Question for those with property in the boonies

[jmg]

Originally Posted by chassis

@dreamingat30fps Do you have an expectation or target for financial return on this property? A rural or non-improved site will have very little, if any, appreciation. A subdivision with HOA, in a rural (less-developed) area within one hour of a medium-sized city, would have a better chance at appreciation.

I've been sitting on acres of land just 20 minutes from a town of 150k. At one point it was growing, but that plateaued and the area is stagnated. 30 years and no sewage, and it's still just a dirt road to my lot. I can count the number of homes built around my land with my hands. Land appreciation is still more than inflation, so there is no reason to sell it, not that there are any buyers. Maybe in 100 years it will be worth more than the dirt that sits on it lol.

[CTinline-six]

Originally Posted by vreihen16

Seriously though, I am the "richest" person in a rural-ish neighborhood surrounded by woods. The guy up the street has a half dozen bathtubs on his lawn, and a guy down the street has 20+ cars junked in his yard. Several houses are owned by long-time residents who are all related. It took about 7-8 years to get accepted into the neighborhood, but the benefits are free snow plowing, help loading/unloading big items, and a surprise plate of ribs fresh out of the smoker every few months. Let the neighbors grab any trees that fall in our yard for firewood, and everyone is happy. Oh, and don't forget to wave to any and all neighbors if they're outside as you drive past. Very important part of being neighborly and accepted into a rural community.....

This is probably the most accurate post so far I think.

I live in a neighborhood now, but grew up living on a dirt road in the woods with a farm on either side. You will definitely have the few "odd ducks" that like collecting junk cars, shooting rifles at strange hours of the night, and riding their horses to the gas station, but for the most part they are good people with a better sense of community. If you give off the city slicker vibe, they might take longer to accept you, but the good news is that *most* rural people look out for each other, so if you show them respect you will get it in return. I helped a few neighbors bale hay once, and those same people would offer me grass fed beef, plow my driveway for fun, or just stop by to lend a generator during a power outage no questions asked.

[UncleWede]

Wave at every vehicle you pass, or that passes your window.

My dad has a cabin up in the woods. By now I've drank with most of them at the local restaurant/bar. When we ride ATVs, we always wave at everyone. Don't worry about my cell phone, I take it out once a day or so to check the text-only weather forecast, as that's the best I can receive.

For the weekend trip, I bring one pair of pants, no matter how dirty I get chopping wood. Sometimes I bring two shirts. Once I walk up the stairs and open the front door, I put up the flag and THEN go light the fire/heaters.

Now, all of this is in Cali, so YMMV

[fubarian]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

However most properties I'm looking at have none of that and are out in the mountains. I imagine most of them are on septic and wells, but I honestly have no idea what to look for or what questions to even ask about those systems so I don't end up with a headache. Is that something a home inspection on these areas would include?

Hi, I live just off the mountain(s) - and have septic, a well, LP (liquid propane). I also have one of those pimptastic outbuildings that's perfectly stupid sized (no, not like that, it's 30x30, it's dumb, ask me why if you have 20 minutes)

Anyway, I've been at this house for over 2 years now and learned a TON about houses like this. Here we go.

About the house :

The propane tanks are owned by the propane companies, so that you don't have to worry about the tank. What do you have to worry about is your boiler and its BTU. This'll give you an idea how much you'll spend in LP. LPs not "cheap" but no where as cheap as natural gas. Our bill for all winter runs somewhere around 1500. It's not a big house but a big open area so that's a bit more than most I'd suspect. We supplement with wood burning stove downstairs and fireplace upstairs. More on that in a minute.

Septic inspections are something you should make the homeowner pay for - they'll give you a video of the pipe going to it, etc etc. This is my second house with one and never had a problem. Don't be a bonehead and put things like bacon grease or have a garbage disposal - you'll have to pay for a ton of stuff if you do, it clogs up f'in everything.

