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      10-29-2023, 06:57 AM   #221
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More kids with crayons on the design team? What are they (design team) thinking? BMW branded Kia or Honda? They really need to get their heads out of the sand and the let's do something different just to be different mentality! If it isn't broke, don't fix it... Simple!
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      10-29-2023, 10:08 AM   #222
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More kids with crayons on the design team? What are they (design team) thinking? BMW branded Kia or Honda? They really need to get their heads out of the sand and the let's do something different just to be different mentality! If it isn't broke, don't fix it... Simple!
It’ll sell well exactly for what it is
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      10-30-2023, 04:57 PM   #223
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I owned a 2018 X2 for five years. It was my daily driver, complementing an E46 M3, which I drove for enjoyment. I bought the X2 because I wanted a comfortable and economical daily driver for an hour long commute in heavy traffic in a city with the highest gas prices in North America. The X2 served that purpose much better than the M3. I specifically did not want an X1 because I liked the hatchback style of the X2, which made the vehicle shorter and lower than an X1, while it still had enough space for four adults in reasonable comfort. Had I not bought the X2, I might have bought a Golf R, although it was smaller than I preferred. I had a lot of problems with the X2, so I decided to unload it coinciding with the end of the warranty. I traded the X2 in for an M2C and I sold the E46 M3.

I really dislike the new X2, both the design and the size. I'm very disappointed in the design of recent BMWs. I think they are some of the worst looking vehicles on the market (e.g., XM). There is very little coherence between the models and even within a specific model, a lot of the new designs are a horrible combination of overly busy creases and features like fake vents and fake diffusers. The back end is by far the worst view of the car. The taillights are horrible. They don't look like any other BMW. The fake diffuser is also horrible. The back end reminds me of an Aztec. A low-end vehicle with only 300 HP doesn't need quad exhaust pipes.

Coincidently, my M2C had to go in for some service and I was given a new X1 as a courtesy car. It has grown quite a bit compared to the previous generation X1, which I also drove quite a few times. It's not that much smaller than an X3, which isn't that much smaller than an X5. IMO, there should be more size differential between the models, not less.

IMO, BMW has really lost its way when it comes to design and also the M division. BMW considers the XM to be the essence of the M division. IMO, this reflects that BMW is trying to make the M division something for everyone, which dilutes its original purpose.
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      10-30-2023, 08:45 PM   #224
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I like most of the design. Yeah it doesnt 'fit the rest of the lineup', but the X2 was kind of the oddball anyways. The tail lights are definitely weird but not a deal breaker for me. Ill just get some vinyl to fill in the gap
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      10-30-2023, 09:51 PM   #225
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I like most of the design. Yeah it doesnt 'fit the rest of the lineup', but the X2 was kind of the oddball anyways. The tail lights are definitely weird but not a deal breaker for me. Ill just get some vinyl to fill in the gap
The “Coupe” SUVs have always been the oddballs. I have an X4 M40i and love it. My wife talked me off the ledge from trading it in and getting two X2s (M35 and 28i).

this probably is the future design language for Coupe SUVs
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      10-31-2023, 08:39 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by FCBayernFTW View Post
The “Coupe” SUVs have always been the oddballs. I have an X4 M40i and love it. My wife talked me off the ledge from trading it in and getting two X2s (M35 and 28i).

this probably is the future design language for Coupe SUVs
Yeah next year that will be my option. A new X2 m35 or a certified X4 M40. Im single with no family but do a lot of golf and bike travel so need to see which one will work size wize.
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      10-31-2023, 10:18 AM   #227
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Originally Posted by FCBayernFTW View Post
The “Coupe” SUVs have always been the oddballs. I have an X4 M40i and love it. My wife talked me off the ledge from trading it in and getting two X2s (M35 and 28i).

this probably is the future design language for Coupe SUVs
I haven't driven a new X4 M40i, but I did drive one in 2018. Agreed, they are nice vehicles.

Good on your wife walking you back from getting two X2s. An X2 M35 and something else would be a better way to go.

IMO, BMW's design department is lost in the wilderness. I didn't think it was possible to design such horrible looking vehicles. The XM is a monstrosity. I don't think the new X2 is as ugly as the XM, but that's not saying much.
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      10-31-2023, 10:31 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by FCBayernFTW View Post
The “Coupe” SUVs have always been the oddballs. I have an X4 M40i and love it. My wife talked me off the ledge from trading it in and getting two X2s (M35 and 28i).

this probably is the future design language for Coupe SUVs
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Originally Posted by Mizuno View Post
Yeah next year that will be my option. A new X2 m35 or a certified X4 M40. Im single with no family but do a lot of golf and bike travel so need to see which one will work size wize.
I just don’t understand this. I can understand new BMW buyers getting the X1 or X2 or 2er GC, but why would an established BMW owner willingly choose to go from a properly mounted inline six rwd designed BMW with a ZF transmission to a sideways mounted four banger fwd designed “BMW” with an Aisin transaxle?! As a side note - are y’all aware the xDrive in these cars is not the xDrive you are used to? They are 100% fwd until the system detects wheel spin of the front wheels and only then is any power directed to the rear wheels and then only for as long as absolutely necessary. If transverse mounted fwd is your choice then why pay the fairly substantial premium for a BMW roundel? There are almost limitless other options available for substantially less money.
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      10-31-2023, 12:28 PM   #229
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I just don’t understand this. I can understand new BMW buyers getting the X1 or X2 or 2er GC, but why would an established BMW owner willingly choose to go from a properly mounted inline six rwd designed BMW with a ZF transmission to a sideways mounted four banger fwd designed “BMW” with an Aisin transaxle?! As a side note - are y’all aware the xDrive in these cars is not the xDrive you are used to? They are 100% fwd until the system detects wheel spin of the front wheels and only then is any power directed to the rear wheels and then only for as long as absolutely necessary. If transverse mounted fwd is your choice then why pay the fairly substantial premium for a BMW roundel? There are almost limitless other options available for substantially less money.
Most people don't know which wheels are driven on their vehicles, let alone engine orientation or displacement. Such is life.
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      10-31-2023, 12:51 PM   #230
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Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
I just don’t understand this. I can understand new BMW buyers getting the X1 or X2 or 2er GC, but why would an established BMW owner willingly choose to go from a properly mounted inline six rwd designed BMW with a ZF transmission to a sideways mounted four banger fwd designed “BMW” with an Aisin transaxle?! As a side note - are y’all aware the xDrive in these cars is not the xDrive you are used to? They are 100% fwd until the system detects wheel spin of the front wheels and only then is any power directed to the rear wheels and then only for as long as absolutely necessary. If transverse mounted fwd is your choice then why pay the fairly substantial premium for a BMW roundel? There are almost limitless other options available for substantially less money.
I'm not sure why you care what the reasons are for an "established BMW owner" to "willingly" purchase a vehicle with a transverse mounted I4 engine. BMW, MB, Audi all offer such vehicles and people are buying them. I had my reasons and others obviously have their reasons. Just because you don't have a reason to buy one doesn't mean others don't have reasons.
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      10-31-2023, 04:52 PM   #231
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Originally Posted by freakystyly View Post
Most people don't know which wheels are driven on their vehicles, let alone engine orientation or displacement. Such is life.
Yes, that’s mostly true, but not mostly true for the majority of folks on this forum.

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Originally Posted by bimmerdriver2 View Post
I'm not sure why you care what the reasons are for an "established BMW owner" to "willingly" purchase a vehicle with a transverse mounted I4 engine. BMW, MB, Audi all offer such vehicles and people are buying them. I had my reasons and others obviously have their reasons. Just because you don't have a reason to buy one doesn't mean others don't have reasons.
And I don’t really care whether you are sure.


