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      03-26-2022, 10:23 PM   #1
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Michelin Pilot Sport 4S ALTERNATIVES(?): Yoko V601? Firestone Indy 500?

I've been running Pilot Sports for the longest time but have come to the realization that I've just been burning $$$$ w/o any real pt. Not as if I drive that aggressively to max out their potential on the streets and these tires seem to wear out pretty fast. I actually never shopped around but now that I'm looking at alternatives, it's quite a big premium to go for Michelins and I want out lol.

I'm looking at these 2 alternatives and the Firestone looks great from a value POV, but if you have other suggestions or think I should go for one tire vs another, please lemme know.

EDIT: I heard of the Contis Extreme Contact Sports but the $ savings isn't good enough so I might as well stick w the Michelins.

Criteria:
.must be new
.dedicated summers only (I have dedicated winters)
.performance tire good in dry & wet
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Last edited by tranquility; 03-26-2022 at 10:29 PM..
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      03-27-2022, 02:45 AM   #2
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Interesting question.
Im getting to the point where i have to change my summer tires aswell.
My Michelin Pilot Supersports are getting 5 years old. They still have some tread left. Age of the tires is the main reason why im looking for replacement.

I dont really think that Michelins are that overpriced. Yes the initial cost is high but they last a long time, comfort and performance is amazing aswell.
I have never had any tires that were that good and lasted so long that i had to replace them due to age. Usually my tires ran out of tread in 2-3 years or so. Never have i had same tires for 5 years. The longevity is actually amazing in my opinion and balances out the initial cost.

Also experimenting with tires isnt cheap and you can go wrong and end up with something you dont like ( handling characteristics, ride comfort etc.)

I used to use Bridgestones a lot on my previous cars. They werent bad. Not as good as the Supersports. But i never complained.
One time i deviated from that. My brother got a good offer on Continental Sport Contact 5-s and as I needed tires aswell I jumped on it aswell and we purchased 2 sets together. This ended up being a huge disappointment. They were too soft, understeery, not communicative enough and the fronts lasted only 1 season (FWD Civic Type R). Ruined the driving experience in my opinion.

Im still leaning towards Michelin 4S for replacement just because how good Supersports have been. But i am interested where this thread goes. Maybe it will change my mind .
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Last edited by KennyP; 03-27-2022 at 02:53 AM..
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      03-27-2022, 08:41 AM   #3
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I had those Contis on the E85 with stock suspension. I loved it. I went straight to the PS4S on the E89 and am loving it. But it’s apples and oranges. The cars have massively different suspensions and geometries. And driving a DCT with the auxiliary LFB pedal massively changes entry speed, exit, power, etc.

So far the PS4S have been magnificent. All thanks to my indy, Dave at Ottowerks in San Fran.
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      03-27-2022, 03:04 PM   #4
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Ok, so a couple of Pilot Sport disciples chimed in, haha, that's totally understandable, since these tires are supposed to be #1, the gold std.

For me, I'm not sure they are the best value since I'm not driving that aggressively on the streets (not that anyone should) and I find them to wear out quite fast, so I'm looking for better cost alternatives.
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      03-27-2022, 05:55 PM   #5
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I’ve only owned the 35is for approx 14-15 months. It came all stock with massive understeer. I’ve switched from RFTs to the PS4S within 2-3 months, when the indy installed the monoballs, camber plates and the ill-fitted H&R springs. Night and day handling. Precise, crisp, predicable. The KWV3 made it even better.

Both fronts got punctured and replaced. The rears have 12-15K miles, great grip, and zero sign of wear.

If I can replicate Kenny’s experience and make them last 5 years, that’s the best tyre investment ever.
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      03-27-2022, 07:08 PM   #6
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I dunno how he made them last 5 years but then again I probably drive a lot more than him.
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      03-28-2022, 03:20 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tranquility View Post
I dunno how he made them last 5 years but then again I probably drive a lot more than him.
Thats true I dont drive that much. Dont have long commutes. Everything is near to me. Also sometimes i use other more practical cars. I would say 7000-7500 km a year on average thats 4300- 4700 miles a year and that includes winter on winter tires aswell(though i drive alot less during the winter season). On one year my mileage was even less than that due to back injury, back operation and recovery from all that. That took half a year so my mileage on that year was basically half of what i normally do.
So ruffly 20k-22k miles (or 32k-34k km) of driving during that 5years. Maybe a bit more.

And if i subtract winter miles, done on winter tires, say a quarter or 1/3 of the whole mileage, the number is getting really low.

I could treadwise go one more season on these tires, but i dont know. 5 year rule and all that. Also have noticed that they arent as grippy as they used to be anymore.

Also i dont drift, do burnouts or use launch control. But i do push the car, drive fast and have fun in the bends.
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      03-28-2022, 01:45 PM   #8
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Holy moly, just priced out a whole set and I never realized that I've spent so much on tires. The PSS/4S are exactly double the price of the Firestones. I dunno if they are worth twice the amount/give twice the performance, so I guess I'm gonna try the Indy 500s now.
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      03-30-2022, 07:05 PM   #9
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I don't drive my Z4 that much, but I drive year round. I ditched the original Bridgestone runflats when they got to 6 years old (and hard as a rock.)

