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      05-17-2018, 09:38 PM   #23
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I only hope it will be better looking than their i3 model.
I3 is not ugly. Its not aggressive but its not ugly.

INext looks interesting but hope its not a wagon or suv. In 3 years bmw will find out based on tesla whether there is a market for electric affordable sporty cars (model 3). My guess is that the market is still very limited (despite teslas 500k fully refundable preorders cough), and bmw is thinking that too. This car will be able to fit either a niche mkt or it will be scalable to serious market capture.
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      05-17-2018, 11:02 PM   #24
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Why wouldn't 440 Gran Coupe built as an electric vehicle be a good place to start?
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      05-17-2018, 11:04 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
It's definitely a good car objectively, but sales show the public would rather not be seen in one.

Basically, every EV type car in existence has had this issue besides Tesla, for obvious reasons.
Famous quote: "The first revolution is when you change your mind, about how you look at things, and realize there is another way to look at it that you have not been shown".

Dude, the "public" are seen daily driving around in Camrys, Corrollas, Rav 4s, and F-150s, so what do they know?

I like tradition also. Many who've read my many posts in the 3 series area on BMW tradition and history know this.

However, you must note the transition going on here. The Internal Combustion Engine is on it's deathbed. So is traditional ICE design like jmg said earlier. The "i" line is a move into the future of the automobile. Sure, some of the designs are hard to accept at first, but when you understand what's going on, it becomes easier to accept.

Ignorance in all forms always manifests itself in fear, dissension, and hate. If you don't understand EVs, you may tend to not like any part of the subject.

I hated hybrids like the Prius to no end; still do. Why, because there was nothing futuristic in a hybrid as they still drove on gas. The silly, flaccid looks pointed to softness.

Most EVs took on this same esthetic, think Nissan Leaf. However, most men want either something aggressive looking or purposeful. The i3 is totally purposeful in it's execution and this was attractive to me. I gave the car a chance, did my research, took time to survey the environment, then started to view things in a different light.

Worst thing you can ever do is be the last person to "get it". Think Apple, Facebook, or Bitcoin.
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      05-17-2018, 11:27 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rolltidef32 View Post
Famous quote: "The first revolution is when you change your mind, about how you look at things, and realize there is another way to look at it that you have not been shown".

Dude, the "public" are seen daily driving around in Camrys, Corrollas, Rav 4s, and F-150s, so what do they know?

I like tradition also. Many who've read my many posts in the 3 series area on BMW tradition and history know this.

However, you must note the transition going on here. The Internal Combustion Engine is on it's deathbed. So is traditional ICE design like jmg said earlier. The "i" line is a move into the future of the automobile. Sure, some of the designs are hard to accept at first, but when you understand what's going on, it becomes easier to accept.

Ignorance in all forms always manifests itself in fear, dissension, and hate. If you don't understand EVs, you may tend to not like any part of the subject.

I hated hybrids like the Prius to no end; still do. Why, because there was nothing futuristic in a hybrid as they still drove on gas. The silly, flaccid looks pointed to softness.

Most EVs took on this same esthetic, think Nissan Leaf. However, most men want either something aggressive looking or purposeful. The i3 is totally purposeful in it's execution and this was attractive to me. I gave the car a chance, did my research, took time to survey the environment, then started to view things in a different light.

Worst thing you can ever do is be the last person to "get it". Think Apple, Facebook, or Bitcoin.
Some people bought Pontiac Aztecs also.
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      05-17-2018, 11:36 PM   #27
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      05-17-2018, 11:55 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by rolltidef32 View Post
Of course I'm biased, but I also think the i3s looks nice. I justify my purchase with skipping the gas station and still drive a very fun car.

Mentioned the previous cars to say that I know what performance driving feels like; including on track. the i3 grows on you, just as this vehicle and future EVs will do over time.

You just have to open your mind to it.
It's definitely a good car objectively, but sales show the public would rather not be seen in one.

Basically, every EV type car in existence has had this issue besides Tesla, for obvious reasons.
The i3 is too expensive for what the general public is willing to pay for. A carbon Fiber tub isn't necessary anymore with current battery technology. Carbon fiber roof as well as all the fancy "green" materials inside that I quite enjoy, but is a trade-off for automatic seats and a full camera system. Sales are poor mainly because of the range. But go into any semi-affluent neighborhood and you will see more i3s than Prius and Bolts. Tesla is the winner in the upscale EV market because of the S and X. The 3 is strong as well, but I don't know if even the 3 will be able to compete any longer with what's in the pipe from other manufacturers.
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      05-17-2018, 11:56 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by rolltidef32 View Post
Famous quote: "The first revolution is when you change your mind, about how you look at things, and realize there is another way to look at it that you have not been shown".

