Question for those with property in the boonies

[dreamingat30fps]

So I'm looking to buy some property out of state, specifically probably in NC. Now I have only purchased homes in FL that were in the "city" if you will. They have city water, city sewer, clearly defined property line.

However most properties I'm looking at have none of that and are out in the mountains. I imagine most of them are on septic and wells, but I honestly have no idea what to look for or what questions to even ask about those systems so I don't end up with a headache. Is that something a home inspection on these areas would include?

Also I have noticed something in NC and also SC... not sure if I recall seeing this in TN also but maybe. WTF is up with these like shanty villages? I'm not even sure what to call them. You will be out in the mountains and you have some very large, very expensive looking properties and literally down the street you have a bunch of what I imagine were mobile homes at some point, but are now dilapidated to the point where some don't have ceilings or windows, but yet there are cars there and many times people. Is it normal to have these just scattered about all over the place?

The closer I get to actually buying something the more complicated it seems to get.

[chassis]

There are shanty villages in the mountains of Pennsylvania. In that case they are mainly hunting properties/shacks/mobile homes. The land the shack is sitting on is tiny, and the land the hunters use for hunting is acreage located away from the shack or public land.

Steep mountain grade, unpaved or poor roads, and poor/no services in the past decades meant low demand, particularly from people with money to spend to put in facilities and a larger dwelling. Over time things change and buyers with money to spend, wanting to avoid the now-trendy and expensive areas will migrate into the historically less desirable places.

Township zoning also plays a role in this, in terms of the type of structure, set back, utilities, etc.

Be careful if you are looking at properties along a stream that parallels a road. There may be no conventional driveway and instead a cable or chain bridge to cross to gain access to the property. The county would not maintain such a structure to your property and the expense of a reconstruction could be substantial. Lots of this in mountainous areas.

No offense intended - you don’t seem to be too familiar with rural countryside in general. I have driven through most states east of the Mississippi and have seen versions of what you describe.

[kscarrol]

Just sold our land in NC but will move there eventually though a little closer to civilization than what you are looking for. Septic for sure, well water will depend how close you are to civilization. Property must have enough space for house footprint and appropriate setbacks for the septic field.

Keep in mind that building on grade is more expensive than flat land... quite a bit more. And the NC/SC area is booming because of folks like yourself so construction costs are rising as well.

Is the land maintained by some municipality/city/county? More of a NC/mountain issue but they do get occasional snow and ice. Are the roads plowed? We owned in a development where the home owners association handled that along with general road maintenance.

As for for the mobile home question, get used to it. When you go rural you are moving into this, kind of like moving to the country and complaining the bears are eating your garbage. I have seen some pretty impressive roadside flea markets (for lack of a better term) where folks are selling all kinds of junk on the side of the road. Many empty/abandoned buildings as well...

[vreihen16]

Those "shanty villages" as you call them are full of the neighbors who won't come running to help put the fire at your house out when someone burns it down for insulting their culture and lifestyles.

Remember, no municipal water means no fire hydrants...and usually a volunteer fire department.....

[kscarrol]

I will add my $0.02 but while there is a lot of charm to the country, if you are from a more urban area the change can be stark. My dad used to own a beautiful place in the mountains of NC. Great development with golf etc... but it was a 45 minute drive to Asheville, the nearest "civilization". That's a long way if you want to go eat at a restaurant and then drive home.

Also many of these areas are really summer only places with most folks around from April to October. If you are looking to live there full time be aware that you may be very isolated for an extended period over the winter...

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by kscarrol

Just sold our land in NC but will move there eventually though a little closer to civilization than what you are looking for. Septic for sure, well water will depend how close you are to civilization. Property must have enough space for house footprint and appropriate setbacks for the septic field.

Keep in mind that building on grade is more expensive than flat land... quite a bit more. And the NC/SC area is booming because of folks like yourself so construction costs are rising as well.

Is the land maintained by some municipality/city/county? More of a NC/mountain issue but they do get occasional snow and ice. Are the roads plowed? We owned in a development where the home owners association handled that along with general road maintenance.

As for for the mobile home question, get used to it. When you go rural you are moving into this, kind of like moving to the country and complaining the bears are eating your garbage. I have seen some pretty impressive roadside flea markets (for lack of a better term) where folks are selling all kinds of junk on the side of the road. Many empty/abandoned buildings as well...

You sold the land in / near Asheville? I thought we’d be retirement neighbors!

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by chassis

There are shanty villages in the mountains of Pennsylvania. In that case they are mainly hunting properties/shacks/mobile homes. The land the shack is sitting on is tiny, and the land the hunters use for hunting is acreage located away from the shack or public land.

