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      11-14-2018, 12:12 AM   #23
bimmer456
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Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
Considering 5 vehicles driving out of Paradise, CA have dead bodies in them, I bet they would have found it useful.

Which is exactly what the link is about...and I even stated I thought like you until I read about this actually working in California right this minute.

I doubt any of those filters have been changed.

It also appears that you are not reading links, just posting.

Musk credited Google co-founder Larry Page for turning him onto the idea and with the Model X in 2015, Tesla introduced a brand new HEPA air filter system.

The automaker claims that it is about 10 times larger than a normal car filter (pictured above) and it is “100 times more effective than premium automotive filters” as it removes “at least 99.97% of fine particulate matter and gaseous pollutants, as well as bacteria, viruses, pollen and mold spores.”


Notice difference in size between the filter in left and right hand, which you would have seen if you looked at link.
If the car caught fire I'm not sure the occupants of a tesla would have survived if all the air outside was burned up and only carbon dioxide was left. Not sure if the windows likely would have melted in the heat as all the burned vehicles are without tires and windows and are hollowed out shells, not sure a Tesla would have faired better.
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      11-14-2018, 12:25 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by bimmer456 View Post
If the car caught fire I'm not sure the occupants of a tesla would have survived if all the air outside was burned up and only carbon dioxide was left. Not sure if the windows likely would have melted in the heat as all the burned vehicles are without tires and windows and are hollowed out shells, not sure a Tesla would have faired better.
Car was moving and was not on fire.

Smoke from the fire was in the compartment which forced the occupants out of vehicle where their almost stationary position allowed their clothes to catch fire.
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      11-14-2018, 06:52 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post

Regardless, just because a filter meets a certain requirement for filtering, that’s only one piece of the entire SYSTEM.
The degree of filtration is set by the rated standard of the Hepa filter.
You know, that 99.97% from your link, that is a ASTM D2986 spec.
The bosch filter meets the same spec. And as for filtration capacity (litres per minute or ft³/min), I've shown you the graph where the tesla test results are compared to the 2010 mazda stock filter result. There isnt much more to the entire system. The 'System' is a filter and a fan. So there's a filtering degree (in this case ASTM D2986) and a flow rate of air, where you can see in the graph that what the tesla system does in 2min, the system in the old mazda does in 3 min. Thats it.

But I suspect you don't have a technical occupation. You're not a techie.
You dont seem to process this data the way I process it.

Quote:
Put a $75 HEPA unit in your den and use it for a week and then put a $500 High Quality HEPA unit in your den and you can tell night and day differences.
Both have a HEPA rated filter...
Thats because 'HEPA' itself is a loose claim. It doesn't say anything. HEPA is NOT a 'rating'.
It just means "High Efficiency Particulate Air", nothing more nothing less.
Thats why there are independant set specs for it (or ratings how you call it). Thats what you have to look out for. So there is the ASTM D2986 (thats a US spec; that 99.97%, the one both Musk and Bosch claim to) but for example in europe they have a much more elaborate system (EN 1822:2009) where they divide it into 8 seperate classes ranging from E10 (>85%, so much less than the US ASTM D2986 spec) to U17 (> 99.999995%, way more than the US ASTM D2986 spec). (those filters with really really high filtration degree sometimes also are called 'ULPA')

Thats how these specs work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
So you stay with you 5 inch or so HEPA filter and blindly believe that the system works as well the Tesla Feature.
I never said it works as well as the Tesla feature. What the tesla feature does in 2 minutes, a normal car can apparantly do in 3 minutes. Just look at the graph.
My point is that Musk claims that that is '100 times better', and you seem to agree.
So either Musk has, with his physics degree, the mathematical insight of a 4 year old, or he is making up all kinds of numbers in order to sell his stuff and get into the media. I gave you links where specialists debunk the things he says on this, and still you seem to fall for it.
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Last edited by GuidoK; 11-14-2018 at 07:13 AM.
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      11-14-2018, 10:57 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
The degree of filtration is set by the rated standard of the Hepa filter.
You know, that 99.97% from your link, that is a ASTM D2986 spec.
The bosch filter meets the same spec. And as for filtration capacity (litres per minute or ft³/min), I've shown you the graph where the tesla test results are compared to the 2010 mazda stock filter result. There isnt much more to the entire system. The 'System' is a filter and a fan. So there's a filtering degree (in this case ASTM D2986) and a flow rate of air, where you can see in the graph that what the tesla system does in 2min, the system in the old mazda does in 3 min. Thats it.