Dude, the "public" are seen daily driving around in Camrys, Corrollas, Rav 4s, and F-150s, so what do they know?

I like tradition also. Many who've read my many posts in the 3 series area on BMW tradition and history know this.

However, you must note the transition going on here. The Internal Combustion Engine is on it's deathbed. So is traditional ICE design like jmg said earlier. The "i" line is a move into the future of the automobile. Sure, some of the designs are hard to accept at first, but when you understand what's going on, it becomes easier to accept.

Ignorance in all forms always manifests itself in fear, dissension, and hate. If you don't understand EVs, you may tend to not like any part of the subject.

I hated hybrids like the Prius to no end; still do. Why, because there was nothing futuristic in a hybrid as they still drove on gas. The silly, flaccid looks pointed to softness.

Most EVs took on this same esthetic, think Nissan Leaf. However, most men want either something aggressive looking or purposeful. The i3 is totally purposeful in it's execution and this was attractive to me. I gave the car a chance, did my research, took time to survey the environment, then started to view things in a different light.

Worst thing you can ever do is be the last person to "get it". Think Apple, Facebook, or Bitcoin.
Some people bought Pontiac Aztecs also.
As a current i3 owner, I never even considered the Aztec!
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      05-17-2018, 11:58 PM   #30
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As a current i3 owner, I never even considered the Aztec!
That wasn't my point.
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      05-18-2018, 12:49 AM   #31
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I really like the I3 for what it is, it it just its own car and tries not to be anything else then what it is, that's why i really like it. It stands out even if you'r personal opinion dislikes it, it draws attention to it more then many sports car out there. Everyone knows what a sports car is even a child that is 10 years old knows what a sports car is. But the I3 gets the attention from everyone. Even those that don't like it pays attention to it. So good job BMW on that.

But i hope for BMW's sake that whatever this concept/drawing is, It is a so called "regular" car likes of the 3er or 4er witch people will buy in bigger quantities then the i3 & i8

We have already seen the concept of the SAV iX3 so don't know why they would tease another SAV/SUV but then again people are buying them in massive quantities so it just might be another one.

I am in the market now for a new car and i really don't want to switch over to Tesla model 3, i am hoping BMW will release a car soon that i can buy witch is fully electric with at least 450-550 km in one charge and is quite quick.

I have my eyes on the BMW M2 Competition but i just don't feel for another ICE car it just feels at least to me and this is my personal opinion and nothing else, the ICE car's just feels dated no matter how much you make the car look modern but the power plant is still the same concept pour in petrol/diesel burn and make it go wrom wrom. I jus't don't want to turn in to the gas station anymore to fuel up it just feels UN-modern compared to just plugging the car in to the wall and charging it.

I hope we will see Battery stations in the near future instead of gas stations, where you go in to hot swap your battery for a freshly charged one. Like drive in on a platform it lifts the car up and a robot swaps out the discharged one and adds a fully charged one. If you are on really long trips so to speak. Otherwise a EV with 450-550 km in one charge is more then enough for most people and their daily commutes.
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      05-18-2018, 01:24 AM   #32
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BMW have tapped into this by mirroring typical BMW dynamics and steering communication within the new UKL cars.
You mean massive body roll, a steering system that is not connected to the front wheels, and the engine note played through the speaker system?!?!?!?!
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      05-18-2018, 02:49 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertfox73 View Post
Probably just me, but I think it's time to retire the "i" branding...it's so overplayed on everything from cars to mobile device chargers. I'm surprised BMW is using that mechanism to brand its future...it seems stale, worn out, and derivative of Apple. Pretty sure a marketing undergrad class could come up with that name.
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      05-18-2018, 03:15 AM   #34
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Can't they just build a normal looking BMW.

With a electric engine.

Why have to go all futuristic for...
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      05-18-2018, 06:31 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by rolltidef32 View Post
Famous quote: "The first revolution is when you change your mind, about how you look at things, and realize there is another way to look at it that you have not been shown".

Dude, the "public" are seen daily driving around in Camrys, Corrollas, Rav 4s, and F-150s, so what do they know?

I like tradition also. Many who've read my many posts in the 3 series area on BMW tradition and history know this.

However, you must note the transition going on here. The Internal Combustion Engine is on it's deathbed. So is traditional ICE design like jmg said earlier. The "i" line is a move into the future of the automobile. Sure, some of the designs are hard to accept at first, but when you understand what's going on, it becomes easier to accept.

Ignorance in all forms always manifests itself in fear, dissension, and hate. If you don't understand EVs, you may tend to not like any part of the subject.