Can’t imagine why anyone would ever comment on BMW offering front wheel drive cars?? Surely no one has ever done that before.
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      10-31-2023, 10:16 PM   #232
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Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
I just don’t understand this. I can understand new BMW buyers getting the X1 or X2 or 2er GC, but why would an established BMW owner willingly choose to go from a properly mounted inline six rwd designed BMW with a ZF transmission to a sideways mounted yada yada yada yada ......
I aint going from one to the other. The 240 will be paid off and Im keeping it What I REALLY want is the new Touring models we CANT HAVE IN THE US.
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      10-31-2023, 10:28 PM   #233
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I aint going from one to the other. The 240 will be paid off and Im keeping it What I REALLY want is the new Touring models we CANT HAVE IN THE US.
Okay. Without a doubt get the CPO X4 M40i!! There’s not really a choice to be made!!
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      11-08-2023, 06:56 PM   #234
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Yes, that’s mostly true, but not mostly true for the majority of folks on this forum.



And I don’t really care whether you are sure.


Can’t imagine why anyone would ever comment on BMW offering front wheel drive cars?? Surely no one has ever done that before.
True, also for me, a "real" BMW is RWD and preferable with a I6 engine. The FWD BMW's are too expensive wrt competitors with more FWD experience. Just my 2 cent opinion.
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      11-09-2023, 05:13 PM   #235
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Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
I just don’t understand this. I can understand new BMW buyers getting the X1 or X2 or 2er GC, but why would an established BMW owner willingly choose to go from a properly mounted inline six rwd designed BMW with a ZF transmission to a sideways mounted four banger fwd designed “BMW” with an Aisin transaxle?! As a side note - are y’all aware the xDrive in these cars is not the xDrive you are used to? They are 100% fwd until the system detects wheel spin of the front wheels and only then is any power directed to the rear wheels and then only for as long as absolutely necessary. If transverse mounted fwd is your choice then why pay the fairly substantial premium for a BMW roundel? There are almost limitless other options available for substantially less money.
Maybe some people don't want to spend $15k more to get the inline 6 and ZF for a commuter vehicle? I've driven a few X1 loaners and they are perfectly fine for the average person driver that DGAF about engine orientation or if the AWD is FWD or RWD until slippage occurs. The only people that fret about stuff like that is car nerds on forums like us. The X1 makes a lot of sense for people cross shopping vehicles like the Q3 (vastly inferior) or GLA (one of the least reliable vehicles in the industry).
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      11-09-2023, 05:31 PM   #236
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Maybe some people don't want to spend $15k more to get the inline 6 and ZF for a commuter vehicle? I've driven a few X1 loaners and they are perfectly fine for the average person driver that DGAF about engine orientation or if the AWD is FWD or RWD until slippage occurs. The only people that fret about stuff like that is car nerds on forums like us. The X1 makes a lot of sense for people cross shopping vehicles like the Q3 (vastly inferior) or GLA (one of the least reliable vehicles in the industry).
I think that we can indeed start questioning the extra flair of the i6/RWD concept seen the FWD platforms have also become massively better since the 2000s. My ideation is still coming from my youth (1980s) when the BMW I6s delivered a breath taking experience compared with the cars my parents bought sounding like nails in a cement mixer and delivering sensations of a lawnmower while driving it.
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      11-09-2023, 11:30 PM   #237
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Originally Posted by Mizuno View Post
Yeah next year that will be my option. A new X2 m35 or a certified X4 M40. Im single with no family but do a lot of golf and bike travel so need to see which one will work size wize.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
I just don’t understand this. I can understand new BMW buyers getting the X1 or X2 or 2er GC, but why would an established BMW owner willingly choose to go from a properly mounted inline six rwd designed BMW with a ZF transmission to a sideways mounted four banger fwd designed “BMW” with an Aisin transaxle?! As a side note - are y’all aware the xDrive in these cars is not the xDrive you are used to? They are 100% fwd until the system detects wheel spin of the front wheels and only then is any power directed to the rear wheels and then only for as long as absolutely necessary. If transverse mounted fwd is your choice then why pay the fairly substantial premium for a BMW roundel? There are almost limitless other options available for substantially less money.
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Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
Maybe some people don't want to spend $15k more to get the inline 6 and ZF for a commuter vehicle? I've driven a few X1 loaners and they are perfectly fine for the average person driver that DGAF about engine orientation or if the AWD is FWD or RWD until slippage occurs. The only people that fret about stuff like that is car nerds on forums like us. The X1 makes a lot of sense for people cross shopping vehicles like the Q3 (vastly inferior) or GLA (one of the least reliable vehicles in the industry).
And my comment wasn’t addressed to “some people”. It was addressed to one specific person whose post sounded like he was considering going from an M240i to an FWD BMW with a transverse mounted motor and a transaxle and it turns out that person is one of the “car nerds on forums like us.” Fortunately, that’s not what he’s considering. And it was prefaced by basically saying I can understand those cars appealing to other people. Maybe you should read the post again.
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      11-12-2023, 11:16 AM   #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
I just don’t understand this. I can understand new BMW buyers getting the X1 or X2 or 2er GC, but why would an established BMW owner willingly choose to go from a properly mounted inline six rwd designed BMW with a ZF transmission to a sideways mounted four banger fwd designed “BMW” with an Aisin transaxle?! As a side note - are y’all aware the xDrive in these cars is not the xDrive you are used to? They are 100% fwd until the system detects wheel spin of the front wheels and only then is any power directed to the rear wheels and then only for as long as absolutely necessary. If transverse mounted fwd is your choice then why pay the fairly substantial premium for a BMW roundel? There are almost limitless other options available for substantially less money.
Four types of snobbery here: transmission manufacturer, drivetrain layout, AWD type and engine configuration.