Steep mountain grade, unpaved or poor roads, and poor/no services in the past decades meant low demand, particularly from people with money to spend to put in facilities and a larger dwelling. Over time things change and buyers with money to spend, wanting to avoid the now-trendy and expensive areas will migrate into the historically less desirable places.

Township zoning also plays a role in this, in terms of the type of structure, set back, utilities, etc.

Be careful if you are looking at properties along a stream that parallels a road. There may be no conventional driveway and instead a cable or chain bridge to cross to gain access to the property. The county would not maintain such a structure to your property and the expense of a reconstruction could be substantial. Lots of this in mountainous areas.

No offense intended - you don’t seem to be too familiar with rural countryside in general. I have driven through most states east of the Mississippi and have seen versions of what you describe.

Thanks. We have spent time in NC & SC but I guess we were closer to the major cities and or didn't notice/care if we did see them as we were not looking to buy anything at the time.

We were looking at one house that's parallel to a stream/river and road but it's on the road side, so you go straight from the road to the house. I'm guessing that's not what you are referring to.

Originally Posted by kscarrol

Just sold our land in NC but will move there eventually though a little closer to civilization than what you are looking for. Septic for sure, well water will depend how close you are to civilization. Property must have enough space for house footprint and appropriate setbacks for the septic field.

Keep in mind that building on grade is more expensive than flat land... quite a bit more. And the NC/SC area is booming because of folks like yourself so construction costs are rising as well.

Is the land maintained by some municipality/city/county? More of a NC/mountain issue but they do get occasional snow and ice. Are the roads plowed? We owned in a development where the home owners association handled that along with general road maintenance.

As for for the mobile home question, get used to it. When you go rural you are moving into this, kind of like moving to the country and complaining the bears are eating your garbage. I have seen some pretty impressive roadside flea markets (for lack of a better term) where folks are selling all kinds of junk on the side of the road. Many empty/abandoned buildings as well...

We are definitely looking to buy something already built. One property is on a US Hwy so I would imagine that is maintained by the county/state. The other is on county roads but definitely has it's own private road up to the property, not very far, but I'm pretty sure that one would be my problem.

Originally Posted by vreihen16

Those "shanty villages" as you call them are full of the neighbors who won't come running to help put the fire at your house out when someone burns it down for insulting their culture and lifestyles.

Remember, no municipal water means no fire hydrants...and usually a volunteer fire department.....

So that's an insult? What should I call them then? Rustic, finely aged shed community? Seems everyone knew exactly what it was when I said shanty village. As long as it's a shed community and not a crack house I got no problem. Hopefully they don't question why I'm always chilling naked in my jacuzzi. Live and let live.

Originally Posted by kscarrol

I will add my $0.02 but while there is a lot of charm to the country, if you are from a more urban area the change can be stark. My dad used to own a beautiful place in the mountains of NC. Great development with golf etc... but it was a 45 minute drive to Asheville, the nearest "civilization". That's a long way if you want to go eat at a restaurant and then drive home.

Also many of these areas are really summer only places with most folks around from April to October. If you are looking to live there full time be aware that you may be very isolated for an extended period over the winter...

It would definitely be a summer home. We would be keeping our home in FL. Maybe get into doing vacation rentals, but not sure I want to deal with that yet. Really just want a nice cabin, with some land where we and family can go in the summer and fall and relax. We also like to travel with our RV and I think it would be a better launching off point than FL for short trips. The stuff we are looking at as is in that 30-40min to Asheville area.

[vreihen16]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

So that's an insult? What should I call them then? Rustic, finely aged shed community? ... Hopefully they don't question why I'm always chilling naked in my jacuzzi. Live and let live.

So now you're one of those purdy-mouthed city boys who comes out into our simple community and flaunts their money with hot tubs and fancy German cars? You've already got two strikes for being an outsider from the city, and not sharing the same gene pool as everyone else in town. Insult my banjo playing or my family's multi-generational homestead and see who will come running when you need emergency help!

Seriously though, I am the "richest" person in a rural-ish neighborhood surrounded by woods. The guy up the street has a half dozen bathtubs on his lawn, and a guy down the street has 20+ cars junked in his yard. Several houses are owned by long-time residents who are all related. It took about 7-8 years to get accepted into the neighborhood, but the benefits are free snow plowing, help loading/unloading big items, and a surprise plate of ribs fresh out of the smoker every few months. Let the neighbors grab any trees that fall in our yard for firewood, and everyone is happy. Oh, and don't forget to wave to any and all neighbors if they're outside as you drive past. Very important part of being neighborly and accepted into a rural community.....

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by vreihen16

So now you're one of those purdy-mouthed city boys who comes out into our simple community and flaunts their money with hot tubs and fancy German cars? You've already got two strikes for being an outsider from the city, and not sharing the same gene pool as everyone else in town. Insult my banjo playing or my family's multi-generational homestead and see who will come running when you need emergency help!

