New 2009 2010 BMW Z4 - ZPOST
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   New 2009 2010 BMW Z4 - ZPOST > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > Professional Motorsport Racing Discussion (IMSA, DTM, Formula 1, Grand-AM, Le Mans, IRL, WRC, etc..)

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-15-2022, 11:40 AM   #177
minn19
Lieutenant General
minn19's Avatar
13970
Rep
10,061
Posts

Drives: 24 Z06, 23 CT4VBW, 22 PFinder
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Minnesota

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB1 View Post
You have mentioned this before and I’ve read the FIA press release and all other F1 release since and they have said nothing of the sort. RBR are current being investigated for both procedural and cost breach, nothing more nothing less.

We have all read conjecture in the media but it’s not fact. Plus, when a business has a budget it’s a total. IT chooses where to spend the money, so if they decide to spend some of the money on free food that’s fine but it doesn’t come from fresh air it needs to be paid for.

The regs are clear on what is in or out even how much engine producers are allowed to spend. If you aren’t clear, you ask or in RBR case, put your head in the sand, spend then ask for forgiveness.
Plus the questionable way they are paying Newey. Plus every other team figured out how to feed their staff etc within budget. Nobody looks malnourished on other teams unless they are keeping them off camera. Finally, if they pay more for catering that’s less money for car development in the budget. Watch F1 teams now make everyone brown bag it to work. Last, as you’ve said we still don’t know all the details because RBR and FIA won’t release them.

If you add Newley’s contract in the I understand it, they are massively over budget. Unless they will say he really didn’t design the car?
Appreciate 2
MontyB11364.00
irunalot1515.50
      10-15-2022, 01:08 PM   #178
///M Power-Belgium
General
///M Power-Belgium's Avatar
Belgium
62740
Rep
24,511
Posts

Drives: ///M3-E92-DCT Silverstone II
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3WC View Post
Not shot this is true.

If it is...lol.
__________________
"MAX VERSTAPPEN" IS THE 2021+2022+2023 F1 WORLD CHAMPION - #UnLeashTheLion

BPM DEV-Tune & DCT Software-Tune & Servotronic & coding ///Alpine HID Angeleyes ///Oem.exhaust mod.
Appreciate 1
M5Rick58879.50
      10-15-2022, 04:07 PM   #179
Chihuahua
Brigadier General
Chihuahua's Avatar
4011
Rep
3,171
Posts

Drives: E30 329iS, E65 Alpina B7
Join Date: May 2012
Location: ATL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls View Post
This is and will always be the case. It comes down to did your team do it better than the others. The answer is no for the last 8 years which is why some people are more salty than others.
Exactly. Remember Renault's mass damper? Ferrari's strawberry shortcake fuel? I recently watched a youtube video where McLaren once had a third brake pedal hidden away for several races until a savvy photographer caught it in a photo. It's always been a thing and will always be a thing in F1.
Appreciate 0
      10-16-2022, 09:25 PM   #180
g21
Brigadier General
g21's Avatar
3577
Rep
3,977
Posts

Drives: M340T M550i EV6GT
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: Australasia

iTrader: (0)

ah Adrian Newey has nothing to do with car development, he must be their building painter

https://insideracing.com/formula-1/1...-breach-report
Appreciate 3
MontyB11364.00
minn1913970.00
irunalot1515.50
      10-17-2022, 03:15 AM   #181
MontyB1
Lieutenant Colonel
1364
Rep
1,754
Posts

Drives: BMW X3
Join Date: Nov 2021
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

He certainly seems to be in the middle of it all.

Also funny reading good old Bernie Ecclestone speaking out, he things the punishment will be worse than then being stripped of the 21 season. I'd take his comments with a pinch of salt but I suspect he is just through fuel on the fire as he normally does.

Still no Red Bull accounts to look over, funny that double breach of UK accounting law and FIA cost cap breach.

I race this weekend it will be interesting to see what the teams and FIA have to say about it as the spotlight is away when there is no race, but its about to get a focus again announcement of an ABA maybe for the weekend or more damage to Red Bulls reputation as a team appearing to full on cheat by overspending. MMMmm we still don't know.
Appreciate 2
minn1913970.00
irunalot1515.50
      10-17-2022, 08:36 AM   #182
lens
Colonel
lens's Avatar
2067
Rep
2,638
Posts

Drives: 2018 340i xDrive
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Halifax NS, Canada

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB1 View Post
He certainly seems to be in the middle of it all.

Also funny reading good old Bernie Ecclestone speaking out, he things the punishment will be worse than then being stripped of the 21 season. I'd take his comments with a pinch of salt but I suspect he is just through fuel on the fire as he normally does.