None of this truly matters - the only thing that does is the driving experience. When we got rid of our x3, I went and test drove a bunch of BMWs for our next family car. I wanted to like the 540i xDrive MSport but didn’t, just way too relaxed/lazy for our preference. Another X3 was more of the same thing as before, even though the X3 M40i was nice to drive. The X3M way too harsh riding, compromises the daily aspect unnecessarily. X5 is obese, lifeless and without finesse. The dealer offered a drive in an X2 M35i and I went out in it without any preconception at all. Wasn’t expecting to like it but 45 min of car-foolery and 2 winding roads later I was ready to sign on the dotted line. Haven’t looked back since, and it will make a great graduation gift for my son in a couple of years.

The X2 M35i requires a different driving style to my other cars. It doesn’t have the wild turn-in rotation the Z4 has (but not many cars do), and it doesn’t have the brutal grace of a track-tuned M3 (but not many cars do). It does come alive under throttle and you must find ways to keep it like that. It has a very engaging character, always ready to play, with an unexpected wild side. Even running on all seasons, it is properly fast on a twisty road and it wouldn’t be easy to keep up with it in my other two cars.

All of my car buddies who’ve driven it come out impressed, a bit bewildered as if they’re not sure what just happened.

In the end it’s very simple. $50k is a good deal for a family car that can put this smile on your face. Not sure what those other limitless options for less money would be, but I’m willing to listen.
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      11-12-2023, 02:32 PM   #239
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So this car is bigger than previous, taller, with a longer wheelbase, and a longer shell than the X1 upon which it’s based, but somehow all these things are supposed to enhance the agility. I just don’t see it.

However a DCT and LSD built into the transmission, that could be money.

The old X2 M35i is a surprisingly fun car, on and off the track. It is properly quick on a give and take road, and beating Vettes on a damp track has a charm of its own. Looking forward to try the new one (but won’t buy it).

I think design-wise the X1 is a much more cohesive package, sharp, no weirdness, so in my book the X1 M35i is the one to get.
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Agreed on both points. I’ve enjoyed driving the X2 M35i every time I’ve driven one even though I can tell it’s fwd and not rwd, but it’s always been fun to drive. And the new X1 is much more cohesive.
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And my comment wasn’t addressed to “some people”. It was addressed to one specific person whose post sounded like he was considering going from an M240i to an FWD BMW with a transverse mounted motor and a transaxle and it turns out that person is one of the “car nerds on forums like us.” Fortunately, that’s not what he’s considering. And it was prefaced by basically saying I can understand those cars appealing to other people. Maybe you should read the post again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
Four types of snobbery here: transmission manufacturer, drivetrain layout, AWD type and engine configuration.

