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      Yesterday, 03:10 PM   #8933
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The seasonal flu is a lightweight.

In 2017 45 million people are estimated to have contracted the seasonal flu virus. 61K deaths as you note. (All of this happening in the presence of a moderately effective vaccine.) In comparison as of today our friend SARS-CoV-2 has wormed itself into 1.9M people, and killed 105K. Even applying a factor of 10 to the number of cases, make it 19 million to account for asymptomatic folks and those not able to get tested, COVID-19 will kill 250K people by the time 45 million of us have it. Over 4 times as many deaths. Assuming, once again, that the serious cases don't swamp the hospitals.

That said, give me a vaccine and I'll stop caring about masks.
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      Yesterday, 03:30 PM   #8934
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Then let's apply "service" to everything.
We all make our choice to serve or not, and I do apply service to country to everything:

* If someone is struggling to get something off a high shelf, I offer to help
* If someone is struggling lifting something heavy, I offer to help
* I return shopping carts
* I help Americans get the care they need for the diseases they have
* If a fire starts near me I help put it out
* If someone is hurt, I help them get treatment
* I hold doors for people, I help old ladies cross the street
* I say please & thank you and sir & ma'am
* I wear a mask to protect those at-risk from covid19

These are core American behavior standards; you learn them in the boy/girl scouts or the military.

You're either a helpful, useful citizen or you're not.
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I thought the next M4 was going to be a flying car powered by bloomin' onions and a teaspoon of mayonnaise. At least that's what I read on the internet @ BimmerPoop.org.
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      Yesterday, 03:49 PM   #8935
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^Yes!!
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      Yesterday, 03:58 PM   #8936
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Originally Posted by floridaorange View Post
^Yes!!
When our troops put themselves in harms way on foreign soil, it's for all Americans, not just those under 65 and without pre-existing conditions.

And they don't whine about having to carry or wear a mask.
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I thought the next M4 was going to be a flying car powered by bloomin' onions and a teaspoon of mayonnaise. At least that's what I read on the internet @ BimmerPoop.org.
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      Yesterday, 10:25 PM   #8937
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Pretty much a roundabout way to create a police state to enforce mask use. [...]
And now that we've opened this can of worms and let the cat out of the bag, Governors can now mandate such mask wearing orders anytime they want for practically any reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Is the regular flu season a compelling reason? The US 2017 flu season has an estimate of 61,000 deaths. So without getting into the seasonal flu vs. COVIC-19 debate, we've never required mask wearing, where businesses can refuse service to individuals not wearing a mask indoors in a public space and be held LEGALLY ACCOUNTABLE FOR NOT REFUSING SERVICE to such customers because of the flu. So next flu season, where is the line drawn on number of acceptable deaths, where it won't trigger an "Order 63" event? Yeah, I get it, COVID-19 protections will obfuscate the flu, but we are in a new era now with Gov. KKK at the helm here in Virginia.
Actually, back in the day, being refused service would have been the least of your concerns.

No, regardless of the (constitutional) right or freedom you deemed applicable to justify your refusal to wear a mask back then, you were simply:
  1. publicly despised as "a dangerous slacker", lacking "responsibility and patriotism" and failing "not only to protect yourself but (also) your children and your neighbor"
  2. fined
  3. jailed
  4. shot
  5. eventually all of the above
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post




Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Also during the Spanish Flu pandemic of 1918-1919, there was an "Anti-Mask League":

Forbes - Apr 29, 2020 - "Protesting During A Pandemic Isn’t New: Meet The Anti-Mask League Of 1918" | source: here
"But by late 1918, masks had become a national symbol of responsibility and patriotism. Slowing the spread of influenza became part of the war effort in the final months of World War I.
[...]
“The man or woman or child who will not wear a mask is now a dangerous slacker,” declared the Red Cross in a public service announcement. In cities like San Francisco, people found not wearing masks were charged with “disturbing the peace.” Most paid $5 fines (which went straight to the Red Cross); some went to jail until it became apparent that crowding people into jails during a pandemic was, at best, not a great idea.
[...]
Just like today, the drastic measures San Francisco and the rest of the country took in 1918 seemed to work. “Flatten the curve” wasn’t a term people used in 1918, but that’s what seemed to be happening. By mid-November, fewer people were getting sick, and San Francisco began to re-open, just as parts of the world are doing today. People packed into theaters, eager to get back to business (and pleasure) as usual – and within two weeks, the deadly flu had made a dramatic comeback. And – in San Francisco and all over the world – the second wave was worse than the first.
By mid-January 1919, city officials once again ordered people to wear their masks in public. And in the midst of the devastating outbreak, a group of between 2,000 and 4,000 people decided to hold a large public gathering in order to protest being told to wear masks. The Anti-Mask League [...]"
No mask ? Then no trolley service for you.
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      Today, 08:00 AM   #8938
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Actually, back in the day, being refused service would have been the least of your concerns.