Wells are also something you should have the homeowner pay for. They're pretty much bulletproof. The recommendation I got from the well service around here is "keep the brine and call us if there's a pressure drop". Otherwise, it REALLY SUCKS when the power goes out - the well has its own pressure, but it won't necessarily keep up for the whole day. I plan on getting a generator hookup for it.

Power, to my amazement, has barely been a problem. We lost power during the wildfire for about a day, but that's been it.

Internet sucks but is amazingly relaible. We have "mountain" internet, which is based on a long range radio - max speed is 50mb, we get 35. Physics. I believe at this point it's went out for a total of an hour since we moved in 2 years ago.

Heating the house, it came with water baseboard heat. Not steam. So there's 4" panels that run here and there and when the heat comes on, hot(ish) water is pumped through it and it radiates out. This system totally sucks and I hate it with a passion. I miss HVAC. This system eats propane like you would not believe. So much so that we ran out one time, when it was ~5 degrees out and became a huge @#$% show. We spend about 350 in lumber (~2 cords?) and I'd suspect we'll go through more this year since we're home. I love real fires, so much we replaced a fake fireplace with a real one. One of the things can heat the entire house (srsly) and right now its snowing, the fire's going and I absolutely love it. I'll start another fire upstairs this evening. Because I can.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by fubarian

Hi, I live just off the mountain(s) - and have septic, a well, LP (liquid propane). I also have one of those pimptastic outbuildings that's perfectly stupid sized (no, not like that, it's 30x30, it's dumb, ask me why if you have 20 minutes)

Anyway, I've been at this house for over 2 years now and learned a TON about houses like this. Here we go.

About the house :

The propane tanks are owned by the propane companies, so that you don't have to worry about the tank. What do you have to worry about is your boiler and its BTU. This'll give you an idea how much you'll spend in LP. LPs not "cheap" but no where as cheap as natural gas. Our bill for all winter runs somewhere around 1500. It's not a big house but a big open area so that's a bit more than most I'd suspect. We supplement with wood burning stove downstairs and fireplace upstairs. More on that in a minute.

Septic inspections are something you should make the homeowner pay for - they'll give you a video of the pipe going to it, etc etc. This is my second house with one and never had a problem. Don't be a bonehead and put things like bacon grease or have a garbage disposal - you'll have to pay for a ton of stuff if you do, it clogs up f'in everything.

Wells are also something you should have the homeowner pay for. They're pretty much bulletproof. The recommendation I got from the well service around here is "keep the brine and call us if there's a pressure drop". Otherwise, it REALLY SUCKS when the power goes out - the well has its own pressure, but it won't necessarily keep up for the whole day. I plan on getting a generator hookup for it.

Power, to my amazement, has barely been a problem. We lost power during the wildfire for about a day, but that's been it.

Internet sucks but is amazingly relaible. We have "mountain" internet, which is based on a long range radio - max speed is 50mb, we get 35. Physics. I believe at this point it's went out for a total of an hour since we moved in 2 years ago.

Heating the house, it came with water baseboard heat. Not steam. So there's 4" panels that run here and there and when the heat comes on, hot(ish) water is pumped through it and it radiates out. This system totally sucks and I hate it with a passion. I miss HVAC. This system eats propane like you would not believe. So much so that we ran out one time, when it was ~5 degrees out and became a huge @#$% show. We spend about 350 in lumber (~2 cords?) and I'd suspect we'll go through more this year since we're home. I love real fires, so much we replaced a fake fireplace with a real one. One of the things can heat the entire house (srsly) and right now its snowing, the fire's going and I absolutely love it. I'll start another fire upstairs this evening. Because I can.

Thanks very useful info! I'm not sure we plan to be in it during the winters all though you never know, I'm sure we may do it once just to see what it's like. If you don't plan to be in the home during winter do you have to take any special precautions? Also I don't think it drops to negative temperatures in western north carolina, at least it's not typical, anything can happen especially if I move there.

Actually saw an awesome property today inside a community but with no restrictions on RVs or rental. Actually had a massive garage/workshop where I could fit the whole RV no problem plus several acres. Could not see my neighbors from the property, but driving around the community everything was very nice.