None of this truly matters - the only thing that does is the driving experience. When we got rid of our x3, I went and test drove a bunch of BMWs for our next family car. I wanted to like the 540i xDrive MSport but didn’t, just way too relaxed/lazy for our preference. Another X3 was more of the same thing as before, even though the X3 M40i was nice to drive. The X3M way too harsh riding, compromises the daily aspect unnecessarily. X5 is obese, lifeless and without finesse. The dealer offered a drive in an X2 M35i and I went out in it without any preconception at all. Wasn’t expecting to like it but 45 min of car-foolery and 2 winding roads later I was ready to sign on the dotted line. Haven’t looked back since, and it will make a great graduation gift for my son in a couple of years.

The X2 M35i requires a different driving style to my other cars. It doesn’t have the wild turn-in rotation the Z4 has (but not many cars do), and it doesn’t have the brutal grace of a track-tuned M3 (but not many cars do). It does come alive under throttle and you must find ways to keep it like that. It has a very engaging character, always ready to play, with an unexpected wild side. Even running on all seasons, it is properly fast on a twisty road and it wouldn’t be easy to keep up with it in my other two cars.

All of my car buddies who’ve driven it come out impressed, a bit bewildered as if they’re not sure what just happened.

In the end it’s very simple. $50k is a good deal for a family car that can put this smile on your face. Not sure what those other limitless options for less money would be, but I’m willing to listen.
Apparently you completely missed the post right above the one you just made and forgot about the post I made in response to your initial post about the X2 M35i.

I completely disagree with you that none of it matters. All of it matters. It all makes the driving experience what it is. Just as one example, as I mentioned regarding the fact that I enjoyed driving the X2 M35i it still was apparent it was a fwd car and not rwd and there was zero sensation of being “pushed” around the corners that comes with rwd BMWs and even with traditional rwd biased xDrive BMWs and when pushed hard there was some front torque steer that non-fwd BMWs do not have.

Just a small note regarding transmissions. I don’t think anyone will offer a dispute that the ZF transmissions BMW is using today are significantly superior to the GM transmissions they used in some of their cars in years past. The Getrag transmissions were also preferred by most over the GM transmissions. That’s not even to say the GM transmissions were bad. GM has been known for having good automatic transmissions, but the ZFs and Getrags were better suited for BMW’s applications. So, yes all of the factors matter.
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      11-13-2023, 11:07 AM   #240
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Apparently you completely missed the post right above the one you just made and forgot about the post I made in response to your initial post about the X2 M35i.
My bad, I must be getting older.

Quote:
I completely disagree with you that none of it matters. All of it matters. It all makes the driving experience what it is. Just as one example, as I mentioned regarding the fact that I enjoyed driving the X2 M35i it still was apparent it was a fwd car and not rwd and there was zero sensation of being “pushed” around the corners that comes with rwd BMWs and even with traditional rwd biased xDrive BMWs and when pushed hard there was some front torque steer that non-fwd BMWs do not have.
Mostly right. The best driving experience IMO is achieved by pushing the traction control button with a short press, enabling DTC.

We both agree that driving the X2 M35i is fun, despite it having different driving dynamics than traditional BMW's. So this is exactly the reason why a serial RWD BMW owner like myself can find themselves buying this car. It is way more fun than the alternatives I had tried at the time: X3, 5 series, and 3 series. It just has this energy, simply buzzing, straining at the leash - I always drive it like I stole it.

What other model in the BMW lineup can match this level of excitement, and practicality, at that price? This is a serious question, point me to it and I might bite.

Quote:
Just a small note regarding transmissions. I don’t think anyone will offer a dispute that the ZF transmissions BMW is using today are significantly superior to the GM transmissions they used in some of their cars in years past. The Getrag transmissions were also preferred by most over the GM transmissions. That’s not even to say the GM transmissions were bad. GM has been known for having good automatic transmissions, but the ZFs and Getrags were better suited for BMW’s applications. So, yes all of the factors matter.
I thought the GM versions were totally boring and not suited to a BMW. It is why I never bought one with a GM tranny in it.
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      11-24-2023, 08:32 AM   #241
Imhotep the high priest
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Originally Posted by M3N4CE View Post
As an M440i owner, I'm offended that this X2 gets M compound breaks and quad pipes that were not an option when I ordered my car a year ago..
As an M440i coupé owner, 100% agree with what you’ve said.

Very offended by the M Compound Brakes and quad exhaust stuff.
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