New 2009 2010 BMW Z4 - ZPOST
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   New 2009 2010 BMW Z4 - ZPOST > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > General Automotive (non-BMW) Talk + Photos/Videos

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      12-01-2023, 09:30 AM   #111
///d
Captain
///d's Avatar
United_States
1898
Rep
619
Posts

Drives: F15 35d M Sport
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Minne-snow-ta

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by chassis View Post
Transportation fuel cost as a percent of personal income in the U.S. has declined over the years. It’s becoming a nothing burger.
Wut?

This shows otherwise. It does state that between 2019 and 2021 travel expenses dropped, but thats because of COVID, and theres a lot of folks that have maintained that stay home lifestyle since COVID.

"In 2022, transportation was the second largest household expenditure behind housing, accounting for 15% of average household spending."

" In 2022, the household making less than $25,000 (the lowest income quintile) spent 30% of their after-tax income on transportation while those in the highest fifth by household income spent 12% (Figure 1)."

https://www.bts.dot.gov/data-spotlig...-it-affordable

Judging by your stable, and like many of here, you are probably comfortable financially and travel costs are likely not a concern, but most of the country is not comfortable financially and fuel costs are absolutely a concern. I can't even keep track of how many times I've had friends/family have to cancel plans because they need to save the gas money for something else, or how many times I've had to pay for a Soldiers tank of fuel so they can get to drill (and then receive a paycheck that barely covers what it costs them to go to drill).

It is very far from a "nothing burger".
__________________
F15 35d M Sport (SOLD ) | F30 328i | 2020 Tacoma TRD Pro

My Diesel Information Thread | My Wheels, Tires, and Fitment Thread | My Teardrop Camper Build | My F15 Suspension Lift Thread
Appreciate 0
      12-01-2023, 09:59 AM   #112
Alfisti
Brigadier General
6896
Rep
3,245
Posts

Drives: 2008 Saab 9-3 Combi
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Toronto, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Americans complaining about fuel costs does my head in. A) your fuel is dirt cheap on a world scale and B) you drive the most ridiculously large vehicles.

8 seater SUV are everywhere, trucks are everywhere, it's insane how big your vehicles are.
Appreciate 2
Llarry21304.00
Cos270610.00
      12-01-2023, 10:25 AM   #113
Clark_Kent
Lieutenant Colonel
Clark_Kent's Avatar
2302
Rep
1,916
Posts

Drives: Retired
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Atlanta, GA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
Americans complaining about fuel costs does my head in. A) your fuel is dirt cheap on a world scale and B) you drive the most ridiculously large vehicles.

8 seater SUV are everywhere, trucks are everywhere, it's insane how big your vehicles are.
It's a little more complex than that. It is dirt cheap relative to other countries, but Americans pay more for fuel than other countries because we drive more, a lot more.
Appreciate 0
      12-01-2023, 10:35 AM   #114
Alfisti
Brigadier General
6896
Rep
3,245
Posts

Drives: 2008 Saab 9-3 Combi
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Toronto, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark_Kent View Post
It's a little more complex than that. It is dirt cheap relative to other countries, but Americans pay more for fuel than other countries because we drive more, a lot more.
You also own massive vehicles with massive engines. Those 8 seater behemoth SUV with V8's do my head in, get a minivan.
Appreciate 0
      12-01-2023, 10:53 AM   #115
///MPhatic
The Seeker
///MPhatic's Avatar
15271
Rep
3,798
Posts

Drives: OG M2 • Exige
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: USA

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2018 BMW M2  [8.75]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
Americans complaining about fuel costs does my head in. A) your fuel is dirt cheap on a world scale and B) you drive the most ridiculously large vehicles.

8 seater SUV are everywhere, trucks are everywhere, it's insane how big your vehicles are.
Agreed, but I'm certainly not among them.

My Boys III by Andrew Thompson, on Flickr
Appreciate 4
lakefront630.00
chris7197584.50
Cos270610.00
      12-01-2023, 12:08 PM   #116
dreamingat30fps
Colonel
United_States
5925
Rep
2,011
Posts

Drives: Miata, Cayenne, Model 3, F350
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: South Florida & NC

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///d View Post
Wut?