No, regardless of the (constitutional) right or freedom you deemed applicable to justify your refusal to wear a mask back then, you were simply:
  1. publicly despised as "a dangerous slacker", lacking "responsibility and patriotism" and failing "not only to protect yourself but (also) your children and your neighbor"
  2. fined
  3. jailed
  4. shot
  5. eventually all of the above

No mask ? Then no trolley service for you.
Attachment 2325794
LOL, okay 2 pictures of I guess is the time of the Spanish flu, somewhere in the world.

I'll counter with the movie "It's a Wonderful Life". In the movie, the pharmacist, Mr. Gower, looses his son to "the influenza", as notified on May 3rd, 1919, which is a significant part of the story. However, nowhere in the movie does anyone don a mask ever in any part of the movie. Nowhere in the background of any of the movie scenes can one find a sign, placard, or billboard, about wearing a mask or you'll be jailed, shot, or fined. In fact, there are numerous scenes where people are seen in very close proximity of one another, such as the high school dance, no kids or adults wearing masks.

One would think that since the movie relies on historically accurate depictions of American life (all important to the story line) that if mask wearing during the 1918 - 1919 influenza epidemic was so highly enforced as you infer, it would have be depicted in the movie.
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      Today, 08:22 AM   #8939
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
We all make our choice to serve or not, and I do apply service to country to everything:

* If someone is struggling to get something off a high shelf, I offer to help
* If someone is struggling lifting something heavy, I offer to help
* I return shopping carts
* I help Americans get the care they need for the diseases they have
* If a fire starts near me I help put it out
* If someone is hurt, I help them get treatment
* I hold doors for people, I help old ladies cross the street
* I say please & thank you and sir & ma'am
* I wear a mask to protect those at-risk from covid19

These are core American behavior standards; you learn them in the boy/girl scouts or the military.

You're either a helpful, useful citizen or you're not.
Like I've stated here before, I organize the shopping carts in the bin, so I'm more courteous than you. Just did it yesterday. Shit, I guess I should have wiped down the handles with an alcohol solution. Dammit!

Watching the news this morning, American core values have seemed to morph to slash and burn rioting, looting, burning police stations and cars, and burning out private citizens businesses.
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Last edited by Efthreeoh; Today at 08:28 AM..
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      Today, 09:02 AM   #8940
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
LOL, okay 2 pictures of I guess is the time of the Spanish flu, somewhere in the world.

I'll counter with the movie "It's a Wonderful Life". In the movie, the pharmacist, Mr. Gower, looses his son to "the influenza", as notified on May 3rd, 1919, which is a significant part of the story. However, nowhere in the movie does anyone don a mask ever in any part of the movie. Nowhere in the background of any of the movie scenes can one find a sign, placard, or billboard, about wearing a mask or you'll be jailed, shot, or fined. In fact, there are numerous scenes where people are seen in very close proximity of one another, such as the high school dance, no kids or adults wearing masks.

One would think that since the movie relies on historically accurate depictions of American life (all important to the story line) that if mask wearing during the 1918 - 1919 influenza epidemic was so highly enforced as you infer, it would have be depicted in the movie.
If you are using a film from 1946 as your proof of not wearing a mask today, you are a moron.
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      Today, 09:14 AM   #8941
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SumBMWGuy View Post
If you are using a film from 1946 as your proof of not wearing a mask today, you are a moron.
Yes. The original writing of the move started in 1936, just 18 years past the 1918 Spanish flu pandemic, so well within the memory of the writer.

And my response is no more moronic than his, since he is taking pictures and news clips out of context. A San Francisco police officer shoots someone for refusing to wear a mask. LOL. An American Red Cross flyer saying "you must wear a mask to protect yourself" - now we know none of the non-n95 masks protect oneself from getting infected; the mantra now is it's our civic duty to protect others. And two pictures that mean nothing. One guy has a mask on boarding a trolley somewhere in the world, and one guy doesn't, and the conductor waving (perhaps "hello, welcome aboard.") and the one guy's mask is not even fitting anywhere close to his face and able to contain contagions. But we are to assume the conductor is not letting the un-masked man on the trolley? LOL

None of what Artemis (not an American BTW) posted is anywhere related to my point, which is the Governor of Virginia mandating mask use by putting the legal onus on the backs of Virginia's businesses. Keep in mind Governor Northam is pictured in his college yearbook wearing a KKK uniform along with a co-frat boy friend in blackface. And the same Governor heard on WTOP radio in Washington DC making a case for post-term abortions. All of thus indicates this is a man that has no respect for human rights let alone citizen's rights.
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      Today, 09:23 AM   #8942
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Yes. The original writing of the move started in 1936, just 18 years past the 1918 Spanish flu pandemic, so well within the memory of the writer.
Just because the writer of the film writer started in 1936 doesn't mean it's a factual account of the time. To this end will you also accept Quentin Tarantino's version of events in his film about the Manson Murders? Will you use Bambi as your proof for hunting laws? Maybe cite "La La Land" as a reason for radios to be removed from cars, as they tend to cause horrific traffic on overpasses, ya know with the propensity of people to dance and sing on the freeway.
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      Today, 11:42 AM   #8943
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dog Face Pony Soldier View Post
I doubt some "medical board" holds more authority than the chief executive of the state. Care to share where you heard that nonsense?

