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05-06-2022, 11:53 AM | #111 | |
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Basically...at 11 cents per kwh, I can fill an empty charge for around 9 bucks. I generally drive 20-30 miles a day so that ends up around 10 kwh per day, or around a buck a day. So, roughly 30 to 50 dollars a month (upper end) for fuel costs. Comparatively, I would be spending ~200 a month on gasoline. |
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05-06-2022, 11:54 AM | #112 | |
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05-06-2022, 12:58 PM | #113 | |
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Your mileage may vary but I'm not sure who wouldn't absolutely LOVE driving this thing every day. All my buddies that were staunch EV haters that have test drove my car have, afterwards, said they get it. But I get why you might get bored of the Tesla. I wouldn't want to look at it every day. This however? Me gusta. |
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05-06-2022, 01:55 PM | #114 | |
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Then there is the problem of going to the track. I enjoy driving my car at the track - taking the car to the limit in safe environment. A Tesla Model 3 can only do 1-2 lap before it overheats and goes into limp mode. Then it also drains 80-90% of the battery in 20 minutes of track time. That means you need to supercharge 5-6 times a day on a normal track day. My friends who bring their Tesla to the track usually don't do it again because its not practical and is no fun. They spend all day driving to and from superchargers only to do 2 flying lap and then limp into the pits. So it comes down to this. I need 3 cars if I have an EV. The EV for every day, a long distance car and a fun car. All those can be 1 car for a gas powered sports car.
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05-06-2022, 02:08 PM | #115 | |
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Also, power at night is cheaper than during peak times, so I actually set a schedule so the car would only charge from like 11pm-8am. We also just used the standard charger (level 1) that came with the car, never bothered getting a level 2. We never ran ours out of charge either, typically never below 50% actually. Just plugged it in when we got home, and unplugged it when it was full. Our power bill each month was ~$15-25 higher than usual. Wife and I also both work from home, so we didn't drive much anyways, hence why we sold it. |
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05-06-2022, 02:11 PM | #116 | |
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I did not notice a change when I had my model 3 but I don't track my electric usage very closely and we go back and forth from here and NC so it can vary by a lot. However it's pretty easy to figure out. The model 3 I believe had a 75 kwh battery. In FL where I had it I pay at most $0.7 kwh so a full charge from empty would cost $5.25. Considering how little we drive and the fact we have other vehicles also I can imagine it had any significant impact on the bill. |
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05-07-2022, 07:29 AM | #117 |
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I've posted articles from this guy before, he's an electrical engineer by trade and an automotive writer for decades. He often writes about the pro's and con's of EV's etc and often debunks the pro and con stories about them. This is an interesting article reporting on European Testing of EV's vs ICE and the actual GHG savings over lifecycle.
Motor Mouth: European safety agency says EVs not as green as promised New Green NCAP environmental ratings challenge electric vehicles’ CO2-reducing bona fides, and put ICEs not far behind them: https://driving.ca/column/motor-mout...en-as-promised |
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05-07-2022, 04:57 PM | #118 | ||
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Also " ICE people don't need to charge at home because they can recharge 400 miles of range in 5 minutes, practically anywhere any time they want." They can't gas up at home, so that's really not anywhere and anytime they want. I'm being nit-picky, I know, but to be fair, so are you. I don't need 400 miles of range, and I don't need to refuel 400 miles from home because that's not what I used my EV for. I had an 80 mile commute, it was perfect for that, and it did the job better than an ICE.
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05-08-2022, 01:13 AM | #119 |
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Be sure to ask the blind person if pedestrian detection and emergency intervention that prevents a driver from hitting them is a good idea too. These aren't inherently EV features, but EVs tend to showcase the highest autonomous driving tech and safety features like this. In any case, I'm sure the blind person would want these features standard on all cars...
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05-08-2022, 01:15 AM | #120 | |
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05-08-2022, 10:17 AM | #121 |
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I've read recently that due to the rapid evolution of EV vehicles that the anticipated depreciation is much more rapid on them. I guess one way to test that statement would be to ask those that are leasing what the residual value is at the end of their lease? Lower than would be expected for a similar ICE vehicle?