Seriously though, I am the "richest" person in a rural-ish neighborhood surrounded by woods. The guy up the street has a half dozen bathtubs on his lawn, and a guy down the street has 20+ cars junked in his yard. Several houses are owned by long-time residents who are all related. It took about 7-8 years to get accepted into the neighborhood, but the benefits are free snow plowing, help loading/unloading big items, and a surprise plate of ribs fresh out of the smoker every few months. Let the neighbors grab any trees that fall in our yard for firewood, and everyone is happy. Oh, and don't forget to wave to any and all neighbors if they're outside as you drive past. Very important part of being neighborly and accepted into a rural community.....

Would it help reduce the purdiness of my mouth if I were to divulge that said hot tub was inflatable? I also drive a Ford truck Murcia pew pew!!!

[vreihen16]

If your hot tub doesn't consist of a plastic tarp in the back of a broken-down pickup on your front lawn, you will not be accepted. Oh, put the truck up on blocks for good measure.

Guess we should talk about your music preferences now. There's a difference between those purdy-mouthed city-boy country music singers who have never had mud on their boots and "real" country music performers. Don't think that cranking up city-boy country music will make you any friends among the people who are looking for a reason to burn your house down as a message to all of the other city-boys thinking about desecrating their way of life.....

[chassis]

@dreamingat30fps Do you have an expectation or target for financial return on this property? A rural or non-improved site will have very little, if any, appreciation. A subdivision with HOA, in a rural (less-developed) area within one hour of a medium-sized city, would have a better chance at appreciation.

[BMWCCA1]

I haven't lived in a house with municipal water or sewer for over 40-years. I love my well water and have had no septic issues. Have your well tested and it's easy to have someone check-out your septic. That is if they can find the tank, D-box, and field.

Some counties have more restrictive zoning than others. This limits what can be built but usually goes hand-in-hand with higher taxes and better schools. Retirement areas don't care about schools and usually have lower taxes. Home values in our county with higher taxes and excellent schools can run 100% higher than the same home in surrounding counties. Take your pick based on what you want. You generally won't find restrictive zoning that protects your home value and low taxes at the same time. Pick one.

[Maynard]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

... As long as it's a shed community and not a crack house I got no problem. ......

I believe that in the country you have Meth barns; crack is for you prissy city folk.

But seriously, you need to find and read up on some more detailed info about water supply (toxic waste, e coli), drainage (like during floods), and living in a rural area. What the locals are like is also a big factor. These setups really can be more 'close contact' with neighbors than the city would ever be, even if there are only a dozen of them in the surrounding few miles.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by chassis

@dreamingat30fps Do you have an expectation or target for financial return on this property? A rural or non-improved site will have very little, if any, appreciation. A subdivision with HOA, in a rural (less-developed) area within one hour of a medium-sized city, would have a better chance at appreciation.

While it's not an investment property per say, having it appreciate would be a nice side benefit, however we mostly want it to use it ourselves. We both work from home (since before the rona) so we would probably split our time between here and FL. I always like to have options though so I do want a home that's large enough that we could live in it full time if for whatever reason we needed to do that also having the ability to rent it out is also important... again just in case.

While I despise HOAs in South Florida I'm honestly not completely opposed to an HOA property here. It seems HOAs are more lax and the fees are waaaaaay cheaper. However the biggest thing I'm finding with the HOAs is one the lots are usually smaller and less private, two most will not allow me to keep my RV on the property which is where we plan to keep it when not traveling and lastly many have restrictions on renting the property out. If we find a property in an HOA that allows for that I would definitely consider it.

Originally Posted by vreihen16

If your hot tub doesn't consist of a plastic tarp in the back of a broken-down pickup on your front lawn, you will not be accepted. Oh, put the truck up on blocks for good measure.

Guess we should talk about your music preferences now. There's a difference between those purdy-mouthed city-boy country music singers who have never had mud on their boots and "real" country music performers. Don't think that cranking up city-boy country music will make you any friends among the people who are looking for a reason to burn your house down as a message to all of the other city-boys thinking about desecrating their way of life.....

Not worried, I only listen to country music on my airpods pro while sipping miller high life!

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

I haven't lived in a house with municipal water or sewer for over 40-years. I love my well water and have had no septic issues. Have your well tested and it's easy to have someone check-out your septic. That is if they can find the tank, D-box, and field.

Some counties have more restrictive zoning than others. This limits what can be built but usually goes hand-in-hand with higher taxes and better schools. Retirement areas don't care about schools and usually have lower taxes. Home values in our county with higher taxes and excellent schools can run 100% higher than the same home in surrounding counties. Take your pick based on what you want. You generally won't find restrictive zoning that protects your home value and low taxes at the same time. Pick one.

