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      05-26-2020, 05:02 AM   #199
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...and I haven't heard TP mentioned in about a month!
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      05-26-2020, 10:30 AM   #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9M4N71U View Post
Exactly this. Are surgical masks 100% effective at say containing a sneeze? definitely not. but it makes a marginal difference. and that is better than nothing. (Sorry I don't have a degree is some material science or OSHA certified but common sense prevails).
There's no proof they are effective at containing something like COVID in the wider community outside of the medical setting. There have been plenty of medical studies done showing that surgical masks are marginally effective and/or the data is inconclusive when it comes to reducing the spread of a respiratory virus, whether from the person wearing mask or or vice versa in a hospital setting. It's largely why the WHO hasn't changed their stance on their mask recommendations (i.e., reserved for those in the medical setting or are sick). Given their minimal effectiveness in the worst setting (i.e., medical), it's largely why they aren't recommending them for use by the general public.

As for cloth masks, the data shows that they are ineffective because they seal even worse that a disposable paper surgical mask and the cloth threads void space is too large. A well known study actually showed that the use of cloth masks in a medical setting increased the risk of infection compared to surgical masks. This is largely why the WHO doesn't recommend cloth masks.

As someone that works in the OSHA/health and safety world, I think the CDC's recommendation of cloth masks for all is VERY dangerous and when it's all said and done, I believe they will have found out that recommending cloth masks to those not trained in using PPE will have actually created infections, not reduced them. Look at all the people out in public wearing these things. The majority of the masks are ill fitting, people are touching them constantly, and many have their nose exposed because they're so damn hot.

I believe the CDC's recommendation is founded in a legal basis and not medical science. Legal, you say? It's an easy fall back for government and business if someone gets infected and wasn't wearing a mask. They can simply say, "You should have worn a mask as recommended by the CDC" thus helping those entities in the event of a lawsuit.

Even more interesting is that the WHO only recommends 3 feet social distancing, NOT 6 feet.

I'm not a tin foil hat type of person and I'm especially not a right-wing conservative (I lean more towards Western European styles of gov). The CDC has been a joke throughout this thing. The WHO has it's own issues, but when it comes to masks and distancing, their recommendations are founded in science from a panel of international medical professionals and not a tiny subset like the CDC that is currently driven by fear, confusion, and throwing a dart at the wall.

If you wear a mask, I strongly suggest it be a surgical one.
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      05-26-2020, 11:18 AM   #201
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      05-26-2020, 11:25 AM   #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
There's no proof they are effective at containing something like COVID in the wider community outside of the medical setting. There have been plenty of medical studies done showing that surgical masks are marginally effective and/or the data is inconclusive when it comes to reducing the spread of a respiratory virus, whether from the person wearing mask or or vice versa in a hospital setting. It's largely why the WHO hasn't changed their stance on their mask recommendations (i.e., reserved for those in the medical setting or are sick). Given their minimal effectiveness in the worst setting (i.e., medical), it's largely why they aren't recommending them for use by the general public.

As for cloth masks, the data shows that they are ineffective because they seal even worse that a disposable paper surgical mask and the cloth threads void space is too large. A well known study actually showed that the use of cloth masks in a medical setting increased the risk of infection compared to surgical masks. This is largely why the WHO doesn't recommend cloth masks.

As someone that works in the OSHA/health and safety world, I think the CDC's recommendation of cloth masks for all is VERY dangerous and when it's all said and done, I believe they will have found out that recommending cloth masks to those not trained in using PPE will have actually created infections, not reduced them. Look at all the people out in public wearing these things. The majority of the masks are ill fitting, people are touching them constantly, and many have their nose exposed because they're so damn hot.

I believe the CDC's recommendation is founded in a legal basis and not medical science. Legal, you say? It's an easy fall back for government and business if someone gets infected and wasn't wearing a mask. They can simply say, "You should have worn a mask as recommended by the CDC" thus helping those entities in the event of a lawsuit.

Even more interesting is that the WHO only recommends 3 feet social distancing, NOT 6 feet.