I hated hybrids like the Prius to no end; still do. Why, because there was nothing futuristic in a hybrid as they still drove on gas. The silly, flaccid looks pointed to softness.

Most EVs took on this same esthetic, think Nissan Leaf. However, most men want either something aggressive looking or purposeful. The i3 is totally purposeful in it's execution and this was attractive to me. I gave the car a chance, did my research, took time to survey the environment, then started to view things in a different light.

Worst thing you can ever do is be the last person to "get it". Think Apple, Facebook, or Bitcoin.
Some people bought Pontiac Aztecs also.
Come on. Of all people here, you know better. I take your comment as sarcastic speaking from a cosmetic perspective, as there is no way to compare the build quality and other aesthetics.
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      05-18-2018, 06:45 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by antzcrashing View Post
I3 is not ugly. Its not aggressive but its not ugly.

INext looks interesting but hope its not a wagon or suv. In 3 years bmw will find out based on tesla whether there is a market for electric affordable sporty cars (model 3). My guess is that the market is still very limited (despite teslas 500k fully refundable preorders cough), and bmw is thinking that too. This car will be able to fit either a niche mkt or it will be scalable to serious market capture.
In my book the i3 design would MASSIVELY benefit from being quite a lot wider and a tad lower roof line - Would actually make it a aggressive, modern hatch instead of a narrow Audi A2 wagon kind of design.
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      05-18-2018, 06:59 AM   #37
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And on a side note, have you noticed that the windows have the shape of the newer kidney grills? (Those that join in the middle)
Yes, now they're using the Kia grill design on the side windows.
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      05-18-2018, 08:23 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeKay View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by antzcrashing View Post
I3 is not ugly. Its not aggressive but its not ugly.

INext looks interesting but hope its not a wagon or suv. In 3 years bmw will find out based on tesla whether there is a market for electric affordable sporty cars (model 3). My guess is that the market is still very limited (despite teslas 500k fully refundable preorders cough), and bmw is thinking that too. This car will be able to fit either a niche mkt or it will be scalable to serious market capture.
In my book the i3 design would MASSIVELY benefit from being quite a lot wider and a tad lower roof line - Would actually make it a aggressive, modern hatch instead of a narrow Audi A2 wagon kind of design.
I see your point but why just not go all the way and jetisson this whole design and create an electric version of the 2,3,4 and 5 series.

I wonder how many extra feet of range the skinny tires and loss of basic luxury features gain.
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      05-18-2018, 08:33 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by desertfox73 View Post
Probably just me, but I think it's time to retire the "i" branding...it's so overplayed on everything from cars to mobile device chargers. I'm surprised BMW is using that mechanism to brand its future...it seems stale, worn out, and derivative of Apple. Pretty sure a marketing undergrad class could come up with that name.
Its not just you but didnt idrive come few years before iphone and they really were not copying anything?

Bmw is a bit lost in leading with design though. You need a visionary guy for this and thats rare. Take Bangle - he just showed up and said “all you assholes are old and dunno shit and im gonna make you a cool car line up, with idrive, flame surfacing, cars all gonna look distinct etc”. He moved bmw out of the 70-90s period. His only failure sorta was that most cars came out underhweeled or overbodied. An e90 needed 18s to look half decent but run flats killed the ride - but bmw stuck em on 16s in base spec. Talk about underwheeled! Then came these forum bros who shit on E90 tail lights or e60 headlights and E65 Trunk with their bleh emojis and stupid one liners (you wear a cap backwards and sunglasses - you dont know shit bro) and after a while they (bmw) mellow down everything, give in, copying Audi of early teens and making every car in the line up in matrioshka doll style. Now 3 looks like 5, 5 looks like 7 and x3 looks like x5 and so on. I mocked Audi for this and hello its happened to bmw! I dont fkng like that all cars look the same now and the reason is they lack a design character with charisma. Playing it safe. More like we are in the E39 E46 era again. All things look super smooth and mellow adjusted for modern tech. I had the Z4 Coupe - that thing looked solid. Drove well. Was reliable. Interior was sweet. What current z4 looks like!

Meanwhile Mercedes finding their design mojo, and Audi has gotten sharp and learned how to make cars that drive well. And BMW just got... more expensive. Everytime I see the 5 series or especially 7 series wih those stupid headlights I dont get what were they thinking. Look at it. Very punchable face on car if there was one.

