Top issues

[RobbiZ4]

Originally Posted by bryanhoag

Great! Thanks for the info.
I guess I can just wait until it becomes more of an issue. Thankfully, I've never had any issue putting it up.

Sometime in the future we will meet again at this place (or in Charlotte?). Good luck!

[bryanhoag]

Thanks Robbi! If you're ever in Charlotte, let me know!

[RobbiZ4]

Yesterday I've replaced the complete hydraulic harness in the roof shell of another Z4.
It's like an operation on the open heart respectively in the trunc.

2 harness, old and new
Y-structure for both sides, connected in the trunc
the visible length is about 3.5m on both wings
24m of hydraulic lines on each harness
Temporarily 2 harness in the car, 2x24m=48m hydraulic lines in the trunc!

[bryanhoag]

Thanks for the photos. Looks like quite the process! Not a job I'll ever attempt...

[RobbiZ4]

Originally Posted by bryanhoag

Thanks for the photos. Looks like quite the process! Not a job I'll ever attempt...

Any news?
When shall I plan a trip to Charlotte? :-)

Tomorrow the next Z4 is waiting for a harness replacement. And another one with yet unknown roof issues, may be wires, may be hydraulic hoses.

[bryanhoag]

RobbiZ4 haven't done anything yet. Have been out of the country for the last few weeks. Will give it some thought this week. Let me know if you're in town!

[Romer]

Robbie - I appluad you for doing that. My top stuck in the full up position. I couldnt open the trunk nor roll down my windows so I was kind of stuck

I took it to an Independent shop and he said it had failed before and someone had done a hack job of repairing. He gave me the choice of just repairing the broken wire or replacing the complete harness. I opted for the complete harness at $1100 parts and labor

[bryanhoag]

RobbiZ4 Okay Robbi. I finally managed to catch my top malfunctioning on camera. Here is a link:

I have a SmartTop module installed and am doing everything in the video from the key fob (I never touch the top with my hand). On the first try, the top freezes once the pieces are stacked. The light on the console goes from green to red. I re-start the opening process from the key fob and the top finishes the opening process normally. I then close the top. Then I reopen the top and it opens completely normally on the second attempt without freezing.

To me this is confusing. If there were a cable or hydraulic line issue, it seems like it would be a consistent problem.

I guess one thing I haven't done yet is plug an OBD reader in when the malfunction occurs and the light turns red. Maybe it would show a code?

Would love your thoughts. Thanks!

[RobbiZ4]

Well, wire issues unfortunately are not consistent, but a bit depending on temperature, weekdays or even moon cycles. :-)

I assume that one of the microswitches, that detect the trunc position, is weakened.
There is a small spring mounted on the MS, that gets weakened after 10 years of permanent stretching. My recommendation in the German ZRoadster.com forum is to get it replaced after 8-10 years.

[bryanhoag]

Thanks for the info. Keep me posted.

Should a fault code show when the red light is on? And, would that pinpoint the faulty switch (if a switch is the issue)?

[RobbiZ4]

No, fault codes will be stored only in rare situations, i.e. a completely broken wires.

But if you own an OBD reader just give it a try. There might be a fault code (or not). If it is microswitch or hall sensor you can pretty sure its one of the wires on the right side.

When did you replace the 2 salmon relays of the hydraulic pump in the trunc as announced earlier in this thread?


For all others:
These 2 relays (about 35€) can be the source of malfunctions of the roof, or in rare cases, destroy the complete hydraulic pump (>3.000€)

Have a look at my explanations in the German ZRoadster forum. You can use translate.google.com:
https://translate.google.com/transla...ahre.133521%2F

[RobbiZ4]

Retractable hardtop maintenance:

2 salmon relays every 5 years to avoid destroyed hydraulic pumps. The manufacturing date is printed on it as YYWW.
2x rear ventilations behind the bumper: all 2009 and 2010 Z4
2 gas pressurised props on the main columns to support the hydraulic pump and get a smoother landing of the roof package
2 microswitches on the left and right kinematic boxes every 8-10 year to avoid unexpected stops of the CTM
1 roof harness after 8-12 years to replace broken wires and hydraulic hoses
1 oil change on the hydraulic pump after 8-10 year, you need 1l of (i.e. Febi or Mercedes) ZH-M hydraulic oil

[bryanhoag]

Salmon relays were replaced around June 10, 2019.

Reproduced the issue today and checked for fault codes... basic OBD reader did not show any codes. Tried Carly but could not get it to connect correctly. I've always had a heck of a time getting Carly to connect well and have tried multiple iOS devices. Anyone recommend any alternatives to Carly mainly for diagnostic purposes?

When I reproduced the issue today I was sitting in the car using the center console buttons. Had a bit of a panic because the roof remained in the stacked position with the trunk open and would not go in either direction using the center console buttons. I got out and was able to close and then re-open the roof with the fob (weird?).

Your list as well as this entire thread and others is why I want someone to just completely overhaul the system... fix, replace, refurbish everything... rather than fix things as they break. I'd like to have like 5 years where I can use the top without much concern.

I wish they had just stuck with a soft top... or wish someone out there had a soft top retrofit. Had zero issues with the old Z3 and Z3 era M Roadster.

Oh well!

[RobbiZ4]

Flight ticket?

Is this stop rather new or the standard behaviour since you replaced the relays in june?
What is the date print on both relays on the left, 18xx or 19xx or elder?

I' m using Carly on Android. You have to select the correct manufacturing date to get it to read fault codes.

[bryanhoag]

Issue first noticed prior to salmon relay change and persisted after. Will check the relay dates when I can.

[RobbiZ4]

Originally Posted by RobbiZ4

Well, wire issues unfortunately are not consistent, but a bit depending on temperature, weekdays or even moon cycles. :-)

I assume that one of the microswitches, that detect the trunc position, is weakened.
There is a small spring mounted on the MS, that gets weakened after 10 years of permanent stretching. My recommendation in the German ZRoadster.com forum is to get it replaced after 8-10 years.

After intensive discussions with @germinator, we are pretty sure that the following is your problem:

the microswitches on the left and right kinematic boxes

This description is exact and can be used. I need about 1 hour for both sides of the car, should be possible within 2 hours for somebody who is following NewTIS.

[bryanhoag]

Awesome! I made an appointment with a convertible top shop for this Thursday. Hopefully they will agree or at least listen to me that they should try replacing these first.

[RobbiZ4]

[bryanhoag]

Wow... great post. Hopefully the shop will take a look at this thread if they aren't 100% sure on what to do.

I should fly to Germany and pay you to teach me the ins and outs of this top and become your USA counterpart!

[RobbiZ4]

Flight ticket 4 me?

[bryanhoag]

Just thinking back to my experience earlier. Any idea why I was able to get the top to "un-freeze" with the key fob but not the center console buttons?

Would the SmartTop module bypass some system that was preventing the center console buttons from making the top function?

I would have been SOL without the key fob!

[bryanhoag]

And I already asked your price for travel, labor and parts!