manual B58 A90
I'm still holding out for S55 DCT A90
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      03-02-2021, 10:28 AM   #2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supra93 View Post
It make sense for the EU and Japan with emission and engine tax displacement. However for the U.S. not so much imo. Toyota has only predicted a 20% rate for the 2.0. A TX dealer is saying no one is buying them. I think few places like CA seems to have less of an issue moving the 2.0s.

I think once the 400Z is release Toyota will either drop the 2.0 altogether, heavy discount it, and or revisit it with updates in-order to better compete with what Nissan is offering.
Hopefully once the Z is released with a manual , toyota will get their act together mx release a manual B58 A90
I'm still holding out for S55 DCT A90
Yes please. They are just putting things in the chamber to help boost sales periodically.

2021: more power

2022: manual

2023: T-Top
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