But I suspect you don't have a technical occupation. You're not a techie.
You dont seem to process this data the way I process it.


Thats because 'HEPA' itself is a loose claim. It doesn't say anything. HEPA is NOT a 'rating'.
It just means "High Efficiency Particulate Air", nothing more nothing less.
Thats why there are independant set specs for it (or ratings how you call it). Thats what you have to look out for. So there is the ASTM D2986 (thats a US spec; that 99.97%, the one both Musk and Bosch claim to) but for example in europe they have a much more elaborate system (EN 1822:2009) where they divide it into 8 seperate classes ranging from E10 (>85%, so much less than the US ASTM D2986 spec) to U17 (> 99.999995%, way more than the US ASTM D2986 spec). (those filters with really really high filtration degree sometimes also are called 'ULPA')

Thats how these specs work.


I never said it works as well as the Tesla feature. What the tesla feature does in 2 minutes, a normal car can apparantly do in 3 minutes. Just look at the graph.
My point is that Musk claims that that is '100 times better', and you seem to agree.
So either Musk has, with his physics degree, the mathematical insight of a 4 year old, or he is making up all kinds of numbers in order to sell his stuff and get into the media. I gave you links where specialists debunk the things he says on this, and still you seem to fall for it.
Comical

You seem to be the one without the tech knowledge. You assume all graphs show the same thing...time is the only factor.

What you fail to comprehend is the amount of filtering needed.

On a normal commute perhaps a Mazada might perform the same. But when you have the amount of particulates in the air in the middle of a massive wildlife, the situation is far different.

As anyone who changes their HVAC Filter knows, the more dust and debris in the air, the faster the filter clogs. The more the filter clogs, the less efficient the filtering. No degree needed. Only common sense.

If you think that a ~5” filter will stay unclogged as long and working as efficiently as the massive filter in the photo above that is too big to even fit in a Model 3 or Model S, you are the dreamer.

No different than how often needs to change air filters in a vehicle if you live in an urban environment or drive daily on dirt roads.

Regardless, 1st hand accounts from the California Wildfires are available on the web.

Bottom line....if stuck in a wildfire less than an hour from my house and where the air quality has been miserable for months because of multiple fires, I’d choose the Tesla option.

I’ll let you use the Mazda option which most likely is about as effective as your convertible.

Let’s see who does better.
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      11-14-2018, 02:45 PM   #27
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If you're such a fanboy, denying verifyable data and specialist' views that debunk Musks' claims, what are you still doing here?
Why dont you drive a tesla? And mingle with the Musk adorers?
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      11-14-2018, 03:05 PM   #28
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LOL. Nothing triggers a mouth-breather quite like a Tesla discussion.
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      11-14-2018, 03:08 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
If you're such a fanboy, denying verifyable data and specialist' views that debunk Musks' claims, what are you still doing here?
Why dont you drive a tesla? And mingle with the Musk adorers?
I happen to have an open mind and applaud innovation, unlike you.
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      11-14-2018, 03:38 PM   #30
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You sure have an open mind.... to Musk's marketing talk.
You are indeed the type of person he has in mind. You fit the profile I described earlier.
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      11-15-2018, 07:47 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
Comical

You seem to be the one without the tech knowledge. You assume all graphs show the same thing...time is the only factor.

What you fail to comprehend is the amount of filtering needed.

On a normal commute perhaps a Mazada might perform the same. But when you have the amount of particulates in the air in the middle of a massive wildlife, the situation is far different.

As anyone who changes their HVAC Filter knows, the more dust and debris in the air, the faster the filter clogs. The more the filter clogs, the less efficient the filtering. No degree needed. Only common sense.

If you think that a ~5” filter will stay unclogged as long and working as efficiently as the massive filter in the photo above that is too big to even fit in a Model 3 or Model S, you are the dreamer.

No different than how often needs to change air filters in a vehicle if you live in an urban environment or drive daily on dirt roads.

Regardless, 1st hand accounts from the California Wildfires are available on the web.

Bottom line....if stuck in a wildfire less than an hour from my house and where the air quality has been miserable for months because of multiple fires, I’d choose the Tesla option.

I’ll let you use the Mazda option which most likely is about as effective as your convertible.

Let’s see who does better.
I'd just get the hell out of the way of the fire and not need a Nuke/Chem/Bio proof Tesla...

But that's just me.
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      11-15-2018, 11:25 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
Comical

You seem to be the one without the tech knowledge. You assume all graphs show the same thing...time is the only factor.

What you fail to comprehend is the amount of filtering needed.

On a normal commute perhaps a Mazada might perform the same. But when you have the amount of particulates in the air in the middle of a massive wildlife, the situation is far different.

As anyone who changes their HVAC Filter knows, the more dust and debris in the air, the faster the filter clogs. The more the filter clogs, the less efficient the filtering. No degree needed. Only common sense.

If you think that a ~5” filter will stay unclogged as long and working as efficiently as the massive filter in the photo above that is too big to even fit in a Model 3 or Model S, you are the dreamer.

No different than how often needs to change air filters in a vehicle if you live in an urban environment or drive daily on dirt roads.

Regardless, 1st hand accounts from the California Wildfires are available on the web.

Bottom line....if stuck in a wildfire less than an hour from my house and where the air quality has been miserable for months because of multiple fires, I’d choose the Tesla option.

I’ll let you use the Mazda option which most likely is about as effective as your convertible.

Let’s see who does better.
I'd just get the hell out of the way of the fire and not need a Nuke/Chem/Bio proof Tesla...

But that's just me.
Obviously that's what the people killed in California were trying to do....despite your remark.
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      11-15-2018, 12:56 PM   #33
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Obviously that's what the people killed in California were trying to do....despite your remark.
If one has to rely on the ability of their car to prevent smoke inhillation, then I'd say they waited too late to leave. I live on a river that is prone to flash floods. I act diligently and move myself, or my assets away from the river when flooding is predicted.
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      11-15-2018, 01:11 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
Obviously that's what the people killed in California were trying to do....despite your remark.
If one has to rely on the ability of their car to prevent smoke inhillation, then I'd say they waited too late to leave. I live on a river that is prone to flash floods. I act diligently and move myself, or my assets away from the river when flooding is predicted.
Again, you seem to ignore the news.

There was literally no warning and that is why close to 60 are dead and hundreds more missing....which is why it is the deadliest fire in California History.

There are things in life one does not get the benefit of advanced notice.
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      11-15-2018, 02:29 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
Again, you seem to ignore the news.

There was literally no warning and that is why close to 60 are dead and hundreds more missing....which is why it is the deadliest fire in California History.

There are things in life one does not get the benefit of advanced notice.
I live basically within the Shenandoah Nation Park and own 40 acres of forest, so I'm no stranger to the dangers of wild fires (and why all my roofs are steel). About 15 years ago we had one within sight of the house, across the street about a mile and a half away, so I get the nervous urge to stay put and protect one's property. But being that area of California is quite dry and has high susceptibility to winds that can cause drastic and rapid changes to wild fires, prudence would dictate to leave the area early and hope for the best.
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      11-15-2018, 02:36 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
I live basically within the Shenandoah Nation Park and own 40 acres of forest, so I'm no stranger to the dangers of wild fires (and why all my roofs are steel). About 15 years ago we had one within sight of the house, across the street about a mile and a half away, so I get the nervous urge to stay put and protect one's property. But being that area of California is quite dry and has high susceptibility to winds that can cause drastic and rapid changes to wild fires, prudence would dictate to leave the area early and hope for the best.
Again, there was literally no advanced notice.

You cannot leave early when there was no advanced notice.

Read the news or watch it. That’s why the deaths are so high.

That’s like saying leave before the Earthquake happens.
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