The i’model line up has a great design language. I hope they phase out current old dinosaur designs and go for making cars that look like concept cars soon. Interior of every imodel looks 10x nicer. Faux gauge rings on top of led display - what! So may be it is dumb to use “i” monicker so much, i think it will be phased out and i3 will be 1 series and i8 - 8 series etc. fingers crossed.
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      05-18-2018, 08:34 AM   #40
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It's definitely a good car objectively, but sales show the public would rather not be seen in one.

Basically, every EV type car in existence has had this issue besides Tesla, for obvious reasons.
There are plenty of unattractive ICE vehicles that nevertheless sell briskly. So, the positive correlation between vehicles that run solely on electric power and exhibit subjectively poor aesthetics to you is registering a false positive on causation of "low" sell-through. The Toyota Prius is one counter-example. I'm sure others exist.

So, instead let's look at two other factors at play: a) value and b) convenience. If we take the Prius I mention above as an example, it has a starting price of about $24k and offers convenience that is equivalent to a pure-ICE powered vehicle. That is to say, since it has an ICE, it can be refueled at a gas station, and therefore there is no range anxiety. Remember that range anxiety has three components:

- concern about vehicle range on a single charge
- concern about being left with nowhere to recharge
- concern that charging takes too much time

What we can take away from this is, when an EV can be purchased for a reasonable amount, can go an adequate distance on a single charge, has access to ample charging stations, and can be charged in roughly the same amount of time an ICE vehicle can be fueled, the public will buy the EV irrespective of the fact that it may not be the most beautiful vehicle on the stage. Now obviously not every EV is going to be "cheap" - luxury EV's will still command luxury prices just like ICE vehicles do. But the range anxiety issues *must* be addressed.

So, while we can debate a vehicle's appearance ad infinitum (though I would politely point out that where the i3 in concerned, strictly speaking, that topic should probably be discussed in a different thread), at the end of the debate, not everyone is going to agree on what looks good, what looks bad, and indeed, how much the appearance matters to begin with. So in fact it is not "undeniable" that an EV looks "bad". No, what is undeniable is that billions of dollars are being poured into EV R&D to overcome the limitations I mention above. As those become addressed in ways that move closer and closer to the target customer's criteria for an MVP to replace their ICE, you will see EV proliferate quickly. It will happen because 150 billion dollars says that it will happen.

Getting back around to the i3, it will be replaced sometime next decade by an i1 riding on FAAR WE (electric UKL). Will it be less polarizing aesthetically than the i3? Perhaps, but it isn't going to look like an Aston Martin sports car or grand tourer either. It's going to look vaguely like the F40 1 Series with the i-brand cues similar to the recent iX3 concept. It might even have the weird connected kidneys that everyone seems to dislike. But if it costs roughly the same as the gasoline counterpart and offers roughly (or even just *sufficiently*) equivalent convenience, it will sell, and it will sell briskly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mundo74 View Post
... why just not go all the way and jetisson this whole design and create an electric version of the 2,3,4 and 5 series.
That's essentially what they are planning as we speak. Although they will not just be passenger car products like the ones you mention, but light trucks (their SAV lineup) as well.
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      05-18-2018, 09:25 AM   #41
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the i3, prius and leaf are ugly plain and simple. people like pretty stuff it's in our DNA. Americans only buy small ugly cars when they have a gun to their heads ie $5/gallon gas.
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      05-18-2018, 10:03 AM   #42
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EVs all look funny cause they need to be efficient. the reason you don't see a full electric 3 series is because the range is already bad enough on a very light and VERY aerodynamic vehicle, so the EV 3 series would never sell cause range would be terrible. and lets not act like people would be lining up to buy an EV 3 series when you cant get people to buy the hybrid version and that still has a gas tank for them to feel safe with traveling.
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      05-18-2018, 10:09 AM   #43
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EVs all look funny cause they need to be efficient. the reason you don't see a full electric 3 series is because the range is already bad enough on a very light and VERY aerodynamic vehicle, so the EV 3 series would never sell cause range would be terrible. and lets not act like people would be lining up to buy an EV 3 series when you cant get people to buy the hybrid version and that still has a gas tank for them to feel safe with traveling.
Tesla doesn't look funny ;-)
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      05-18-2018, 10:23 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by ThugzZ BunnY View Post
EVs all look funny cause they need to be efficient. the reason you don't see a full electric 3 series is because the range is already bad enough on a very light and VERY aerodynamic vehicle, so the EV 3 series would never sell cause range would be terrible. and lets not act like people would be lining up to buy an EV 3 series when you cant get people to buy the hybrid version and that still has a gas tank for them to feel safe with traveling.
Tesla doesn't look funny ;-)
I was going to say the same thing. that argument is what the auto manufacturers have been preaching for decades. musk threw that fallacy out the window.
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