This shows otherwise. It does state that between 2019 and 2021 travel expenses dropped, but thats because of COVID, and theres a lot of folks that have maintained that stay home lifestyle since COVID.

"In 2022, transportation was the second largest household expenditure behind housing, accounting for 15% of average household spending."

" In 2022, the household making less than $25,000 (the lowest income quintile) spent 30% of their after-tax income on transportation while those in the highest fifth by household income spent 12% (Figure 1)."

https://www.bts.dot.gov/data-spotlig...-it-affordable

Judging by your stable, and like many of here, you are probably comfortable financially and travel costs are likely not a concern, but most of the country is not comfortable financially and fuel costs are absolutely a concern. I can't even keep track of how many times I've had friends/family have to cancel plans because they need to save the gas money for something else, or how many times I've had to pay for a Soldiers tank of fuel so they can get to drill (and then receive a paycheck that barely covers what it costs them to go to drill).

It is very far from a "nothing burger".
They are counting the cost of the vehicle itself into transportation expense... dunno if they also count insurance, maintenance etc. However that is not a fair view of FUEL costs. Cost of vehicles has definitely been going up, especially in the last 3 years or so.

Also I'm sure it depends a lot on the individual situation. In my case we both work from home and typically don't go more than a couple of miles around the house on any given day. We do occasionally drive 50-70 miles each way to see family, but it's maybe once a month or so. Plus we have the EV which we drive 90% of the time when we are here. So for me the fuel economy of my ICE vehicles doesn't really matter. Also I can afford to pay it.

On the other hand I have a friend who drives around all day for work and puts a shit ton of miles every year AND he lives in CA where gas is like a million dollars a gallon. So for him it may matter more.
Appreciate 1
chassis7940.50
      12-01-2023, 12:12 PM   #117
dreamingat30fps
Colonel
United_States
5925
Rep
2,011
Posts

Drives: Miata, Cayenne, Model 3, F350
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: South Florida & NC

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
You also own massive vehicles with massive engines. Those 8 seater behemoth SUV with V8's do my head in, get a minivan.
Minivans are lame though...

Appreciate 1
Alfisti6895.50
      12-01-2023, 12:51 PM   #118
lakefront
Captain
630
Rep
786
Posts

Drives: Whatever's in the garage
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: SE Wisconsin

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
You also own massive vehicles with massive engines. Those 8 seater behemoth SUV with V8's do my head in, get a minivan.
Meanwhile, Canadians all driving around in little fuel sipping micro cars....
Appreciate 1
chris7197584.50
      12-01-2023, 01:42 PM   #119
///d
Captain
///d's Avatar
United_States
1898
Rep
619
Posts

Drives: F15 35d M Sport
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Minne-snow-ta

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
You also own massive vehicles with massive engines. Those 8 seater behemoth SUV with V8's do my head in, get a minivan.
This is something I think is ridiculous. Muricans seem to think they need a full size truck for anything that involves transport, towing, or anything other than asphalt road surfaces.

Pull a 4,000lb trailer with an SUV and everyone looks at you like you're insane and wreckless.

And the really stupid thing is, most new trucks you buy now have a bed that you can't even put a sheet of plywood in without it hanging off the end. Hook up a boat and the suspension sags so bad you're looking at the trees when you drive. MOST truck owners never use their truck for truck things.
__________________
F15 35d M Sport (SOLD ) | F30 328i | 2020 Tacoma TRD Pro

My Diesel Information Thread | My Wheels, Tires, and Fitment Thread | My Teardrop Camper Build | My F15 Suspension Lift Thread
Appreciate 0
      12-01-2023, 01:50 PM   #120
freakystyly
Colonel
3549
Rep
2,010
Posts

Drives: F22 B58 6MT
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Ontario

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lakefront View Post
Meanwhile, Canadians all driving around in little fuel sipping micro cars....
It's true.. we have too many useless sized vehicles on the roads too. And they're usually the ones who complain first about gas prices. Our car markets follow yours tho. Small cars aren't available anymore.
Appreciate 0
      12-01-2023, 01:54 PM   #121
c1pher
Primo Generalissimo
c1pher's Avatar
United_States
5018
Rep
4,182
Posts

Drives: All of them
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: DC area

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
Americans complaining about fuel costs does my head in. A) your fuel is dirt cheap on a world scale and B) you drive the most ridiculously large vehicles.