Still no Red Bull accounts to look over, funny that double breach of UK accounting law and FIA cost cap breach.

I race this weekend it will be interesting to see what the teams and FIA have to say about it as the spotlight is away when there is no race, but its about to get a focus again announcement of an ABA maybe for the weekend or more damage to Red Bulls reputation as a team appearing to full on cheat by overspending. MMMmm we still don't know.
No accounts because they're still being audited and investigated by the FIA and auditors.


They're going over every cent spent to see where the overage is and what the FIA included when RBR didn't.
Appreciate 0
      10-17-2022, 09:17 AM   #183
TheBingoBalls
Brigadier General
TheBingoBalls's Avatar
Canada
3805
Rep
4,655
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Toronto, Ontario

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by G99M5 View Post
ah Adrian Newey has nothing to do with car development, he must be their building painter

https://insideracing.com/formula-1/1...-breach-report
This is a problem greater than RB being over the cap for whatever reason.

If this is true and Newey's compensation is not being counted because he's listed as a "contractor", teams are going to start being a lot more creative.

Good for Red Bull for making Newey and outside contractor and avoiding the cap if this is true. Let the FIA and everyone involved think long and hard about how the cap is calculated. From the 5% breach buffer and only top 3 salaries being calculated, this whole cap is stupid. Set a hard cap with all salaries included, what's the point of only including top 3?
Appreciate 1
minn1913970.00
      10-17-2022, 09:40 AM   #184
MontyB1
Lieutenant Colonel
1364
Rep
1,754
Posts

Drives: BMW X3
Join Date: Nov 2021
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaungo View Post
No accounts because they're still being audited and investigated by the FIA and auditors.


They're going over every cent spent to see where the overage is and what the FIA included when RBR didn't.
They are two different things though, EY their auditors should and need to have signed off accounts by the end of September. For RBR last year this was completed in Feb for the prior year.

This year nothing, unless that is they are still trying to game the system moving things around in the companies to 'meet' the cap when in reality it's pretty clear they haven't.

Still no word from the FIA, RBR but the rest of the grid are in full swing that the punishment of cheating needs to be severe and painful. We shall see what the teeth of the FIA look like.
Appreciate 1
minn1913970.00
      10-17-2022, 09:59 AM   #185
Fliplegend
Captain
Fliplegend's Avatar
United_States
1470
Rep
972
Posts

Drives: 2015 435ix F33
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: NH

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB1 View Post
We shall see what the teeth of the FIA look like.
We're talking about the same governing body that enabled and made excuses for Masi right? The same ones that made rule changes specifically to benefit high rake cars? The same ones who continue to race in countries with well known human rights violations?
__________________
15' 435i F33 Metallic Grey/Dakota Black/Contrast Blue | AWD | M Sport
15' 328i F30 Mineral White/Dakota Saddle Brown | AWD | Luxury Line
Appreciate 2
minn1913970.00
irunalot1515.50
      10-17-2022, 11:14 AM   #186
MontyB1
Lieutenant Colonel
1364
Rep
1,754
Posts

Drives: BMW X3
Join Date: Nov 2021
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fliplegend View Post
We're talking about the same governing body that enabled and made excuses for Masi right? The same ones that made rule changes specifically to benefit high rake cars? The same ones who continue to race in countries with well known human rights violations?
Yeah this is true, the same ones that take 2hrs to review something if its Ferrari or Merc but 2 minutes if its Red Bull, they AREN'T biased though, ohh no. Erm.....
Appreciate 1
irunalot1515.50
      10-17-2022, 11:20 AM   #187
MontyB1
Lieutenant Colonel
1364
Rep
1,754
Posts

Drives: BMW X3
Join Date: Nov 2021
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

And more evidence that the vultures are swirling!!

Red Bull cost cap overspend constitutes cheating and needs a sporting not monetary punishment Brown tells FIA
Appreciate 3
irunalot1515.50
Steeler2422.00
minn1913970.00
      10-17-2022, 11:30 AM   #188
lens
Colonel
lens's Avatar
2067
Rep
2,638
Posts

Drives: 2018 340i xDrive
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Halifax NS, Canada

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB1 View Post
Yeah this is true, the same ones that take 2hrs to review something if its Ferrari or Merc but 2 minutes if its Red Bull, they AREN'T biased though, ohh no. Erm.....
If they were biased, RBR would've won the last 8 years of WCC and WDC wouldn't they?