I'm not a tin foil hat type of person and I'm especially not a right-wing conservative (I lean more towards Western European styles of gov). The CDC has been a joke throughout this thing. The WHO has it's own issues, but when it comes to masks and distancing, their recommendations are founded in science from a panel of international medical professionals and not a tiny subset like the CDC that is currently driven by fear, confusion, and throwing a dart at the wall.

If you wear a mask, I strongly suggest it be a surgical one.
Besides the people who are wearing them incorrectly/touching the masks/etc. can you elaborate why a mask in a public setting is worse than not wearing a mask? No the data says ____, but whats the theory before it?

Isn't containing a sneeze, as simple as containing a sneeze?
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      05-26-2020, 12:03 PM   #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9M4N71U View Post
Besides the people who are wearing them incorrectly/touching the masks/etc. can you elaborate why a mask in a public setting is worse than not wearing a mask? No the data says ____, but whats the theory before it?

Isn't containing a sneeze, as simple as containing a sneeze?
One could argue that coughing and sneezing into one's arm is as effective, if not more effective than coughing/sneezing through a surgical or cloth mask. The reason being one is likely to push their nose and mouth deep into their arm to capture respiratory droplets. The mask simply will blow off ones face a bit by the rush of air. Either method, mask or arm, will potentially put the virus into the air.
Coughing and sneezing into the air with no guard is dumb, COVID or not. Hopefully in the future people will be more aware of hygiene, staying home when sick, etc.

Seeing that 40-60% of the COVID deaths in the US and other developed countries are in nursing homes, the whole approach to containing this virus and it's risks to the public as a whole has been a bit misguided. We should have been protecting the elderly (65+) and sick from the get-go as they represent the vast majority of deaths (80+%). Take them out of the equation and COVID is not REMOTELY as dangerous or deadly to society. There is a calculated risk to everything we do in life. But that discussion for another thread I suppose.
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      05-26-2020, 12:07 PM   #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
One could argue that coughing and sneezing into one's arm is as effective, if not more effective than coughing/sneezing through a surgical or cloth mask. The reason being one is likely to push their nose and mouth deep into their arm to capture respiratory droplets. The mask simply will blow off ones face a bit by the rush of air. Either method, mask or arm, will potentially put the virus into the air.
Coughing and sneezing into the air with no guard is dumb, COVID or not. Hopefully in the future people will be more aware of hygiene, staying home when sick, etc.
This is the 'good news' thread and there are a few others we could debate the efficiency of a mask, but your statements above doesn't necessary support that wearing a mask is worst than not wearing a mask, at all.
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      05-26-2020, 12:15 PM   #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post

Seeing that 40-60% of the COVID deaths in the US and other developed countries are in nursing homes, the whole approach to containing this virus and it's risks to the public as a whole has been a bit misguided. We should have been protecting the elderly (65+) and sick from the get-go as they represent the vast majority of deaths (80+%). Take them out of the equation and COVID is not REMOTELY as dangerous or deadly to society. There is a calculated risk to everything we do in life. But that discussion for another thread I suppose.
Isn't that what Sweden did? It didn't work.
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      05-26-2020, 12:17 PM   #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9M4N71U View Post
This is the 'good news' thread and there are a few others we could debate the efficiency of a mask, but your statements above doesn't necessary support that wearing a mask is worst than not wearing a mask, at all.
While I choose to wear a mask myself, I suspect his point is that people who do not know how to put the mask on and take it off can contaminate themselves as well as others. For example, not washing hands first and then touching your mask incorrectly and / or your face. They can also give people a false sense of security and therefore lead to people acting more carelessly. I suspect wearing a mask all the time isnít great for breathing either.

Despite this, I believe if you follow guidelines and common sense you can still derive marginal benefit for you and others by using the mask. But I also think it is more important to be smart with socializing, stay away from others if sick at all, donít touch your face and wash your hands frequently.
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      05-26-2020, 12:20 PM   #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickFLM4 View Post
While I choose to wear a mask myself, I suspect his point is that people who do not know how to put the mask on and take it off can contaminate themselves as well as others. For example, not washing hands first and then touching your mask incorrectly and / or your face. They can also give people a false sense of security and therefore lead to people acting more carelessly. I suspect wearing a mask all the time isnít great for breathing either.