.
http://www.tmb.state.tx.us/dl/6765AA...B-C27AA5AC19AA
They require masks, subject to penalties under board rules. This after our Governor said people don't have to wear them. http://www.tmb.state.tx.us/dl/6765AA...B-C27AA5AC19AA
These are all the COVID related rules.
Prior to the one I posted above, we were required by law to report people violating the non essential surgery mandate, under penalty of possible loss of license!
Tort reform in Texas gave the board a lot of power.
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      Today, 01:22 PM   #8944
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SumBMWGuy View Post
Just because the writer of the film writer started in 1936 doesn't mean it's a factual account of the time. To this end will you also accept Quentin Tarantino's version of events in his film about the Manson Murders? Will you use Bambi as your proof for hunting laws? Maybe cite "La La Land" as a reason for radios to be removed from cars, as they tend to cause horrific traffic on overpasses, ya know with the propensity of people to dance and sing on the freeway.
I'll accept the film's account about the adoption of mask wearing in 1918 - 1919 as much I do from Artemis's two pictures and a few anecdotes from supposed news paper clippings. (Which was my point knucklehead).

According to the CDC, 675,000 American citizens died during the Spanish flu pandemic, in a country that was vastly rural at the time and had 1/3 less to population it does today and with a far less transportation system capability than today. So all this 1918 flu pandemic mask wearing crap everyone is trying to use to virtuous-shame wearing them in 2020, is just that, crap. If everyone was wearing masks back in 1918 like Artemis thinks they were (cops were shooting people for God's sake!!!!), then the masks weren't very effective now were they.

Stop letting yourself get mind-fucked, it leads to mental disease that no mask can protect you from. There are literally no people alive in 1918 who are here today that can verify and validate the level of mask wearing that occurred 100 years ago. Both of my grandmothers were in their 30's during that time, and neither ever told stories of any one wearing masks to fight the 1918 flu pandemic. Neither my mother, who would be 92 this year, or my father who would be 93 this year ever mentioned mass acceptance of mask wearing to fight the 1918 pandemic as told to them by their parents. Both my parents were in their early 40's when the Hong Kong flu pandemic hit the US in 1967-1969 and their mothers were still alive in their early 70's, so I'm sure if mask wearing was so prevalent in 1918 as the physical antidote to the Spanish flu, I'm 100% positive my grandmothers would have insisted that my parents make them outfit all five of my brothers and sisters and me with masks to prevent infection during the 1967 - 1969 Hong Kong flu epidemic. I have zero childhood memories of wearing a mask during that time (except at Halloween). We have no family pictures from that era of such mask-wearing events (and we had a Kodak 8MM movie camera and rolls upon rolls of family movies).

However, I remember vividly the Apollo 11 landing on the moon in July 1969.
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      Today, 01:24 PM   #8945
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saeyedoc View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dog Face Pony Soldier View Post
I doubt some "medical board" holds more authority than the chief executive of the state. Care to share where you heard that nonsense?

.
http://www.tmb.state.tx.us/dl/6765AA...B-C27AA5AC19AA
They require masks, subject to penalties under board rules. This after our Governor said people don't have to wear them. http://www.tmb.state.tx.us/dl/6765AA...B-C27AA5AC19AA
These are all the COVID related rules.
Prior to the one I posted above, we were required by law to report people violating the non essential surgery mandate, under penalty of possible loss of license!
Tort reform in Texas gave the board a lot of power.
Are we really supposed to believe that there's a state "medical board" that holds more power than the state's Executive, Legislative, and Judicial branches of government? Think about how silly that would be. At best you can say the board has greater political power, but definitely not power under the law. Authority granted by law is what I'm referring to.
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      Today, 09:31 PM   #8946
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Watching the news this morning, American core values have seemed to morph to slash and burn rioting, looting, burning police stations and cars, and burning out private citizens businesses.
Obviously you've confused American values with criminal behavior - For Trumpkins, I can't blame them given their role model does that every day.
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I thought the next M4 was going to be a flying car powered by bloomin' onions and a teaspoon of mayonnaise. At least that's what I read on the internet @ BimmerPoop.org.

Last edited by GrussGott; Today at 10:26 PM..
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      Today, 09:41 PM   #8947
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I am sorry our resident virologist's thread is quiet due to the destruction of our major cities. Hopefully it will pick back up soon as I would like the riots to stop.

Check in from Destin FL. Hardly any masks or social distancing so we will likely all be dead soon. I am however having an awesome time and if this the last vacation I will ever have then it was a good one.

We brought our masks with intention of wearing them but what's the point when no one else has one on?

Good luck humans!
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