It takes two minutes to review things for Ferrari and Mercedes because they complain about the issue a race ago, so when the same thing happens to them, the FIA makes the decision faster because of their complaint.
Appreciate 0
      10-17-2022, 11:52 AM   #189
///M Power-Belgium
General
///M Power-Belgium's Avatar
Belgium
62740
Rep
24,511
Posts

Drives: ///M3-E92-DCT Silverstone II
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Budget cap ?

By HAM's dirty trick at Copse , this 2021 wreck costed Red Bull $1.8 Million !
Attached Images
 
__________________
"MAX VERSTAPPEN" IS THE 2021+2022+2023 F1 WORLD CHAMPION - #UnLeashTheLion

BPM DEV-Tune & DCT Software-Tune & Servotronic & coding ///Alpine HID Angeleyes ///Oem.exhaust mod.
Appreciate 2
DrFerry6722.50
M5Rick58879.50
      10-17-2022, 12:12 PM   #190
HeelToeShift
Captain
2001
Rep
993
Posts

Drives: Mine
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Here

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
Budget cap ?

By HAM's dirty trick at Copse , this 2021 wreck costed Red Bull $1.8 Million !
He’s def a dirty driver and it seems now that Rus is in a MB he too feels the need to play bumper cars. Guy went from likable to a self-righteous prick thinking he just deserves to win with a MB.

Last edited by HeelToeShift; 10-17-2022 at 06:38 PM..
Appreciate 3
      10-17-2022, 12:23 PM   #191
3798j
Lieutenant Colonel
3798j's Avatar
11167
Rep
1,776
Posts

Drives: E86 3.0si
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Susquehanna Valley

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
'08 Z4 3.0SI  [8.50]
'66 Triumph TR4A  [0.00]
'85 Corvette  [0.00]
'64 Corvette  [0.00]
'68 Triumph GT6  [0.00]
'55 Ford F100  [0.00]
'19 VW Golf "R ...  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
Budget cap ?

By HAM's dirty trick at Copse , this 2021 wreck costed Red Bull $1.8 Million !
Is this RBR's defense to the FIA for their exceeding the cost cap? I don't think it'll work.
Appreciate 3
minn1913970.00
Steeler2422.00
________4157.00
      10-17-2022, 12:32 PM   #192
///M Power-Belgium
General
///M Power-Belgium's Avatar
Belgium
62740
Rep
24,511
Posts

Drives: ///M3-E92-DCT Silverstone II
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeelToeShift View Post
He’s def a dirty driver and it seems now that Rus is in a MB he too feels the need to play bumper cars. Guy went from likable to an self-righteouse prick thinking he just deserves to win with a MB.
Sure .I mean ,$1.8 Million was a big chunk out of the Red Bull budget cap ...
A Honda PU replacement was required and MAX and got a grid penalty !

On the other hand : HAM just got a 10 sec. penalty and his car was repaired under the Red Flag and won the race .

And $1.8 Million was vaporized for Red Bull !
__________________
"MAX VERSTAPPEN" IS THE 2021+2022+2023 F1 WORLD CHAMPION - #UnLeashTheLion

BPM DEV-Tune & DCT Software-Tune & Servotronic & coding ///Alpine HID Angeleyes ///Oem.exhaust mod.
Appreciate 2
DrFerry6722.50
M5Rick58879.50
      10-17-2022, 12:38 PM   #193
minn19
Lieutenant General
minn19's Avatar
13970
Rep
10,061
Posts

Drives: 24 Z06, 23 CT4VBW, 22 PFinder
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Minnesota

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
Sure .I mean ,$1.8 Million was a big chunk out of the Red Bull budget cap ...
A Honda PU replacement was required and MAX and got a grid penalty !

On the other hand : HAM just got a 10 sec. penalty and his car was repaired under the Red Flag and won the race .

And $1.8 Million was vaporized for Red Bull !
Oh boo hoo.

Russel took out Bottas for a similar payout/total. So both teams had to deal with major accident costs. Yet MB and everyone else still figured it out………….
Appreciate 1
Steeler2422.00
      10-17-2022, 12:54 PM   #194
///M Power-Belgium
General
///M Power-Belgium's Avatar
Belgium
62740
Rep
24,511
Posts

Drives: ///M3-E92-DCT Silverstone II
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3798j View Post
Is this RBR's defense to the FIA for their exceeding the cost cap? I don't think it'll work.
It Isn't Red Bull defence . Just facts what was going on in the '21 season .
This thread is about the budget cap and the thread discussion is where the money was spent on ..

This one was for a Red Bull wreck replacement and that costed $1.8 Million for Red Bull .

A team's car was wrecked by the driver from another team , very likely intentional by a dirty trick ..