If the depreciation/resale/trade value falls more quickly on these vehicles, I wonder if that wipes out any tax incentive for buying them? I'm really not at all a fan of the appearance of Teslas. Around Annapolis they seem to be about every 5th car on the road - everyone seems to have one. Meh, plain looking like it could easily be a cheap economy model from a pedestrian brand - but can cost over $100K! A friend was recently asking me if I thought Rivian was a good company to invest some money in. My thought is with how rapidly the major players (BMW, Mercedes, other big domestic brands) are rolling out really nice EVs that are being well accepted that Rivian and Lucid have missed the market and Tesla is about to finally have their market tested for real. |
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05-08-2022, 10:41 AM | #122 |
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EV is forecast to be 50% of new vehicle builds in North America by 2029. 10% is in no one’s minds.
Follow the money - investments are being made in product (batteries) and infrastructure (charging). The body, chassis and drivetrain aspects of EVs are solved and are trivial compared to batteries and infrastructure. I will be pumping petrojuice until it is no longer available. Electrification is coming, however. |
05-08-2022, 10:53 AM | #123 | |
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Most unreliable pos I've owned was my 335. Yet my 2006 BMW Z4MR was pretty bullet proof during the 5 or 6 years I owned it. I only owned the model 3 for a year and a half or so but it was a 2018 and I had no issues other than the 12v battery go out, which would have been a very easy swap, but it was still covered under warranty so I let Tesla deal with it. They came to my house and swapped it on the spot. I'm betting most of the people super concerned about battery life wouldn't own a BMW out of warranty anyways. |
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05-08-2022, 10:56 AM | #124 | ||
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05-08-2022, 11:06 AM | #125 |
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They are tied together. The market needs to be manipulated/regulated to allow for something to be adopted to become more practical. It's the same way oil is subsidized.
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05-08-2022, 11:13 AM | #126 | |
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05-08-2022, 12:25 PM | #127 | |
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With EV it’s far easier to implement vehicle subscription services. Want more horsepower? Pay for the subscription. Want a different horn tone? Pay for the subscription. This subscription model lines the pockets of carmakers, above and beyond the profit gained from less assembly plant labor. Charging infrastructure is a red herring and is meaningless. The profit motive of carmakers and regulatory actions by governments mean whatever infrastructure is needed will be in place. The government doesn’t really care where the ball bounces. Tax revenue opportunities abound at every step of the journey. It’s not about the environment. It’s about carmaker profits. |
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05-08-2022, 12:40 PM | #128 |
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The delta is a function of the cost of electricity and usage. I have not noticed a material difference in my electric bill pre and post EV because the cost of electricity is low in GA relative to most states. I pay $0.05 per kWh and have a 82 kWh battery pack capacity in my EV. It costs me about $3.85 per full charge and that gets me about 270 miles. I drive 800-1,000 miles per month so the cost is $11-14 per month.
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05-08-2022, 01:01 PM | #129 | ||
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05-08-2022, 02:37 PM | #130 | |
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05-08-2022, 02:46 PM | #131 | |
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Right now very few people are leasing an EV because the tax credit requires you purchase the vehicle. You lose the 7500 if you lease. Ford addressed this with a hybrid program called "options" which gives you a customized lease like loan, financing a portion of the vehicle based on residual. My residual was still in the high 40s as I recall but right now, 8 months after purchase, I could trade in my GT for more than I paid for it and supply isn't going to get better on these within the next year at least, I'm sure. At the end of my 3 year "options" plan, I suspect the car will still be worth nearly what I paid...if not more. |
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05-08-2022, 08:48 PM | #132 | |
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Well, the fact is they exist, there's nothing to debate or disagree with there. Oil Subsidies are government measures to control the price and supply of oil. The economy benefits from them because it is so dependent on oil prices that it has to be controlled to stabilize the economy and keep the supply flowing. If you are arguing for the market to naturally determine adaptation, that's simply not possible. Oil is already artificially supported by subsidies. It's already got an unfair advantage. The EV needs the same type of support to even stand a chance.
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