The Airplane Thread

[Lady Jane]

Arado AR-96

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arado_Ar_96

[Llarry]

U.S. Navy Carrier Air Groups in World War II -- part 2

The navy had up to two dozen so-called fleet carriers; these were full-sized and had 72 aircraft embarked in 1941 and 100+ by the end of the war in 1945.

But they also had many more small carriers of two types:
-- Small carriers (CVL; sometimes called light carriers) were built on an emergency basis on incomplete cruiser hulls. These had much smaller flight decks and hangar decks, but were fast (30 knots-plus) and could keep up with and supplement the fleet carriers.
-- Escort carriers (CVE); these were about the same size as the CVLs, but were built on merchant ship hulls and were only capable of about 20 knots. CVEs could not keep up with the carrier task forces but were used for other purposes -- in particular they were extremely valuable in the Battle of the Atlantic against German submarines.

CVL air groups were just a smaller size version of the fleet carriers but did not embark scout/dive bombers. They had a fighting squadron with 24 F6F Hellcats and a small torpedo squadron with 9 TBF or TBM Avengers.

CVE air groups varied between the Atlantic and Pacific fleets: Atlantic fleet CVEs had fewer fighters and more torpedo bombers as the latter were more effective at attacking U-boats. Pacific fleet CVEs supported amphibious landings and the like and had an air group about the same as the CVLs. But escort carriers did not use the fleet-standard F6F Hellcat; they stuck with the smaller and less capable F4F Wildcat. Grumman developed an upgraded Wildcat and turned production over to the Eastern Aircraft division of General Motors as the FM-2 Wildcat, which remained in production until the end of the war. Note that the pictured FM-2 is in "Atlantic scheme" paint with lots of white and grey rather than the blue used on the Pacific side.

[Llarry]

The earliest Navy and Marine Corps fighters in service predated the first aircraft carrier, the USS Langley, which was commissioned in 1922.

The Navy was still centered on the battleship but the leadership was worried about the vulnerability of battleships to air attack. An early, small-scale effort was the construction of wooden platforms on top of battleship turrets, enabling the wheeled fighters to take off. Landing was a different matter, but I suppose the thinking was that the fighter was expendable. At about the same time, a few fighters were equipped as floatplanes and attached to battleships; at least these could land alongside, be hoisted back aboard and re-used.

The earliest "turret fighter" was the Sopwith Camel of World War I fame. Just six were used and for only a short period. Early floatplane fighters included the Vought VE-7SF, which had not been designed as a fighter and the Vought FU-1, which had been.

At the same time, the Navy was exploring carrier-based fighters. The first purpose-designed carrier fighter was the Naval Aircraft Factory TS-1. A few years later, came the Curtiss F6C Hawk and the Boeing FB; both of which were bought in squadron size during the mid-1920s. Examples of both were also used by the Marines in small numbers.

The Camel had an old-fashioned rotary engine. Radial engines were still in their infancy, but became the standard for Navy aircraft. Note that the TS-1 and FU-1 have early radials but the carrier-based F6C and FB still used water-cooled V-12s; that would soon change.

[Llarry]

A 1980s photo of an F4U in checkerboard markings at a Planes of Fame airshow. Not the best quality...

[M-technik-3]

Just how big is a TBM with wings folded back....

Could only load it with one wing attached.

[M4Tejas]

Hahn AB, Germany. (HR) 1972 to 1976 F4-D's Cold War. The closest base to Communist territory during the period, 45 minutes. Good stories. East German spies on the AB etc....sabotage

Lived in base housing, quarters on the other side of the tree line ...


......not that far from the Ring either


......hey you see that bratwurst stand down there.....pomme frittes mit mayo Bitte.....

[M4Tejas]

.......

[M4Tejas]

Chateauroux,AB, France. German Luftwaffe trained here before end of WWII. 50's


My fathers jacket......pushing 90

[BMWGUYinCO]

It's a plane! It's a submarine!

No, it's.....both?

I was curious if anyone had ever constructed an airplane that could also go underwater as a submarine. The Russians conceptualized one (Ushakov LPL. Not sure if it was ever built, but there are very cool looking plastic model kits available for it!), and the U.S. actually built one.
The Reid Flying Submarine was tested in 1961, but while it was able to do both, it wasn't so great at the flying part, - it was too heavy.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by Fly320s

Two exploded.

Challenger on launch and Columbia on reentry.

Sorry Fly, quoted the wrong post.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by DM5PAV

Well, they had one explode.

One on take off, cold/bad booster o-rings.

The other during reentry due to a hole in the wing from a foam hit on take off.

As said, neither because of actual landing mishaps

[Llarry]

Originally Posted by BMWGUYinCO

It's a plane! It's a submarine!