Despite this, I believe if you follow guidelines and common sense you can still derive marginal benefit for you and others by using the mask. But I also think it is more important to be smart with socializing, stay away from others if sick at all, donít touch your face and wash your hands frequently.
Agreed, so its not a fundamental issue of masks itself, but rather user error, which can be corrected to an extent, through re-education. Just like how we had to teach the country how to properly wash your hands .
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      05-26-2020, 12:48 PM   #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saeyedoc View Post
Isn't that what Sweden did? It didn't work.
I would beg to differ. Sweden didn't impose a lock-down or take the extreme measures as we did in the States. They simply recommended social distancing, work at home if you can, went to distance learning for HS and college, and limited gathering sizes. They don't wear masks.

About 15% of their 10M population has had the virus now and the country tests a lot. They've had a bit over 4,100 deaths, a majority of which were elderly/sick (just like everywhere else). That puts their mortality rate in the range of 0.2-0.3 percent. That's equal to the current US mortality rate that was noted by the CDC last week.

Draw your conclusions.
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      05-26-2020, 12:49 PM   #209
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Quote:
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...and I haven't heard TP mentioned in about a month!
I found toilet paper and paper towels in the supermarket for the first time on Thursday. Still no clorox.
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      05-26-2020, 12:50 PM   #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9M4N71U View Post
Agreed, so its not a fundamental issue of masks itself, but rather user error, which can be corrected to an extent, through re-education. Just like how we had to teach the country how to properly wash your hands .
You assume too much from the general population. A majority go through life with blinders on, are oblivious, don't care, don't know any better, and/or blindly do what they are told.
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      05-26-2020, 12:54 PM   #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
You assume too much from the general population. A majority go through life with blinders on, are oblivious, don't care, don't know any better, and/or blindly do what they are told.
yeah i'm not going any further down this rabbit hole...
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      05-26-2020, 01:48 PM   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
I would beg to differ. Sweden didn't impose a lock-down or take the extreme measures as we did in the States. They simply recommended social distancing, work at home if you can, went to distance learning for HS and college, and limited gathering sizes. They don't wear masks.

About 15% of their 10M population has had the virus now and the country tests a lot. They've had a bit over 4,100 deaths, a majority of which were elderly/sick (just like everywhere else). That puts their mortality rate in the range of 0.2-0.3 percent. That's equal to the current US mortality rate that was noted by the CDC last week.

Draw your conclusions.
The article I read said their mortality rate was at close to 40/100k, vs 30/100k for US, even with a younger, healthier population to begin with and even more telling, their neighbors Norway and Finland who did lockdown were 10x less than they are.
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      05-26-2020, 05:30 PM   #213
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People. This is "The encouraging news despite COVID-19 thread". Take your debbie-downer-masks-don't-work bulls==t elsewhere, mmmkay?
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      05-26-2020, 05:43 PM   #214
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I got a haircut Saturday!
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      05-26-2020, 06:31 PM   #215
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I got a haircut Saturday!
I got my hair highlighted today and my husband got his hair cut. Like 2 new people🤩
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      05-26-2020, 06:32 PM   #216
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I got my hair highlighted today and my husband got his hair cut. Like 2 new people🤩
My wife is going for hers on Saturday. I offered to do it myself but she wasnít interested.
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      05-26-2020, 08:37 PM   #217
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Haircut. So much want ...
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      05-27-2020, 08:09 AM   #218
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Haircut. So much want ...
Despite what the news says about Georgia, its really hard to get in anywhere to get a cut. All the hair cut places are opening late and closing early and you have to wait your turn out in your car. I had my wife cut mine last week. It came out okay but I am going to need a real cut soon.
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      05-27-2020, 08:19 AM   #219
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The beach will be open for my annual girls week. I need my toes in the sand and a drink in my hand.
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      05-27-2020, 08:19 AM   #220
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Despite what the news says about Georgia, its really hard to get in anywhere to get a cut. All the hair cut places are opening late and closing early and you have to wait your turn out in your car. I had my wife cut mine last week. It came out okay but I am going to need a real cut soon.
Canít make an appointment?
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