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      08-10-2020, 04:31 AM   #1
Soul_Glo
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Why are some vehicles from an automaker more reliable than others?

You can have two cars built on the same chassis/platform using the same engine but one is deemed more reliable than the other.

Does it come down to where the car was made?
Where parts were sourced from?

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      08-10-2020, 08:58 AM   #2
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For starters there is pretty much only one optimal configuration for any shared platform, with all others have various compromises.

A second is the designed usage. Take something like the Camry platform. A Camry is naturally going to have higher reliability than something like a heavier, taller, etc vehicle such as the Highlander. Also in cases like this there are some variants such as AWD. This alone decreases the reliability.

Next, vehicles of different price ranges can be built on the same platforms. The lower end models will generally have cheaper parts used in some areas of the vehcle.

For engines, like a platform there is one ideal usage. Using the same engine in say a passenger car and an SUV can result in very different levels of reliability. Additionally there can be variants of the same engine. Take BMW for example where there are different versions of the B58. In general a higher HP version is inherently going to have lower reliability than a lower HP version.

And then yes, where a car is made and where the components are made also can play a large role.
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      08-10-2020, 09:44 AM   #3
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@Soul_Glo do you have examples, or particular models in mind?
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      08-10-2020, 09:58 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chassis View Post
@Soul_Glo do you have examples, or particular models in mind?
The VW Polo (sub-compact) which won't be coming to the US. Apparently it is more reliable than the VW Rabbit (Golf). Both available with same engines. Possibly the same chassis. Got me to thinking.

The above response before yours pretty much hits the nail on the head.
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      08-10-2020, 10:23 AM   #5
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i would add complexity. As you move up a model or add options you add additional equipment and that means more items to possibly fail. I would also add whether it is a new model or an existing model. Consumer Reports says that most cars are least reliable in the first year of a model's production before they have worked out the kinks.

Finally, one needs to be careful with stats like JD Powers initial quality. there are initial problems and there are initial problems. An engine or transmission that fails is in a different ballpark from a front grill that doesn't close.
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      08-10-2020, 10:52 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveinArizona View Post
i would add complexity. As you move up a model or add options you add additional equipment and that means more items to possibly fail. I would also add whether it is a new model or an existing model. Consumer Reports says that most cars are least reliable in the first year of a model's production before they have worked out the kinks.

Finally, one needs to be careful with stats like JD Powers initial quality. there are initial problems and there are initial problems. An engine or transmission that fails is in a different ballpark from a front grill that doesn't close.
I think a while ago, we passed the complexity line where reliability cannot be expected down the road. The more complex the cars and the more performance they are squeezing out, the worse this gets generally. There are exceptions, but I think this headed down the wrong road a few years back and now there are new cars that you basically can't hold on to for more than a couple years, otherwise you are risking huge repair costs and issues...
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      08-10-2020, 10:56 AM   #7
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I have not had any issue with my F48, F36 or my current F32. (fingers crossed)

The most troublesome vehicle I've owned was the newly redesigned Jeep Compass 4x4 Limited. Electronic center screen reboot at random, instrument panel doesn't know when to dim, 4x4 system making groaning noises. Strangely enough I had no issue with it's Italian cousin the Fiat 500X 4x4.
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      08-10-2020, 11:05 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GenXer View Post
I have not had any issue with my F48, F36 or my current F32. (fingers crossed)

The most troublesome vehicle I've owned was the newly redesigned Jeep Compass 4x4 Limited. Electronic center screen reboot at random, instrument panel doesn't know when to dim, 4x4 system making groaning noises. Strangely enough I had no issue with it's Italian cousin the Fiat 500X 4x4.
That’s because Chrysler is perfectly capable of effing up other people’s work

You can get unlucky with any of them. But seriously, FCA or whoever owns them now are the worst reliability of the Detroit big 3.
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      08-10-2020, 11:27 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GenXer View Post
I have not had any issue with my F48, F36 or my current F32. (fingers crossed)

The most troublesome vehicle I've owned was the newly redesigned Jeep Compass 4x4 Limited. Electronic center screen reboot at random, instrument panel doesn't know when to dim, 4x4 system making groaning noises. Strangely enough I had no issue with it's Italian cousin the Fiat 500X 4x4.
Automotive complexity has several parts (pun intended): mechanical (design, quality of parts) + intended usage (as another forum member previously stated) + electrical (wiring, quality of shielding, connectors) + electronic (sensors, heat protection) .... and now in the age of software - more software in every car.

This recent article from Consumer Reports says it all

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-...gine-problems/

"The problem: A software error can disable the engine fuel injectors. If that happens, the engine may not start or, if the car is in motion, the engine may stall.

The fix: A remedy has not yet been determined. Once it has, dealers will update the car’s software at no charge to owners."

The "a remedy has not yet been determined" is a concern. Humans write software. Human ought to determine fairly quickly if the specifications are incorrect (which means software should be updated) or specifications are correct and a mistake was made while writing it.

Chevy Malibu had a very large recall in 2012. From Wikipedia:

"On September 21, 2012. General Motors recalled 473,841 vehicles involving the Chevrolet Malibu, Pontiac G6 and Saturn Aura from model years 2007 through 2010 equipped with four-speed automatic transmissions. The problem is a condition that could make cars roll when in park. The recall affected 426,240 in the United States, 40,029 in Canada and 7,572 in other markets"

Two years later in 2014, Jeep Grand Cherokee owners began to complain that the cars rolled while in park mode.

While FCA and GM are different manufacturers, the parts supply chain is more difficult to trace for the average car owner.

These problems simply point to a very simple conclusion: quality is a function of intent and execution by human beings.

One of our former neighbors was involved in a terrible accident in her X5. She walked away and bought another X5 with N55 engine. Replacing OEM N55 plastic charge pipe with one made by Evolution Racewerks did not seem to be a big deal after the accident.
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      08-10-2020, 11:45 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soul_Glo View Post
The VW Polo (sub-compact) which won't be coming to the US. Apparently it is more reliable than the VW Rabbit (Golf). Both available with same engines. Possibly the same chassis. Got me to thinking.

The above response before yours pretty much hits the nail on the head.
Soul_Glo The Polo is assembled in Germany, the Golf is assembled in Mexico. That is the largest source of difference. Component sourcing will be different between the Polo and Golf for some identical parts, because they will be made in either a different factory of the same component supplier, or they will supplied by a different supplier.

Other reasons given in other posts also apply. Consumer relative expectations are different in different markets, this affects what consumers read about so-called reliability or quality.
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      08-10-2020, 12:00 PM   #11
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There are a few books and research papers that deal with this subject.

Almost yearly scholarly research papers ranks automobile manufacturing plants ( foundry, machining, assembly ) Auto manufacturers are just as interested in the research - I think the detailed conclusions are only sold/shared to manufacturers exclusively.

Widely accessible books that either skim or detail the subject: The Toyota Way, Notes From Toyota-Land, Lean Thinking, The Machine That Changed the World - The Story of Lean Production. The latter book was seminal and at the time was described as in the possession of all the auto CEO's.
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