[kscarrol]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

If you don't plan to be in the home during winter do you have to take any special precautions? Also I don't think it drops to negative temperatures in western north carolina, at least it's not typical, anything can happen especially if I move there.

Being the country you are always facing invasion from mice, raccoons, bears etc so you certainly need to TRY and rodent proof the house but they will get in so when leaving for extended periods (winters) you should get rid of most foods. Canned goods and the like are fine anything in cardboard boxes, rice, grains should go. Things in freezers are fine.

Temps in western NC frequently do go below freezing, even single digits but rarely negative. Most reasonably modern homes are built to handle the winter temperatures. You shouldn't need to worry about freezing pipes but like most winter homes if your gone probably best to drain water lines etc.

I've never lived there full time, mostly a summer visitor/resident but we will move there in 2022.... can't wait!

[vreihen16]

Originally Posted by kscarrol

Being the country you are always facing invasion from mice, raccoons, bears etc so you certainly need to TRY and rodent proof the house but they will get in so when leaving for extended periods (winters) you should get rid of most foods. Canned goods and the like are fine anything in cardboard boxes, rice, grains should go. Things in freezers are fine.

How about leaving him a few surprises for insulting the Appalachian lifestyle and architecture?

I'm still chuckling about how he thinks that an outdoor hot tub could be useable in a rural area. In these parts, I can't even refill a car's washer fluid in my own driveway without being eaten alive by bugs from April through November. Our deck is only useable during the winter, and might as well be an insect buffet during the warmer months.

As a reminder to city folk, humans are *not* at the top of the food chain.....

[4Hockey4]

We have lived and built in country. Make sure all land has perc test, and ask any neighbors (if any) about well/water tables. (if real rural a test can be done locally)

Also make sure electric can run to property. Not sure on NC, but in VA you need permission from neighbor to run lines, if not already in. (tap into to)

also I'd add, when searching don't just look for land...check out places with cabins or "shacks". Sometimes you can pick that up as cheap as raw land and all the basics, well/septic/electric is in

[Smgs1992]

Dont forget to invest in a chainsaw and other equipment for land clearing. As trees will fall and the last thing you want is to have a tree fall on the driveway and you be stuck in or out of your property without access.

[pennsiveguy]

Originally Posted by vreihen16

How about leaving him a few surprises for insulting the Appalachian lifestyle and architecture?

I'm still chuckling about how he thinks that an outdoor hot tub could be useable in a rural area. In these parts, I can't even refill a car's washer fluid in my own driveway without being eaten alive by bugs from April through November. Our deck is only useable during the winter, and might as well be an insect buffet during the warmer months.

As a reminder to city folk, humans are *not* at the top of the food chain.....

We have an outdoor hot tub, but it's only ever used between the first hard frost (about a month ago) and the first "skeeter" hatch of the Spring. It's about a 6-month season. I'm cool with that...if you'll pardon the pun. There's no better way to end a busy winter day of firewood wrangling and/or wrenching, when your back is a mass of knots, than sitting up against the massage jets under the moonlight. Or soaking in complete silence with all the lights and jets off, on a moonlit night when the temps are below zero and the sky is a mass of stars. Country living at its finest.

[gurns]

Having stumbled across this thread was too coincidental as i am in the same situation as the OP. I, too, live in FLA and have been looking for quite sometime to move to upstate SC. I’ve chosen this area specifically because it satisfies my activities like cycling and hiking plus SC is a retirement friendly place to live (more so than NC). BTW, my analysis shows GA is also very good location but mountain communities there don’t have the infrastructure of mid sized towns (i.e. Hendersonville, Greenville, Chattanooga). As mentioned by many in this thread living in rural setting can involve a different way of life - both positive and negative depending on your past experiences. For me, being near (<30 min drive) places to resource good clean food (Grocery), restaurants, entertainment, etc. is important as is having a nice Mountain View, privacy, avoidance of onerous HOA fees, etc. My findings after (and presently still) looking for many, many, months is this “place” is extremely hard to find. If anything, the info exchanged in this thread has influenced me to perhaps make a few more compromises on my requirements.