8 seater SUV are everywhere, trucks are everywhere, it's insane how big your vehicles are.
I generally see the same vehicles in Canada and when they are visiting down here in the USA....especially those huge RVs.
Appreciate 0
      12-01-2023, 01:57 PM   #122
dreamingat30fps
Colonel
United_States
5925
Rep
2,011
Posts

Drives: Miata, Cayenne, Model 3, F350
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: South Florida & NC

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by c1pher View Post
I generally see the same vehicles in Canada and when they are visiting down here in the USA....especially those huge RVs.
Can't blame them there... after all if it doesn't have a toilet it's not road worthy!
Appreciate 1
c1pher5018.00
      12-01-2023, 02:00 PM   #123
Alfisti
Brigadier General
6896
Rep
3,245
Posts

Drives: 2008 Saab 9-3 Combi
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Toronto, Canada

iTrader: (0)

USA/Canada, same shit different smell. I'm comparing it to the rest of the world but in saying that your gas is way cheaper and your fleet is still much larger. Biggest selling car here for eons was the Civic.
Appreciate 0
      12-01-2023, 02:08 PM   #124
XutvJet
Major General
5929
Rep
5,520
Posts

Drives: 2011 Cayman Base, 2016 M235
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Kansas City

iTrader: (-1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
You also own massive vehicles with massive engines. Those 8 seater behemoth SUV with V8's do my head in, get a minivan.
The US is pretty unique compared to most countries. One or two of our states combined is the size of many countries in this world. We drive WAY MORE than most countries (usually 2X more) due to large distances between cities, our work, and destination areas. We have have a big subset of the population involved in construction, agriculture, and related jobs where folks depend on their trucks for a living.

I agree, there are many people in the US that drive big trucks and SUVs, but don't really use them or if they do, it's like a few times a year otherwise the truck is like a car. But just don't pick on those with big vehicles. My wife drives a 2020 4Runner and that's not an overly large SUV and it gets 17-19mpg max. Toyota sells a ton of 4Runners in Canada. Just saying.

Don't be so mad because we have cheap fuel. Also, don't forget the Canadian dollar is 27% higher than the US dollar so when you constantly bring Canadian costs in your posts, it is not an apples or oranges comparison. Your housing is a bit more expensive, but your food, utility, insurance, and healthcare costs are lower. Your perspective is also a bit skewed given you live in one of the most expensive cities in Canada. With all things considered, the cost of living differences, on average, in Canada and the US are not much different.
__________________
The forest was shrinking, but the Trees kept voting for the Axe, for the Axe was clever and convinced the Trees that because his handle was made of wood, he was one of them.
Appreciate 1
c1pher5018.00
      12-01-2023, 02:39 PM   #125
c1pher
Primo Generalissimo
c1pher's Avatar
United_States
5018
Rep
4,182
Posts

Drives: All of them
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: DC area

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
True, when I lived in Stuttgart, I could be in France in less than an hour, Zurich in about two hours and other surrounding countries within four hours drive. I can drive for four hours in Virginia and still not be out of state.

Also our population density is much lower so mass transit doesn’t seem to work well here. Large towns in Europe are much closer to one another.
Appreciate 1
chassis7940.50
      12-01-2023, 02:42 PM   #126
c1pher
Primo Generalissimo
c1pher's Avatar
United_States
5018
Rep
4,182
Posts

Drives: All of them
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: DC area

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Also true that my truck is more of a specialty machine I use for going to Home Depot or towing toys. I can’t do that with my other cars.
Appreciate 0
      12-01-2023, 03:31 PM   #127
Alfisti
Brigadier General
6896
Rep
3,245
Posts

Drives: 2008 Saab 9-3 Combi
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Toronto, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
The US is pretty unique compared to most countries. One or two of our states combined is the size of many countries in this world. We drive WAY MORE than most countries (usually 2X more) due to large distances between cities, our work, and destination areas. We have have a big subset of the population involved in construction, agriculture, and related jobs where folks depend on their trucks for a living.

I agree, there are many people in the US that drive big trucks and SUVs, but don't really use them or if they do, it's like a few times a year otherwise the truck is like a car. But just don't pick on those with big vehicles. My wife drives a 2020 4Runner and that's not an overly large SUV and it gets 17-19mpg max. Toyota sells a ton of 4Runners in Canada. Just saying.

Don't be so mad because we have cheap fuel. Also, don't forget the Canadian dollar is 27% higher than the US dollar so when you constantly bring Canadian costs in your posts, it is not an apples or oranges comparison. Your housing is a bit more expensive, but your food, utility, insurance, and healthcare costs are lower. Your perspective is also a bit skewed given you live in one of the most expensive cities in Canada. With all things considered, the cost of living differences, on average, in Canada and the US are not much different.
Let's be honest, a good portion of uber SUV are used to drop the kids at school. It's size for the sake of size. Canada is more sparsely populated with even greater distances and whilst we too have a big vehicle fleet, it is still considerably smaller than that in the USA.

Cost of living wise, it's hard to say. Gainfully employed in the USA with a good health insurance plan? Then you're miles in front of us here. Professional salaries are almost 1:1 before exchange. We have offices in both countries and if a PM costs $70K a yr in Canada, it's the same in the USA but in USD. So you're making the same money but paying less for most things and taxed way less. I ran some numbers and my wife and I lost about 59% of our earnings to taxation of one form or another last year.

Now, if you're not on a professional salary in the USA or you don't have you're health covered, it's a world of hurt, granted.

I'm not "mad" at your fuel costs, jealous, sure but not mad. What I don't understand is a family of four with a Yukon complaining about the cost of fuel.
Appreciate 0
      12-01-2023, 04:18 PM   #128
RM7
Brigadier General
RM7's Avatar
3024
Rep
3,628
Posts

Drives: Camaro SS 1LE
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Alaska

iTrader: (0)

You gotta have a giant 90K truck to tow your 5 side by sides, 3 boats and 2RVs. Then you complain about the cost of gas and McDonalds.
Appreciate 0
      12-01-2023, 05:20 PM   #129
Alfisti
Brigadier General
6896
Rep
3,245
Posts

Drives: 2008 Saab 9-3 Combi
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Toronto, Canada

iTrader: (0)

If you do actually tow all that shit then that's fine, it's the family of 4 with 2 kids in Jersey that does my head in.
Appreciate 0
      12-01-2023, 09:27 PM   #130
chassis
Colonel
chassis's Avatar
7941
Rep
2,488
Posts

Drives: 9Y0 Cayenne S
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Einbahnstraße

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///d View Post
Wut?
Systemically lower. Flat real fuel price, better fuel economy and higher incomes. And flat or slightly declining vehicle miles traveled.
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 0
      12-02-2023, 07:09 AM   #131
Socal_R8
Major
Socal_R8's Avatar
2541
Rep
1,389
Posts

Drives: 981CS/428/is250/JLU Rubicon
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Center of the Universe

iTrader: (1)

funny how it doesn't take much for these threads to go off the rails....

Appreciate 2
Cos270610.00
      12-02-2023, 09:37 AM   #132
baege
Lieutenant Colonel
1404
Rep
1,640
Posts

Drives: 2022 Cayman GTS 4.0 6MT
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Toronto, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
YEah even my 997 C2S wears me thin on the admittedly absolute SHITE roads we have near me. When i drive half an hr out of town and hit smooth pavement i tis a TOTALLY different car.
I feel ya brotha, gta is a wasteland for car lovers
Appreciate 1
Alfisti6895.50
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:23 PM.




zpost
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST