New 2009 2010 BMW Z4 - ZPOST
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   New 2009 2010 BMW Z4 - ZPOST > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > General Automotive (non-BMW) Talk + Photos/Videos

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      03-22-2023, 02:17 PM   #1695
RM7
Brigadier General
RM7's Avatar
2645
Rep
3,213
Posts

Drives: Camaro SS 1LE
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Alaska

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox View Post
I'm not sure how you're comparing my company paying for my health insurance as part of my compensation package to tax payers subsidizing cars for people.

I'm not trying to be a dick, but how did you come to this conclusion that the two were equivalent?
Because you are a member of this society and you have a responsibility as a member. If you want to only pay for your own stuff, you need to buy your own island and pave your own roads, set up your own health care, build your EMS services, utilities, etc. There are lots of other social responsibilities. I just used that example to show that the people who are all about "I only wanna pay for my own stuff" are more than happy to spread that around when it directly benefits them, such as with health care, insurance, etc. In other words, you are ok with subsidizing stuff. No, society can't operate al la carte. But one day, we'll finally get those poor people to pay their fair share, right?
__________________
Current: 2018 Camaro SS 1LE, 2022 Kia Stinger. Former: BMW 428i Gran Coupe.
Appreciate 0
      03-22-2023, 02:18 PM   #1696
OkieSnuffBox
Major
1791
Rep
1,011
Posts

Drives: '13 135i
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: OKC, OK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by zx10guy View Post
Just because someone buys a new car or a car with a warranty doesn't mean they're wealthy. Leases, being able to roll over negative equity into the next car loan, sub prime auto loans, and loan terms that now go out to 7 years have made new cars accessible to many people; even those that have no business buying a new car.
I think you don't understand the general public.

I've pointed this out before, many here have a skewed impression of how others live. I don't make that much but just my income income is $20k more than then national household income. That doesn't include my fiance's income.

And many of you make a significant sum more than that. Many of you guys have multiple times of money in cars as I have in my house.
Appreciate 1
Cos270574.00
      03-22-2023, 02:22 PM   #1697
OkieSnuffBox
Major
1791
Rep
1,011
Posts

Drives: '13 135i
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: OKC, OK

iTrader: (0)

I don't say that trying to sound jealous, I just know a bunch of you made different choices, and that has enriched you more than me.
Appreciate 0
      03-22-2023, 02:40 PM   #1698
zx10guy
Brigadier General
4643
Rep
3,139
Posts

Drives: 2013 135i
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: DC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox View Post
I think you don't understand the general public.

I've pointed this out before, many here have a skewed impression of how others live. I don't make that much but just my income income is $20k more than then national household income. That doesn't include my fiance's income.

And many of you make a significant sum more than that. Many of you guys have multiple times of money in cars as I have in my house.
I do understand the general public. The keeping up with the Jones' meme used to describe a broad segment of the US population wasn't by accident.

So I don't understand your reply and why my post was quoted. As I said, pretty much anyone can buy a new car or a newer car with a warranty due to all the different creative financing options out there. Whether it's financially prudent for one to buy a product that takes an immediate depreciation hit is another. Or trading off the financial hit to gain a better sense of security against mechanical breakdown. That's up to the person as we're all adults and we're all free to do whatever.

I myself didn't buy a "nice" car till much later in my career/life. I've always drove econoboxes even though I could afford a car many times more than what I've been purchasing. I also end to buy new but I hold on to my vehicles for a long time so any depreciation discussion is moot.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lups View Post
We might not be in an agreement on Trump, but I'll be the first penis chaser here to say I'll rather take it up in the ass than to argue with you on this.
Appreciate 1
Patton2502862.50
      03-22-2023, 02:46 PM   #1699
dreamingat30fps
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
4437
Rep
1,789
Posts

Drives: Miata, Cayenne, Model 3, F350
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: South Florida & NC

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RM7 View Post
Because you are a member of this society and you have a responsibility as a member. If you want to only pay for your own stuff, you need to buy your own island and pave your own roads, set up your own health care, build your EMS services, utilities, etc. There are lots of other social responsibilities. I just used that example to show that the people who are all about "I only wanna pay for my own stuff" are more than happy to spread that around when it directly benefits them, such as with health care, insurance, etc. In other words, you are ok with subsidizing stuff. No, society can't operate al la carte. But one day, we'll finally get those poor people to pay their fair share, right?
Just because I don't want to pay for someone's $80k EV doesn't mean I don't want to pay for the roads to be paved.
Appreciate 2
Patton2502862.50
      03-22-2023, 04:08 PM   #1700
Murf the Surf
Second Lieutenant
Murf the Surf's Avatar
12495
Rep
295
Posts

Drives: Porsche 993
Join Date: Mar 2022
Location: Dog Lake, South Frontenac, Ontario Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps View Post
Just because I don't want to pay for someone's $80k EV doesn't mean I don't want to pay for the roads to be paved.
This, I'm ok with paying taxes to cover the cost of healthcare, public safety, infrastructure, public transportation and education. But why should I subsidize someone else's personal transportation.
Appreciate 4
KRS_SN9532.50
M5Rick45493.00
      03-23-2023, 08:09 AM   #1701
freakystyly
Major
2009
Rep
1,482
Posts

Drives: F22 B58 6MT
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Ontario

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Murf the Surf View Post
This, I'm ok with paying taxes to cover the cost of healthcare, public safety, infrastructure, public transportation and education. But why should I subsidize someone else's personal transportation.
Can't mention infrastructure since they don't pay road taxes (yet). In spite of generally being larger and heavier.
Appreciate 2
Cos270574.00
      03-23-2023, 08:16 AM   #1702
M5Rick
Lieutenant General
M5Rick's Avatar
45493
Rep
15,228
Posts

Drives: M5 F10 DCT Gunmetal
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Southern England

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
The ex P M here that told us he's stopping fuel car sales in 2030 instead of 2040 is himself being investigated for lying to his parliamentary house party followers then.

Last edited by M5Rick; 03-24-2023 at 02:27 PM..
Appreciate 1
DrFerry5511.50
      03-23-2023, 02:43 PM   #1703
M3WC
Colonel
2843
Rep
2,843
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: ...location...location

iTrader: (0)

Ford will split out the EV business officially Q1 this quarter, named Ford Model E. Today they gave everyone a glimpse into their EV financials since 2021.


Ford expects to lose $3 billion on their EV division in 2023.

They lost $2.1 billion in 2022 and $900 million in 2021.

Goal is to be in green by 2026.



https://www.thedetroitbureau.com/202...ness-for-2023/
Appreciate 0
      03-24-2023, 01:45 PM   #1704
RM7
Brigadier General
RM7's Avatar
2645
Rep
3,213
Posts

Drives: Camaro SS 1LE
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Alaska

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Murf the Surf View Post
This, I'm ok with paying taxes to cover the cost of healthcare, public safety, infrastructure, public transportation and education. But why should I subsidize someone else's personal transportation.
But you already do, with the subsidizing of the oil industry. How comfortable would you be with $6/gal gas or more?
__________________
Current: 2018 Camaro SS 1LE, 2022 Kia Stinger. Former: BMW 428i Gran Coupe.
Appreciate 0
      03-24-2023, 02:29 PM   #1705
M5Rick
Lieutenant General
M5Rick's Avatar
45493
Rep
15,228
Posts

Drives: M5 F10 DCT Gunmetal
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Southern England

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Do you have a system in the US where taxpayers pay for registered disabled peoples new cars?
Appreciate 1
DrFerry5511.50
      03-24-2023, 02:29 PM   #1706
chad86tsi
Captain
chad86tsi's Avatar
1210
Rep
676
Posts

Drives: 2019 BMW M760i P60 Greyblack
Join Date: Apr 2022
Location: Portland metro

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RM7 View Post
But you already do, with the subsidizing of the oil industry. How comfortable would you be with $6/gal gas or more?
If we are going down that road, power that is fed into evís is also subsidized, some very substantially. Far more than gasoline.

Subsidizing the cars on top of that is like an added insult. Subsidizing a product that consumes highly subsidized energy.
Appreciate 3
Cos270574.00
Efthreeoh13031.00
      03-25-2023, 05:13 PM   #1707
chad86tsi
Captain
chad86tsi's Avatar
1210
Rep
676
Posts

Drives: 2019 BMW M760i P60 Greyblack
Join Date: Apr 2022
Location: Portland metro

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Humorous is "subsidies" are just the Government not taxing the living shit out of you (or a corporation/industry) like they really want to do. It's all just either...
In many cases, it's just taking money out on one persons pocket, and putting into another's pocket. Depending on the year, some 50% of all citizens pay zero federal tax, yet we all get to use federal subsidized resources/benefits. There are people that literally don't pay their share.

I'm Ok with indigent people not paying, but 50% are not indigent. All that federal money comes from somewhere, and it seems it's not all of us.
Appreciate 2
      03-26-2023, 03:29 AM   #1708
chassis
Lieutenant Colonel
chassis's Avatar
5054
Rep
1,947
Posts

Drives: BMW G01 X3, 9Y0 Cayenne S
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: linker Fahrbahn

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by M5Rick View Post
Do you have a system in the US where taxpayers pay for registered disabled peoples new cars?
Not directly, to my knowledge. I have never knowingly paid specifically for a registered or "certified" disabled person's car.

I did a quick search in my state and it doesn't seem like a program as you described exists. The US does not have many programs that are comparable to those in the UK or Europe. That is a thread unto itself...!
Appreciate 0
      03-26-2023, 10:22 AM   #1709
M5Rick
Lieutenant General
M5Rick's Avatar
45493
Rep
15,228
Posts

Drives: M5 F10 DCT Gunmetal
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Southern England

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by chassis View Post
Not directly, to my knowledge. I have never knowingly paid specifically for a registered or "certified" disabled person's car.

I did a quick search in my state and it doesn't seem like a program as you described exists. The US does not have many programs that are comparable to those in the UK or Europe. That is a thread unto itself...!
It's taxes which don't figure to a lot of people. Over here disability benefits are vastly increased for those that have a new car or EV free on lease on Motability with insurance and servicing thrown in paid for in full by taxes. Agreed it is a thread unto itself maybe but falls into the category of subsidising which was being discussed earlier.
Appreciate 1
DrFerry5511.50
      03-26-2023, 12:11 PM   #1710
M5Rick
Lieutenant General
M5Rick's Avatar
45493
Rep
15,228
Posts

Drives: M5 F10 DCT Gunmetal
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Southern England

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
With reference to the war on drivers of older fuel cars from the Mayor of London attributable partly from EV's in the capitol, hard working people who depend on their older cars to make a living being already taxed to the hilt who can't afford new EV's are crying enough and forming protests.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/ca..._home#comments
Appreciate 3
Cos270574.00
DrFerry5511.50
      03-27-2023, 11:24 AM   #1711
OkieSnuffBox
Major
1791
Rep
1,011
Posts

Drives: '13 135i
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: OKC, OK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RM7 View Post
Because you are a member of this society and you have a responsibility as a member. If you want to only pay for your own stuff, you need to buy your own island and pave your own roads, set up your own health care, build your EMS services, utilities, etc. There are lots of other social responsibilities. I just used that example to show that the people who are all about "I only wanna pay for my own stuff" are more than happy to spread that around when it directly benefits them, such as with health care, insurance, etc. In other words, you are ok with subsidizing stuff. No, society can't operate al la carte. But one day, we'll finally get those poor people to pay their fair share, right?
That was a pretty big leap.

People don't need an expensive EV subsidized.

I'm fine with my tax dollars paying for essential services, roads, schools, libraries, health insurance (especially this one because "preventative maintenance" care shown to be far cheaper than waiting for an issue to develop and then treating it which puts an even larger burden on the system as a whole, etc.

I think prisons should actually be reformatory and punitive. We know this is the case when you look at recidivism rates.
Appreciate 2
Cos270574.00
      03-27-2023, 11:25 PM   #1712
g21
Colonel
g21's Avatar
2106
Rep
2,683
Posts

Drives: M340i M550i LeafEV WRX Sienna
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: Australasia

iTrader: (0)

To the original question,

Yes! But so far none meet expectations
Appreciate 1
      03-28-2023, 10:08 AM   #1713
OkieSnuffBox
Major
1791
Rep
1,011
Posts

Drives: '13 135i
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: OKC, OK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Humorous is "subsidies" are just the Government not taxing the living shit out of you (or a corporation/industry) like they really want to do. It's all just either...
I don't know if I'm misunderstanding what you're getting at.

But the literal definition of a subsidy is:

"a sum of money granted by the government or a public body to assist an industry or business so that the price of a commodity or service may remain low or competitive."
Appreciate 0
      03-28-2023, 10:39 AM   #1714
Murf the Surf
Second Lieutenant
Murf the Surf's Avatar
12495
Rep
295
Posts

Drives: Porsche 993
Join Date: Mar 2022
Location: Dog Lake, South Frontenac, Ontario Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Where does the Govenment get its money...?
You beat me to it.
Appreciate 0
      03-28-2023, 10:56 AM   #1715
G35POPPEDMYCHERRY
Brigadier General
G35POPPEDMYCHERRY's Avatar
No_Country
4388
Rep
3,810
Posts

Drives: F80
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Philadelphia

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by chad86tsi View Post
In many cases, it's just taking money out on one persons pocket, and putting into another's pocket. Depending on the year, some 50% of all citizens pay zero federal tax, yet we all get to use federal subsidized resources/benefits. There are people that literally don't pay their share.

I'm Ok with indigent people not paying, but 50% are not indigent. All that federal money comes from somewhere, and it seems it's not all of us.
Appreciate 1
chad86tsi1210.00
      03-28-2023, 11:00 AM   #1716
G35POPPEDMYCHERRY
Brigadier General
G35POPPEDMYCHERRY's Avatar
No_Country
4388
Rep
3,810
Posts

Drives: F80
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Philadelphia

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Where does the Govenment get its money...?
don't waste your breath


people think the government shits gold and doesn't rob us blind

its a moral argument never supported by logic or dollars
Appreciate 4
Patton2502862.50
KRS_SN9532.50
TboneS54711.00
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:14 AM.




zpost
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST