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      05-29-2013, 09:57 PM   #45
Mayhem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wparente View Post
I find that the guys that think a Z4 is a chick car are muscle car types that think unless it's got a V8 in it and can't do anything other than a 1/4 mile time, it useless. They wouldn't know a decent handling, good looking car if it bit them in the ars. I bought mine because I like the way it looks even if I own a Harley and hang with the muscle car guys!
I spent over half my life in Muscle cars. Started out with two 1969 Mach I's and progressed to two Corvettes. I've rebuilt carburetors, engines, transmissions, and did my own wrenching until I finally had enough. I got a Z4 so I could have someone else do my grunt work for a change. LOL
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      05-30-2013, 02:43 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
Many cars carry this stigma... I have heard everything from chick car to a car for alternate lifestyles. Miata-- same thing. Even mini-Coopers to an extent. I've heard it before, I simply don't GAF.
I think that "stigma" is in fact a case of "haters gonna hate" LOL

learning to not GAF truly is the best way to handle it
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      05-31-2013, 10:41 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Asbjorn View Post
But you forgot
  • the electric-steering
  • the engine (the N54T was available in the 3-series at the same as the Z4),
  • the non-M DCT which was only later available in the 3-series and 1-seres.
  • the navigation system which has been updated over the years (the 09 model z4 does not have the same navi as the 06 3-series... also it folds away )
  • the folding hard-top was a big improvement over the leaking 3-series version
  • the adaptive suspension maybe? (again save for the M-cars)

So we could also argue that most of the stuff that matters was improved or new in the Z4. And it will also be the last car offered with the N54. I do not think that is a bad thing at all.

And btw with comparable options the M3 convertible is far more expensive than the Z4 35is, and the performance is almost the same. So this hardly explains anything. Because the M3 convertible is not as rare as the Z4 35i where I live.

I think it is a fair point that the Z4 is too expensive, and that you can get 300hp and 4 seats in a 1-series for much less. But let us not forget that even the soft-top 1-series convertible is heavier than a Z4. And compared to the roadster competition, the Z4 is indeed competitively priced, and offers very competitive technology and looks, even if it is "only" based on a 3-series. Except for the HUD, B&O hifi, and perhaps ventilated seats, I cannot think of many 5, 6 or 7-series features that I really wish we also had. I can think of a few M-features though (such as drilled brake disks, more customizable software, an electronic LSD, upgraded exhaust sound etc), but that is a different story...
  • Electric power steering - there's are good and bad between electric and hydraulic steering. If you have never driven hydraulic steering then then electric steering is ok to you but if you have driven it, electric steering seems unresponsive and you dont get the same feedback as hydraulic steering. Even M5 owners doesn't like their electric power steering. EPS is very old technology. It has been on s2000 since 2000.
  • N54T Engine - it came out in 2006 (335i had it), we got it in 2009 (3 years later)
  • DCT - yes, available at the same time but it is the same DCT in M3. The software is different though. M3 came out in 2008.
  • iDrive - it has been on 3 series since 2006. in 2008, they got an updated one. Z4 only got iDrive in 2009 (same iDrive that 3 series got a year before).

Right now 3 series have more advanced technology than our LCI Z4 (2014). We just now get clear headlight rings. 3 series have already gone to a newer phase with their squared out headlight rings. I guess we will get that and among other things like

HUD
Lane Departure Warning w/ Forward Collision Warning
Speed Limit Info
Active Blind Spot Detection
Side and Top View Cameras
Rear View Camera
Variable Steering

Maybe we will get it in 2015 or 2016... maybe...
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      05-31-2013, 11:19 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoa View Post
  • Electric power steering - there's are good and bad between electric and hydraulic steering. If you have never driven hydraulic steering then then electric steering is ok to you but if you have driven it, electric steering seems unresponsive and you dont get the same feedback as hydraulic steering. Even M5 owners doesn't like their electric power steering. EPS is very old technology. It has been on s2000 since 2000.
  • N54T Engine - it came out in 2006 (335i had it), we got it in 2009 (3 years later)
  • DCT - yes, available at the same time but it is the same DCT in M3. The software is different though. M3 came out in 2008.
  • iDrive - it has been on 3 series since 2006. in 2008, they got an updated one. Z4 only got iDrive in 2009 (same iDrive that 3 series got a year before).

Right now 3 series have more advanced technology than our LCI Z4 (2014). We just now get clear headlight rings. 3 series have already gone to a newer phase with their squared out headlight rings. I guess we will get that and among other things like

HUD
Lane Departure Warning w/ Forward Collision Warning
Speed Limit Info
Active Blind Spot Detection
Side and Top View Cameras
Rear View Camera
Variable Steering

Maybe we will get it in 2015 or 2016... maybe...
The only thing I'd want from that list is the Rear View Camera (which is retrofittable using aftermarket parts anyway if I really wanted it) and maybe Side + Top View Cameras. On such a small car, they're not all that useful anyway.