We don't have kids so not worried about schools. From the properties we have looked at even the highest property tax ones were a lot less than where we live in FL, like half or less.

[Torgus]

I hope you know how to protect yourself.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by Torgus

I hope you know how to protect yourself.

We know how this ends...

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

We know how this ends...

C'mon maaaan! I'm sure I'll blend right in!

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

We know how this ends...

Seriously. It's is a different world living in the country.

Those shanty towns are full of meth heads. Hint, they don't steal from the poor. There are no Police or Fire department to come to your aid, or if they do show it's significantly later than needed. If your not into fishing and hunting and a serious outdoors person who enjoys the challenges of living out in the middle of no where I see no reason to live there in the 'real country' so far from civilization. Just find a secluded house on land near society with 10+ acres. You will feel plenty secluded and be left alone. Just put a gate up.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by Torgus

Seriously. It's is a different world living in the country.

Those shanty towns are full of meth heads. Hint, they don't steal from the poor. There are no Police or Fire department to come to your aid, or if they do show it's significantly later than needed. If your not into fishing and hunting and a serious outdoors person who enjoys the challenges of living out in the middle of no where I see no reason to live there in the 'real country' so far from civilization. Just find a secluded house on land near society with 10+ acres. You will feel plenty secluded and be left alone. Just put a gate up.

"Just find a secluded house on land near society with 10+ acres. You will feel plenty secluded and be left alone. Just put a gate up."

Honestly that's what I want. I guess I didn't realize the boonies were literally 30min outside a major city. If I go 30min in any direction back home.... it's still pretty much the same. You might end up in the bad part of town, but even there they don't live in shacks. In fact many of our trailer parks have some of the harshest HOAs.

I have been researching HOA communities in the area and honestly not bad. A lot of them have almost no restrictions as far as rental and RVs, but they look to be much "cleaner" than other properties. So I may look into that.

[pennsiveguy]

I can share some thoughts about rural living. I split my time between an apartment in the city and a cabin that's about 90 minutes away. I built the cabin new in 2000-2001, with a new well and septic system. I went with electric appliances and geothermal HVAC because I didn't want a big ugly LP gas tank in my yard. Other thoughts, in no particular order:

1. The locals will shun you if they get even the faintest whiff of "rich city-slicker." My X5 stays in the shed the whole time I'm there, and I run errands and haul stuff around in an old Ford Excursion. The fancy watches stay home.
2. If you want water that's "city water clean," you may be in for some sticker shock when it comes to water treatment system, depending on what your well water is like. The soil where I'm at is full of iron, and after some expensive experimentation I settled on a Kinetico system that cost as much as a good used car. So I don't have to clean toilets twice a week and my t-shirts stay white.
3. Don't buy more land than you're willing and able to maintain. It sounds great, having the remoteness and privacy that you get from a larger parcel. But the downside is that if you want to keep it looking somewhat decent, it can be a lot of work and you can end up being a poorly-paid groundskeeper. I don't keep my place looking like a golf course or a city park, but I have a network of trails through it and I keep the trails clear and mowed and the land adjacent to the trails is kept reasonably free of downfall trees and messy-looking bramble patches. It's a lot of work. I down-sized a bit after my dad passed, since he used to spend a lot of time there and helped out a lot with the upkeep.
4. It can be really hard to find good help for maintenance and repairs and odd jobs. I've had some frustrating experiences with this, although not as many as some folks because I do almost everything myself. I had a huge raspberry patch that was overgrown and not bearing much fruit, which I wanted torn out so I could replant that area of the garden with something else. I found a guy willing to do it for $25/hr cash. He worked one day and got about 30% of the job done. I made the mistake of paying him at the end of the day, and he never showed up again. A neighbor has had the same experience, as has another friend whose cabin is 15 miles away - not with the same guy, mind you. It's as if they get enough money in their pockets to pay for a night at the tavern, and they "retire."
5. If you're a "city kid" like I am - or you're educated, literate, well-traveled, and well-spoken - you'll find very few social opportunities unless you're willing to play the role of the "weirdo" or the "rich kid" or "city-slicker" or whatever stereotype the locals brand you with. If you drink like your guts are on fire, that'll help you fit in somewhat; I don't. I go to my cabin for solitude and to tinker and build stuff, so this doesn't detract from my ability to do any of that. I've been fortunate to forge good alliances with my neighbors and we share and trade-off some chores and look after each others' places, but I still feel like an outsider after 20 years. The locals all think I'm crazy as a shit-house rat, and that I have more money than brains or sense. I don't care, but some people would.

[wcr3d]

If you have all your teeth you are purdy

[pennsiveguy]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

We know how this ends...

That guy put the man in romance.