Convair worked on one 1962-64. It was never actually built, though.

[Llarry]

Originally Posted by Lady Jane

RCAF Ventura a.k.a. B-34 Lexington.


https://www.silverhawkauthor.com/pos...ckheed-ventura

Attachment 3117524

Attachment 3117525

The Ventura (USN PV-1) was known as a "hot ship" by the pilots. In the primitive and heavily-loaded conditions it operated, it could struggle on takeoff. But it was fast -- anecdotes say it was faster at low altitude than a Japanese Navy Mitsubishi Type Zero fighter and there were occasions upon which a Ventura operating out of the Aleutians would pursue and shoot down defending Japanese fighters.

Lockheed did a major redesign with a larger wing to address the pilot concerns. Now that you know the Navy designation system you would think the improved version would be the P2V -- Nope. The new aircraft, which first flew in 1943, was the PV-2 Harpoon. It was easier to fly but lost some of that wonderful combat speed. The standard PV-2 had five forward-firing .50s; the PV-2D version had eight. (If I remember correctly, the only other U.S. combat aircraft with eight forward-firing .50s was the Republic P-47. Um, come to think of it, some Douglas A-26 Invaders that appeared late in WW2 were also very heavily armed with .50s.)

In a bit of irony, one of the early aircraft flown by the postwar Japanese Maritime Self Defense Force was the Lockheed PV-2, a former enemy aircraft. (Another was the Eastern TBM torpedo bomber.)

[3798j]

1949...

[Llarry]

I've discussed U.S. Navy aircraft in World War II quite a bit in this thread, but what about the other guys?

On the Atlantic side, the only Axis aircraft that posed a threat to U.S. fleet units was the excellent long-range recon aircraft, the Focke-Wulf FW 200 Kondor. The Kondor was used to locate Allied shipping and cue submarine attacks. Allied aircraft carriers carried fighters to attack the FW 200s.

On the Pacific side, the Japanese Army and Navy had a large variety of aircraft involved in combat against the Allies. The Imperial Japanese Navy had both carrier- and land-based combat aircraft and the Allies met Imperial Japanese Army aircraft in combat in China, Southeast Asia and the Philippines. As the Allies closed in on mainland Japan later in the war, they met all sorts of Japanese aircraft, including non-combat aircraft, used in suicide attacks against Allied forces. I'll only give the briefest list of Japanese combat aircraft. One of the problems is that there were very few survivors, so decent photos are hard to come by.

Both Japanese services used the year of introduction into service as a short designation for their aircraft; the key to understanding that is to remember than the year 1940 = Year 2600 of the Imperial calendar, so that an aircraft that came into service in 1940 would be referred to as a type zero or a type 00 airplane. Likewise a 1937 aircraft would be a type 97 airplane. And so on.

The Allies knew very little about Japanese aircraft before the war and for most of the war were still very much in the dark. A few Japanese aircraft were captured and wrecks were examined for clues as to capabilities, but it was hit and miss. Perhaps the most famous case is of the IJN Mitsubishi type Zero carrier fighter that crash-landed in the Aleutians in 1942 and flipped over on its back, killing the pilot. That airplane was carefully extracted from the crash site and moved to the USA, where it was repaired and test-flown, thereby providing valuable information as to the capabilities of the airplane, which in the early months of the war had achieved an almost mythical status as a super- fighter.

Those who followed (and were confused by) my posts on the Navy designation system may be chagrined to learn that the Japanese Navy used the same system! The Zero fighter's formal designation was A6M, where A=carrier fighter, 6=6th generation and M= Mitsubishi. The Japanese Army used a simple system where each aircraft was designated by a number preceded by "ki" (machine).

Anyway, on to the photos:

1) Mitsubishi A6M type Zero carrier fighter (Allied code name 'Zeke') -- extremely agile, fast-climbing and well-armed; little to no armor protection for the pilot. Dominated early air-to-air combat but newer Allied fighters soon joined the fight and the Zero was the main Navy fighter for the entire war, so that it was soon outclassed.
2) Mitsubishi G3M type 96 Navy and-based bomber (Allied code name 'Nell') -- Famous as the bomber that sank the Royal Navy's battleship and battle cruiser in the South China Sea in the early days of the war, stunning Britain. Obsolescent.
3) Mitsubishi G4M type 1 Navy land-based bomber (Allied 'Betty') -- Replaced the G3M and used widely. Like most Japanese combat aircraft, lacked armor and self-sealing fuel tanks, and therefore, when hit by gunfire, tended to catch fire.
4) Nakajima B5N type 97 Navy carrier-based torpedo bomber (Allied 'Kate) -- the standard torpedo bomber, used with devastating effect in the attack on the U.S. fleet at Pearl Harbor in December 1941.
5) Aichi D3A type 99 Navy carrier-based dive bomber (Allied 'Val') -- the standard dive bomber, also used very effectively at Pearl Harbor and in the early carrier battles. (Not pictured)
6) Kawanishi H8K type 2 Navy flying boat (Allied 'Emily') -- Probably the best flying boat of the war of any nation. Very long range and heavily-armed.
7) Nakajima Ki-43 Army fighter (Allied 'Oscar') -- Most numerous Army fighter; very light construction and lightly-armed; out-classed by Allied aircraft, though very maneuverable.
8) Kawaskai Ki-61 Army fighter (Allied 'Tony') -- Notable for using a license-built Daimler-Benz inverted V-12 engine like that of the German Me-/Bf-109 and erroneously thought to be a Japanese version of the -109 for a while.
9) Nakajima Ki-84 Army fighter (Allied 'Frank') -- Proof that the Japanese aero industry could produce a superior aircraft. Outstanding in virtually all aspects but crippled during the final years of the war (as were all Japanese aircraft) by poor-quality aviation fuel. Post-war tests in the USA showed performance on a par with the P-51 Mustang when using quality aviation gasoline.
10) Mitsubishi Ki-21 type 97 Army bomber (Allied 'Sally') -- Effective in the early months of the war but outclassed thereafter.

[BMWGUYinCO]

Originally Posted by Llarry

3) Mitsubishi G4M type 1 Navy land-based bomber (Allied 'Betty') -- Replaced the G3M and used widely. Like most Japanese combat aircraft, lacked armor and self-sealing fuel tanks, and therefore, when hit by gunfire, tended to catch fire.

Hey Llarry, I (we) always enjoy your informative posts, thank you!

As for the "Betty", that airplane has a particular spot in WWII history.

Reason: Japanese Admiral Isoroko Yamamoto, who conceived the attack on Pearl Harbor, was shot down by an American P-38 Lightning over the island of Bouganville while riding in that plane. The Americans had broken Japanese code and had his full itinerary, and so was able to attack him en route to visiting Japanese troops for morale. Apparently, he was thrown clear of the wreckage, where his body was found sitting upright, still in his seat below a tree. But the medical report stated it was not the crash that killed him - it was two .50 caliber bullets, one in his left shoulder and one in his head that was fatal. Apparently, he was still clutching his katana sword in his white gloved hand, although this might have been Japanese added lore.

The story of this feat is actually pretty fascinating: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Vengeance and has set a historical precedence regarding the assassinations of high ranking enemy officials in foreign countries.

Last fact: did you know that Yamamoto spent time studying at Harvard University (1919 - 1921) and travelled quite a bit thoughout the United States during this time, learning fluent English?

[M4Tejas]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hahn_Air_Base

[Lady Jane]

Daimler-Benz Luftprojekt.

[ezaircon4jc]

Originally Posted by 3798j

1949...

I was TDY on the Midway, CV41, in 1979.

[Llarry]

Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc

I was TDY on the Midway, CV41, in 1979.

The USS Midway served long and honorably -- commissioned in the last days of World War II (but never saw combat) and took part in the Gulf War of 1991.

My Dad was a squadron commander on the Midway 1959-60 and in 1983, as the officer-in-charge of small detachment of CTs, I was on the missile cruiser USS Leahy as part of the Midway battle group. Since we were an air defense missile shooter, we spent most of our time over the horizon but it was always a bit of a treat to go in and see the carrier. In particular, I remember going into the port of Subic Bay in the Philippines and there was a typhoon creating monstrous seas. As a kid I would get carsick and seasick but I had none of that as I stood on Leahy's wildly pitching and rolling deck and watching the Midway plowing her way through heavy seas. Quite the show. We had to loiter outside the bay for a few hours until the seas moderated.

And the Midway is now a memorial in San Diego: open to the public and displaying a variety of aircraft on her deck.

[Llarry]

The nose compartment of a Boeing B-17G Flying Fortress looks like a very busy place -- not only a bombsight but also a "cheek" machine gun on either side and the controls (upper right) for the twin machine guns in a turret immediately below the floor. I can scarcely imagine the feelings of being in this little space high over Germany with black puffs of flak all around -- so vulnerable! Death or injury just a microsecond away. What heroes!

And in truth, those on the other side were equally heroic. Fighter pilots sent aloft to shoot down the Allied bombers ravaging their homeland, facing massed formations of heavily-armed bombers and often with fighter escort. The anti-aircraft flak crews on the ground below. They were also heroes.

And they are almost all gone now. Killed in action at the age of twenty or faded away in their old age. Salute!

[Llarry]

A6M Zero in foreground and Ki-43 'Oscar' in back