[pennsiveguy]

A key advantage of being off-the-grid is that you will probably have considerably more freedom to do what you want to do with your property.

I'm in an unincorporated township, and when I built my 32x72 pole barn, getting a building permit was a breeze and the inspector told me it's just a formality though it could be important in the event of an insurance claim.

Except for a single time where the state imposed an outdoor fire ban during a bad drought, I can have a fire whenever I want, anywhere on my land. I've got a couple of big brush piles out in the woods that are tarped-over to keep them dry, that are waiting for more snow cover (so the fire stays contained) and will be lit up once that's in place. The ability to do that saves a lot of effort when it comes to cleaning up after felling a tree. Try burning a 10-foot diameter brush pile in the 'burbs, and you'll end up in the pokey.

Being in an unincorporated area also means in my case there aren't any restrictions on the discharge of firearms. I have 25- and 50- and 100-yard ranges set up, and plans for a 200-yard range though it's not really a priority. I can shoot whenever I get the urge, within the bounds of neighborliness. I plink off my deck with .22s and pistols. I hand-load for rifles, and it's pretty nice to have a shooting bench and a 100-yard range that's about 20 steps away from my loading bench. Makes load development really quick.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by 4Hockey4

We have lived and built in country. Make sure all land has perc test, and ask any neighbors (if any) about well/water tables. (if real rural a test can be done locally)

Also make sure electric can run to property. Not sure on NC, but in VA you need permission from neighbor to run lines, if not already in. (tap into to)

also I'd add, when searching don't just look for land...check out places with cabins or "shacks". Sometimes you can pick that up as cheap as raw land and all the basics, well/septic/electric is in

I'm not sure your comment regarding electric lines is accurate. Running new electric service to a property in a rural location is governed by the Rural Electrification Act of 1936. In short, it will cost the property owner just $50 to have the local electric company run new service to a new structure that has an electric meter. The act specifies that the $50 price is for service run to a location within 2,000 feet of an existing electric service demark (i.e. a utility pole). Right-of-way easements will be handled by the electric utility.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by pennsiveguy

We have an outdoor hot tub, but it's only ever used between the first hard frost (about a month ago) and the first "skeeter" hatch of the Spring. It's about a 6-month season. I'm cool with that...if you'll pardon the pun. There's no better way to end a busy winter day of firewood wrangling and/or wrenching, when your back is a mass of knots, than sitting up against the massage jets under the moonlight. Or soaking in complete silence with all the lights and jets off, on a moonlit night when the temps are below zero and the sky is a mass of stars. Country living at its finest.

All good, until a bear figures out how fun it is to tear into a styrofoam hot tub cover. Lol.

[pennsiveguy]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

All good, until a bear figures out how fun it is to tear into a styrofoam hot tub cover. Lol.

No trouble at all in the 20 years it's been there. We have a nice sturdy insulated and padded vinyl-on-plywood cover that's hinged in the middle and has a locking clasp closure at each corner. I suspect the bears smell the aroma of chlorine coming from underneath it, and it's not a yummy smell. And of course this time of year they're hibernating so it's a moot point. We have had some mice nesting up inside the housing in cold months, but I can take the access panel off and evict them with a few swipes of a broom.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by fubarian

Hi, I live just off the mountain(s) - and have septic, a well, LP (liquid propane). I also have one of those pimptastic outbuildings that's perfectly stupid sized (no, not like that, it's 30x30, it's dumb, ask me why if you have 20 minutes)

Anyway, I've been at this house for over 2 years now and learned a TON about houses like this. Here we go.

About the house :

The propane tanks are owned by the propane companies, so that you don't have to worry about the tank. What do you have to worry about is your boiler and its BTU. This'll give you an idea how much you'll spend in LP. LPs not "cheap" but no where as cheap as natural gas. Our bill for all winter runs somewhere around 1500. It's not a big house but a big open area so that's a bit more than most I'd suspect. We supplement with wood burning stove downstairs and fireplace upstairs. More on that in a minute.