That $1.8 Million wasn't spent on RB18 upgrades , but to give MAX another car ...

MAX's car was 100% wrecked . So , Don't you think that MAX needed a complete new car to race with in the next race ?
That's why IMHO .The FIA should take that $1.8 Million into account as well ..
__________________
"MAX VERSTAPPEN" IS THE 2021+2022+2023 F1 WORLD CHAMPION - #UnLeashTheLion

BPM DEV-Tune & DCT Software-Tune & Servotronic & coding ///Alpine HID Angeleyes ///Oem.exhaust mod.
Appreciate 2
DrFerry6722.50
M5Rick58879.50
      10-17-2022, 01:22 PM   #195
E86Z4MC
Private
48
Rep
72
Posts

Drives: Z4M Coupe
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Ohio

iTrader: (0)

If red bull have circumvented paying for Adrian Newey's salary by calling him a contractor that doesn't work on car development, this truly is egregious. Either they drop the hammer on red bull, or risk all teams using a similar workaround.

Regardless of any minor overspend that was arguably done just by "meals", Adrian's salary is another $10 million right off the top given how critical he is to red bull. Plenty of co-employment discrepancies that will easily poke holes through any attempt to justify this.

Even what Zach Brown has mentioned in terms of corrective action I would say is nowhere near harsh enough if what is rumored about Newey is true.
Appreciate 1
minn1913970.00
      10-17-2022, 01:42 PM   #196
M2CS
First Lieutenant
M2CS's Avatar
1025
Rep
306
Posts

Drives: M2 CS
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Germany

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
It Isn't Red Bull defence . Just facts what was going on in the '21 season .
This thread is about the budget cap and the thread discussion is where the money was spent on ..

This one was for a Red Bull wreck replacement and that costed $1.8 Million for Red Bull .

A team's car was wrecked by the driver from another team , very likely intentional by a dirty trick ..

That $1.8 Million wasn't spent on RB18 upgrades , but to give MAX another car ...

MAX's car was 100% wrecked . So , Don't you think that MAX needed a complete new car to race with in the next race ?
That's why IMHO .The FIA should take that $1.8 Million into account as well ..
You cheer on Max's aggressive "never yield" driving style, but when it results in him crashing his car you cry foul. Max wasn't concerned about the $$ for car repairs when he turned in on HAM's Mercedes. The FIA does not need to take that $1.8 Million into account, Max and & Ham were racing hard... Max didn't want to yield... neither did Ham or the barrier.
Appreciate 2
minn1913970.00
Steeler2422.00
      10-17-2022, 02:04 PM   #197
///M Power-Belgium
General
///M Power-Belgium's Avatar
Belgium
62740
Rep
24,511
Posts

Drives: ///M3-E92-DCT Silverstone II
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M2CS View Post
You cheer on Max's aggressive "never yield" driving style, but when it results in him crashing his car you cry foul. Max wasn't concerned about the $$ for car repairs when he turned in on HAM's Mercedes. The FIA does not need to take that $1.8 Million into account, Max and & Ham were racing hard... Max didn't want to yield... neither did Ham or the barrier.
Negative !

MAX had the lead in the Copse turn . HAM had plenty of room on the inside .

Who got the 10 sec. FIA penalty ?
The 10 sec . penalty was for the one who was at fault . And that was HAM !

10 sec. for HAM and Mercedes was $1.8 Million for Red Bull and a grid penalty for MAX !
Give me a break...

__________________
"MAX VERSTAPPEN" IS THE 2021+2022+2023 F1 WORLD CHAMPION - #UnLeashTheLion

BPM DEV-Tune & DCT Software-Tune & Servotronic & coding ///Alpine HID Angeleyes ///Oem.exhaust mod.

Last edited by ///M Power-Belgium; 10-17-2022 at 02:10 PM..
Appreciate 2
DrFerry6722.50
M5Rick58879.50
      10-17-2022, 02:08 PM   #198
M2CS
First Lieutenant
M2CS's Avatar
1025
Rep
306
Posts

Drives: M2 CS
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Germany

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
Negative !

MAX had the lead in the Copse turn . HAM had plenty of room on the inside .

Who got the 10 sec. penalty from the FIA ?
The 10 sec . penalty was for the one who was at fault . And that was HAM !

10 sec. for HAM and Mercedes was $1.8 Million for Red Bull and a grid penalty for MAX !
Give me a break...
Ham got a slap on the wrist because he wasn't completely at fault. Moving on, the $1.8 million Redbull needed to spend to repair the car didn't give them freedom to breach the cost cap.
Appreciate 1
minn1913970.00
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:36 AM.




zpost
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST