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      12-01-2023, 08:30 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by chassis View Post
Transportation fuel cost as a percent of personal income in the U.S. has declined over the years. It’s becoming a nothing burger.
Wut?

This shows otherwise. It does state that between 2019 and 2021 travel expenses dropped, but thats because of COVID, and theres a lot of folks that have maintained that stay home lifestyle since COVID.

"In 2022, transportation was the second largest household expenditure behind housing, accounting for 15% of average household spending."

" In 2022, the household making less than $25,000 (the lowest income quintile) spent 30% of their after-tax income on transportation while those in the highest fifth by household income spent 12% (Figure 1)."

https://www.bts.dot.gov/data-spotlig...-it-affordable

Judging by your stable, and like many of here, you are probably comfortable financially and travel costs are likely not a concern, but most of the country is not comfortable financially and fuel costs are absolutely a concern. I can't even keep track of how many times I've had friends/family have to cancel plans because they need to save the gas money for something else, or how many times I've had to pay for a Soldiers tank of fuel so they can get to drill (and then receive a paycheck that barely covers what it costs them to go to drill).

It is very far from a "nothing burger".
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      12-01-2023, 08:59 AM   #112
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Americans complaining about fuel costs does my head in. A) your fuel is dirt cheap on a world scale and B) you drive the most ridiculously large vehicles.

8 seater SUV are everywhere, trucks are everywhere, it's insane how big your vehicles are.
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      12-01-2023, 09:25 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
Americans complaining about fuel costs does my head in. A) your fuel is dirt cheap on a world scale and B) you drive the most ridiculously large vehicles.

8 seater SUV are everywhere, trucks are everywhere, it's insane how big your vehicles are.
It's a little more complex than that. It is dirt cheap relative to other countries, but Americans pay more for fuel than other countries because we drive more, a lot more.
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      12-01-2023, 09:35 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by Clark_Kent View Post
It's a little more complex than that. It is dirt cheap relative to other countries, but Americans pay more for fuel than other countries because we drive more, a lot more.
You also own massive vehicles with massive engines. Those 8 seater behemoth SUV with V8's do my head in, get a minivan.
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      12-01-2023, 09:53 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
Americans complaining about fuel costs does my head in. A) your fuel is dirt cheap on a world scale and B) you drive the most ridiculously large vehicles.

8 seater SUV are everywhere, trucks are everywhere, it's insane how big your vehicles are.
Agreed, but I'm certainly not among them.

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      12-01-2023, 11:08 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///d View Post
Wut?

This shows otherwise. It does state that between 2019 and 2021 travel expenses dropped, but thats because of COVID, and theres a lot of folks that have maintained that stay home lifestyle since COVID.

"In 2022, transportation was the second largest household expenditure behind housing, accounting for 15% of average household spending."

" In 2022, the household making less than $25,000 (the lowest income quintile) spent 30% of their after-tax income on transportation while those in the highest fifth by household income spent 12% (Figure 1)."

https://www.bts.dot.gov/data-spotlig...-it-affordable

Judging by your stable, and like many of here, you are probably comfortable financially and travel costs are likely not a concern, but most of the country is not comfortable financially and fuel costs are absolutely a concern. I can't even keep track of how many times I've had friends/family have to cancel plans because they need to save the gas money for something else, or how many times I've had to pay for a Soldiers tank of fuel so they can get to drill (and then receive a paycheck that barely covers what it costs them to go to drill).

It is very far from a "nothing burger".
They are counting the cost of the vehicle itself into transportation expense... dunno if they also count insurance, maintenance etc. However that is not a fair view of FUEL costs. Cost of vehicles has definitely been going up, especially in the last 3 years or so.

Also I'm sure it depends a lot on the individual situation. In my case we both work from home and typically don't go more than a couple of miles around the house on any given day. We do occasionally drive 50-70 miles each way to see family, but it's maybe once a month or so. Plus we have the EV which we drive 90% of the time when we are here. So for me the fuel economy of my ICE vehicles doesn't really matter. Also I can afford to pay it.

On the other hand I have a friend who drives around all day for work and puts a shit ton of miles every year AND he lives in CA where gas is like a million dollars a gallon. So for him it may matter more.
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      12-01-2023, 11:12 AM   #117
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You also own massive vehicles with massive engines. Those 8 seater behemoth SUV with V8's do my head in, get a minivan.
Minivans are lame though...

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      12-01-2023, 11:51 AM   #118
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You also own massive vehicles with massive engines. Those 8 seater behemoth SUV with V8's do my head in, get a minivan.
Meanwhile, Canadians all driving around in little fuel sipping micro cars....
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      12-01-2023, 12:42 PM   #119
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You also own massive vehicles with massive engines. Those 8 seater behemoth SUV with V8's do my head in, get a minivan.
This is something I think is ridiculous. Muricans seem to think they need a full size truck for anything that involves transport, towing, or anything other than asphalt road surfaces.

Pull a 4,000lb trailer with an SUV and everyone looks at you like you're insane and wreckless.

And the really stupid thing is, most new trucks you buy now have a bed that you can't even put a sheet of plywood in without it hanging off the end. Hook up a boat and the suspension sags so bad you're looking at the trees when you drive. MOST truck owners never use their truck for truck things.
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      12-01-2023, 12:50 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by lakefront View Post
Meanwhile, Canadians all driving around in little fuel sipping micro cars....
It's true.. we have too many useless sized vehicles on the roads too. And they're usually the ones who complain first about gas prices. Our car markets follow yours tho. Small cars aren't available anymore.
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      12-01-2023, 12:54 PM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
Americans complaining about fuel costs does my head in. A) your fuel is dirt cheap on a world scale and B) you drive the most ridiculously large vehicles.

8 seater SUV are everywhere, trucks are everywhere, it's insane how big your vehicles are.
I generally see the same vehicles in Canada and when they are visiting down here in the USA....especially those huge RVs.
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      12-01-2023, 12:57 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by c1pher View Post
I generally see the same vehicles in Canada and when they are visiting down here in the USA....especially those huge RVs.
Can't blame them there... after all if it doesn't have a toilet it's not road worthy!
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      12-01-2023, 01:00 PM   #123
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USA/Canada, same shit different smell. I'm comparing it to the rest of the world but in saying that your gas is way cheaper and your fleet is still much larger. Biggest selling car here for eons was the Civic.
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      12-01-2023, 01:08 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
You also own massive vehicles with massive engines. Those 8 seater behemoth SUV with V8's do my head in, get a minivan.
The US is pretty unique compared to most countries. One or two of our states combined is the size of many countries in this world. We drive WAY MORE than most countries (usually 2X more) due to large distances between cities, our work, and destination areas. We have have a big subset of the population involved in construction, agriculture, and related jobs where folks depend on their trucks for a living.

I agree, there are many people in the US that drive big trucks and SUVs, but don't really use them or if they do, it's like a few times a year otherwise the truck is like a car. But just don't pick on those with big vehicles. My wife drives a 2020 4Runner and that's not an overly large SUV and it gets 17-19mpg max. Toyota sells a ton of 4Runners in Canada. Just saying.

Don't be so mad because we have cheap fuel. Also, don't forget the Canadian dollar is 27% higher than the US dollar so when you constantly bring Canadian costs in your posts, it is not an apples or oranges comparison. Your housing is a bit more expensive, but your food, utility, insurance, and healthcare costs are lower. Your perspective is also a bit skewed given you live in one of the most expensive cities in Canada. With all things considered, the cost of living differences, on average, in Canada and the US are not much different.
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      12-01-2023, 01:39 PM   #125
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True, when I lived in Stuttgart, I could be in France in less than an hour, Zurich in about two hours and other surrounding countries within four hours drive. I can drive for four hours in Virginia and still not be out of state.

Also our population density is much lower so mass transit doesn’t seem to work well here. Large towns in Europe are much closer to one another.
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      12-01-2023, 01:42 PM   #126
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Also true that my truck is more of a specialty machine I use for going to Home Depot or towing toys. I can’t do that with my other cars.
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      12-01-2023, 02:31 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
The US is pretty unique compared to most countries. One or two of our states combined is the size of many countries in this world. We drive WAY MORE than most countries (usually 2X more) due to large distances between cities, our work, and destination areas. We have have a big subset of the population involved in construction, agriculture, and related jobs where folks depend on their trucks for a living.

I agree, there are many people in the US that drive big trucks and SUVs, but don't really use them or if they do, it's like a few times a year otherwise the truck is like a car. But just don't pick on those with big vehicles. My wife drives a 2020 4Runner and that's not an overly large SUV and it gets 17-19mpg max. Toyota sells a ton of 4Runners in Canada. Just saying.

Don't be so mad because we have cheap fuel. Also, don't forget the Canadian dollar is 27% higher than the US dollar so when you constantly bring Canadian costs in your posts, it is not an apples or oranges comparison. Your housing is a bit more expensive, but your food, utility, insurance, and healthcare costs are lower. Your perspective is also a bit skewed given you live in one of the most expensive cities in Canada. With all things considered, the cost of living differences, on average, in Canada and the US are not much different.
Let's be honest, a good portion of uber SUV are used to drop the kids at school. It's size for the sake of size. Canada is more sparsely populated with even greater distances and whilst we too have a big vehicle fleet, it is still considerably smaller than that in the USA.

Cost of living wise, it's hard to say. Gainfully employed in the USA with a good health insurance plan? Then you're miles in front of us here. Professional salaries are almost 1:1 before exchange. We have offices in both countries and if a PM costs $70K a yr in Canada, it's the same in the USA but in USD. So you're making the same money but paying less for most things and taxed way less. I ran some numbers and my wife and I lost about 59% of our earnings to taxation of one form or another last year.

Now, if you're not on a professional salary in the USA or you don't have you're health covered, it's a world of hurt, granted.

I'm not "mad" at your fuel costs, jealous, sure but not mad. What I don't understand is a family of four with a Yukon complaining about the cost of fuel.
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      12-01-2023, 03:18 PM   #128
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You gotta have a giant 90K truck to tow your 5 side by sides, 3 boats and 2RVs. Then you complain about the cost of gas and McDonalds.
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      12-01-2023, 04:20 PM   #129
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If you do actually tow all that shit then that's fine, it's the family of 4 with 2 kids in Jersey that does my head in.
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      12-01-2023, 08:27 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by ///d View Post
Wut?
Systemically lower. Flat real fuel price, better fuel economy and higher incomes. And flat or slightly declining vehicle miles traveled.
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      12-02-2023, 06:09 AM   #131
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funny how it doesn't take much for these threads to go off the rails....

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      12-02-2023, 08:37 AM   #132
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YEah even my 997 C2S wears me thin on the admittedly absolute SHITE roads we have near me. When i drive half an hr out of town and hit smooth pavement i tis a TOTALLY different car.
I feel ya brotha, gta is a wasteland for car lovers
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