Septic inspections are something you should make the homeowner pay for - they'll give you a video of the pipe going to it, etc etc. This is my second house with one and never had a problem. Don't be a bonehead and put things like bacon grease or have a garbage disposal - you'll have to pay for a ton of stuff if you do, it clogs up f'in everything.

Wells are also something you should have the homeowner pay for. They're pretty much bulletproof. The recommendation I got from the well service around here is "keep the brine and call us if there's a pressure drop". Otherwise, it REALLY SUCKS when the power goes out - the well has its own pressure, but it won't necessarily keep up for the whole day. I plan on getting a generator hookup for it.

Power, to my amazement, has barely been a problem. We lost power during the wildfire for about a day, but that's been it.

Internet sucks but is amazingly relaible. We have "mountain" internet, which is based on a long range radio - max speed is 50mb, we get 35. Physics. I believe at this point it's went out for a total of an hour since we moved in 2 years ago.

Heating the house, it came with water baseboard heat. Not steam. So there's 4" panels that run here and there and when the heat comes on, hot(ish) water is pumped through it and it radiates out. This system totally sucks and I hate it with a passion. I miss HVAC. This system eats propane like you would not believe. So much so that we ran out one time, when it was ~5 degrees out and became a huge @#$% show. We spend about 350 in lumber (~2 cords?) and I'd suspect we'll go through more this year since we're home. I love real fires, so much we replaced a fake fireplace with a real one. One of the things can heat the entire house (srsly) and right now its snowing, the fire's going and I absolutely love it. I'll start another fire upstairs this evening. Because I can.

I sleep in a 1750's era log cabin (read as "a real log cabin") When the wind blows the right way, air blows in through the wall and tickles the hair on my head. Our LP bills in the winter are $600/month. The propane company decided to use a computer to figure out when we needed a delivery. I told them just come every month from Nov. to April. Nope, "their computer is smarter than you". We'd run out of gas every February. I tried to explain his fancy algorithm didn't factor in for the increase of gap space between boards on a 170 year old timber-frame house and 250 year old log cabin in ratio to ambient air temperature. After 3 Februarys, and his ass had to come out at 3 AM to fill our 500 gallon tank, he figured he would just come and top off every month...

[RickFLM4]

This thread makes me appreciate my HOA.

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

This thread makes me appreciate my HOA.

Really?

Most HOA do next to nothing, other than collect their money on time that is.

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by Torgus

Really?

Most HOA do next to nothing, other than collect their money on time that is.

Well for 80 bucks a month, mine is able to at least discourage fires set by residents, bathtubs or junkers in yards (or really any lack of maintenance visible to others), handle common area maintenance, etc.

[fubarian]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

Thanks very useful info! I'm not sure we plan to be in it during the winters all though you never know, I'm sure we may do it once just to see what it's like. If you don't plan to be in the home during winter do you have to take any special precautions? Also I don't think it drops to negative temperatures in western north carolina, at least it's not typical, anything can happen especially if I move there.

Actually saw an awesome property today inside a community but with no restrictions on RVs or rental. Actually had a massive garage/workshop where I could fit the whole RV no problem plus several acres. Could not see my neighbors from the property, but driving around the community everything was very nice.

I've lived in major time suburbia, in a downtown, and now twice in places that's ...out of the way. It's a different world and I can't get away from it. In suburbia, people would cry and whine it's an eyesore and boohoo baby when I'm working on a car. Now they stop by and ask what the hell am I doing now and why do I have YET ANOTHER car. When we first moved in, people left cookies (it was almost christmas) on our front steps and it confused the hell out of my wife. "People...actually do this!?" Uh, YEA, and its awesome. Welcome to the sticks (nom nom nom nom)

Before the covids, we were in GA and the house in CO sat most of the winter. We have a bunch of nests (4 of the damn things, seriously) that kept things under control and since the propane was always topped off - the house never went below 45. That said, we do have a literal wall of windows that helps with "passive solar" (whatever). It sat for almost 6 months and everything was fine. That said, I had brought the house back online during a quick visit sometime in March which I shouldn't have - we didn't make it back until late May. I kinda wanted to be here since the winters are kinda fun instead of the 6 weeks tease of winter I'd get in GA. Meeeeeh.

In regards to winterizing, if you want the house to be dead (meaning you aren't coming back for MONTHS), you'll want to drain the water out of the pipes, clean out all food, and maybe go as far as to turn the power off. At my place in GA, I flipped the breaker down to only a couple circuits that were needed for the security system. Fridge was cleaned out (both empty and I did actually clean all the shelves, etc), garage door slide lock thing pulled and locked, etc etc. That place sat for a little over 9 months, I think I only made it back once to check on it during that time.

As for bears (c'mon, really?) and other wildlife, never had a problem - a rodent of some kind might take up shop in the attic or basement from time to time but they tend to stay the hell away from people. For fun, have an exterminator come by every 3 months or better yet, plan on having them there the first day you get back ...and you'll be fine. It's cheap too, my guy in GA is 65 a quarter and comes by if something shows up (ants, usually)

[fubarian]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

Well for 80 bucks a month, mine is able to at least discourage fires set by residents, bathtubs or junkers in yards (or really any lack of maintenance visible to others), handle common area maintenance, etc.

I'd rather live around responsible people that mind their own business and don't have conditions that are hard to pronounce

[pennsiveguy]

Originally Posted by fubarian

I've lived in major time suburbia, in a downtown, and now twice in places that's ...out of the way. It's a different world and I can't get away from it. In suburbia, people would cry and whine it's an eyesore and boohoo baby when I'm working on a car. Now they stop by and ask what the hell am I doing now and why do I have YET ANOTHER car. When we first moved in, people left cookies (it was almost christmas) on our front steps and it confused the hell out of my wife. "People...actually do this!?" Uh, YEA, and its awesome. Welcome to the sticks (nom nom nom nom)

Before the covids, we were in GA and the house in CO sat most of the winter. We have a bunch of nests (4 of the damn things, seriously) that kept things under control and since the propane was always topped off - the house never went below 45. That said, we do have a literal wall of windows that helps with "passive solar" (whatever). It sat for almost 6 months and everything was fine. That said, I had brought the house back online during a quick visit sometime in March which I shouldn't have - we didn't make it back until late May. I kinda wanted to be here since the winters are kinda fun instead of the 6 weeks tease of winter I'd get in GA. Meeeeeh.

In regards to winterizing, if you want the house to be dead (meaning you aren't coming back for MONTHS), you'll want to drain the water out of the pipes, clean out all food, and maybe go as far as to turn the power off. At my place in GA, I flipped the breaker down to only a couple circuits that were needed for the security system. Fridge was cleaned out (both empty and I did actually clean all the shelves, etc), garage door slide lock thing pulled and locked, etc etc. That place sat for a little over 9 months, I think I only made it back once to check on it during that time.

As for bears (c'mon, really?) and other wildlife, never had a problem - a rodent of some kind might take up shop in the attic or basement from time to time but they tend to stay the hell away from people. For fun, have an exterminator come by every 3 months or better yet, plan on having them there the first day you get back ...and you'll be fine. It's cheap too, my guy in GA is 65 a quarter and comes by if something shows up (ants, usually)

We've only had one bear that was an a$$hole and had to be dealt with. He was coming around in the daytime and coming right up onto the deck and refusing to scram, despite me going out within 20 feet of him and lighting off a couple rounds from my .450 S&W Mag. First attempt to be rid of him was when the Wisconsin DNR brought out and set up a trap. Caught him on the 3rd night, although it's hard to know for sure if it was really the a$$hole bear or just another one about his/her size. They came and towed away the trap. Not sure where they dumped him off.

The a$$hole was back 4 days later. Had to wait 'til my tree-hugger mom wasn't around, whereupon he somehow managed to contract lead poisoning of a very high velocity strain. Neighbor came over with his backhoe and buried it. Problem solved.