I feel like Lane Departure + Speed Limit + Active Blind Spot and all those driver assists just ruins the fun of driving, and not something I would want on the Z4. Example, on our Merc, we have all of those. Trying to do a spirited drive is a task because it will always vibrate my wheel telling me I am too close to the lines, or that I am speeding, or that I should stop tailgating (even though I'm not even that close, it would start to apply the brakes for me!) Again, cool idea, and that's what I thought when I ordered my Merc, but not something I would get, especially not on a sports car that is meant to be driven.
I don't have much of an opinion on the Variable Steering, but again, we aren't driving a Ultra Luxury S-Class.. I don't miss not having it.
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      05-31-2013, 11:31 AM   #49
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IMHO, that's the wrong kind of tech to put in the Z (unless it is trying to be an SL competitor next time, in which case it should have turbo V8)
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      05-31-2013, 11:59 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoa View Post
Electric power steering - there's are good and bad between electric and hydraulic steering. If you have never driven hydraulic steering then then electric steering is ok to you but if you have driven it, electric steering seems unresponsive and you dont get the same feedback as hydraulic steering. Even M5 owners doesn't like their electric power steering. EPS is very old technology. It has been on s2000 since 2000.
I did not say if it was good or bad, I just said the Z4 got this new BMW technology before the 3-series. Including the drive mode selector which alters it. I owned a 330d with hydraulic power steering before the Z4 and before that I also owned a car with no power steering at all. I believe I am very aware what the steering feedback discussion is all about, but I was not trying to start one here. The new M5 has hydraulic power steering I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoa View Post
N54T Engine - it came out in 2006 (335i had it), we got it in 2009 (3 years later)
Technically speaking the N54T is actually the 340hp version of the N54. There is no 306hp version of the N54T. And why is the N54T important then, if it was mainly a software-enabled boost upgrade? Because it helped the N54 beat the much newer and more powerful M50d engine at last year's engine of the year awards. And because then we can say the 1-series M coupe got its engine from a Z4 (even the radiator system was not the same).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoa View Post
DCT - yes, available at the same time but it is the same DCT in M3. The software is different though. M3 came out in 2008.
Totally agree, and remember, even the new 3-series will not get this technology (yes yes, save for the new M3/M4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoa View Post
iDrive - it has been on 3 series since 2006. in 2008, they got an updated one. Z4 only got iDrive in 2009 (same iDrive that 3 series got a year before).
Ah so your point is that it was not offered with the previous Z4. Fair point!

Last edited by Asbjorn; 05-31-2013 at 12:10 PM.
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      05-31-2013, 12:36 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asbjorn View Post
The new M5 has hydraulic power steering I think.
New M5 have EPS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asbjorn View Post
Technically speaking the N54T is actually the 340hp version of the N54. There is no 306hp version of the N54T. And why is the N54T important then, if it was mainly a software-enabled boost upgrade? Because it helped the N54 beat the much newer and more powerful M50d engine at last year's engine of the year awards. And because then we can say the 1-series M coupe got its engine from a Z4 (and not the other way around).
It's still the same engine... are you telling me z4 35i and z4 35is have different engine or its the same engine with a software tune?

Comparing a gasoline engine and diesel engine is like apples and oranges. why not compare it to electric car as well?
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      05-31-2013, 01:50 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoa View Post
New M5 have EPS
The M5 has a vehicle-speed-sensitive variable-assist (Servotronic), variable-ratio power steering according to BMWUSA. The owners manual does not mention anything about the steering type. What source did you use to get your information?

Here is a quote from a drive review by Bimmerpost: "Unlike many other models of late, the F10 M5 still uses that good ole hydraulic steering rack, and it felt so good being back to this setup." Source http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=731680

and realoem agrees, the hardware is indeed hydraulic:

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/partgrp.d...98&hg=32&fg=10

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoa View Post
It's still the same engine... are you telling me z4 35i and z4 35is have different engine or its the same engine with a software tune?
It simply depends on where you draw the line I think

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoa View Post
Comparing a gasoline engine and diesel engine is like apples and oranges. why not compare it to electric car as well?
Not my idea. Please look here:

http://www.ukipme.com/engineoftheyear/25_3.php#2

The M50d diesel finished 2nd just behind the N54T. The N55 was awarded fifth place behind the Boxter engine and the regular twin turbo diesel.

Without the extra power I do not think the N54 would have won again last year.
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      05-31-2013, 03:15 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asbjorn View Post
The M5 has a vehicle-speed-sensitive variable-assist (Servotronic), variable-ratio power steering according to BMWUSA.
I read somewhere that said it had eps. I guess they are wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asbjorn View Post
Not my idea. Please look here:

http://www.ukipme.com/engineoftheyear/25_3.php#2

The M50d diesel finished 2nd just behind the N54T. The N55 was awarded fifth place behind the Boxter engine and the regular twin turbo diesel.

Without the extra power I do not think the N54 would have won again last year.
those people just test any engine and throw it into the category that it fits the engine size. Lamborghini 6.5-litre V12 Aventador in the same category as M5 & M6 lol those poeple ran out of category to put them in.

Z4 and 335 get to be in 1st & 5th just because of an overboost tune? haha what a joke! To be fair to all other automakers, I think BMW should only be allowed to enter one engine (base on block code). Other automakers can come out with a slightly better tune and enter two engines? it makes no sense. all parts are exactly the same for both engine except the tune. even the computer box probably have the same part number
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      05-31-2013, 04:10 PM   #54
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funny how different an engine can be with not just tune but physical add ons. I haven't heard of a stock 1M going into limp mode with its radiators + fan upgrade and transmission case with extra cooling while the regular N54 cars all attend the limp mode party

Just goes to show what BMW market research says about Z series owners that we don't get any of the performance gear even in the 35is model

EDIT even the standard 135 gets "better" brake calipers and the 335 sedan family hauler has larger brake rotors
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      06-01-2013, 01:20 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoa View Post
Z4 and 335 get to be in 1st & 5th just because of an overboost tune?
No no it is the N55 that is in 5th place, not the de-tuned N54. Before there was an N54 with over-boost, it still beat the N55 at this particular competition.
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      06-01-2013, 01:00 PM   #56
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Forget the performance gear, just make this pig lighter! :P
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      06-01-2013, 07:10 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by keepittrill View Post
Forget the performance gear, just make this pig lighter! :P
And make it so various parts don't rattle/squeak
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