I went with Michelin PS4 AS tires. I'm just not a fan of summer tires. If I was tracking the car, maybe I would but for normal road driving the all seasons have more than enough performance and they hold up much longer. They weren't the cheapest option, but they were cheaper than the OE Bridgestones.

I've been really happy with the PS4 AS tires.

Gerry
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      03-30-2022, 07:53 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GerryC View Post
I don't drive my Z4 that much, but I drive year round. I ditched the original Bridgestone runflats when they got to 6 years old (and hard as a rock.)

I went with Michelin PS4 AS tires. I'm just not a fan of summer tires. If I was tracking the car, maybe I would but for normal road driving the all seasons have more than enough performance and they hold up much longer. They weren't the cheapest option, but they were cheaper than the OE Bridgestones.

I've been really happy with the PS4 AS tires.

Gerry
I suppose for your climate A/S may make sense. However, by law we have to have dedicated winters, so I might as well get dedicated summers (no idea if A/Ss are cheaper but it's not relevant to me due to this legal reason, so getting the best tire for each specific season is ideal).
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      03-31-2022, 12:47 PM   #11
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"However, by law we have to have dedicated winters"
Is that true throughout Canada, or just a regional thing? Are A/S tires even marketed in Montreal? Who would buy them?
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      03-31-2022, 12:53 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paris1 View Post
"However, by law we have to have dedicated winters"
Is that true throughout Canada, or just a regional thing? Are A/S tires even marketed in Montreal? Who would buy them?
I only heard of it for Quebec but don't quote me haha.

I think A/Ss are sold but I have no idea why ppl would buy them here...maybe if they are cheaper than summers? Other than for $ reasons, I dunno why ppl here would want A/Ss over dedicated summers.
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      04-03-2022, 10:22 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tranquility View Post
I suppose for your climate A/S may make sense. However, by law we have to have dedicated winters, so I might as well get dedicated summers (no idea if A/Ss are cheaper but it's not relevant to me due to this legal reason, so getting the best tire for each specific season is ideal).
In Florida I could run either summers or A/S tires, though it does on occasion get cold enough in the winter that summers will not perform. When temps get down around 50 deg F, (10 deg C) summer tires get hard and start losing traction. A/S work fine in summer heat, though they're a bit harder compound so you lose a bit of traction but they hold up longer. They're also good, but not great, down when it gets near freezing.

The A/S PS4 are cheaper (Tirerack $859.96 vs. $983.96 for a set of 4) than the summer PS4S. And when you figure in that you can get more miles out of them. Michelin warranty is 45k mi for the A/S and 30K mi for the PS4S.

The difference in overall performance is small enough to be irrelevant to me. If I did track days in it, I might consider changing that position.

Gerry
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      04-03-2022, 11:55 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GerryC View Post
In Florida I could run either summers or A/S tires, though it does on occasion get cold enough in the winter that summers will not perform. When temps get down around 50 deg F, (10 deg C) summer tires get hard and start losing traction. A/S work fine in summer heat, though they're a bit harder compound so you lose a bit of traction but they hold up longer. They're also good, but not great, down when it gets near freezing.

The A/S PS4 are cheaper (Tirerack $859.96 vs. $983.96 for a set of 4) than the summer PS4S. And when you figure in that you can get more miles out of them. Michelin warranty is 45k mi for the A/S and 30K mi for the PS4S.

The difference in overall performance is small enough to be irrelevant to me. If I did track days in it, I might consider changing that position.

Gerry
Ya, for your climate I might consider A/Ss too for the simple fact that you only need to switch them when they're done, not due to changing temps, which is a bit of a pita. The cost savings is nice but not too significant to me vs the convenience factor.
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      04-05-2022, 09:09 AM   #15
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Good morning, new here. Will be getting a 2014 Z4 Saturday with the original Potenza tires that are at end of life. Struggling with what to replace them with. Need to stay with run flat. I could replace them with Potenza, the Michelin Pisot Sport 4S ZP, or Bridgestone Driveguard. I live in NY, about 35 miles outside of NYC so temp can get down into the teens. All of the Summer Performance tires have warnings about driving in the winter so I'm confused about this since the OEM is the Potenza with the same warning. I would be doing local driving, maybe a bit longer and not pushing the car at all. Am I OK with any of the above tires? Am I overthinking this whole thing? Is there a recommended all season runflat? Suggestions appreciated.

Steve
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      04-05-2022, 11:12 PM   #16
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Steve, I’ve lived in MN and IL with summer RFT only. Never felt the tyres letting me down. But then, I slow down considerably in the winter. Grip just isn’t there in those conditions, regardless of tyre, tarmac, etc. And if it’s really bad, I don’t even drive.
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      04-05-2022, 11:58 PM   #17
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Why keep runflats? Getting rid of runflats is the biggest thing you can do to improve ride comfort apart from decreasing wheel size.
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      04-14-2022, 11:06 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcoose View Post
. The rears have 12-15K miles, great grip, and zero sign of wear.
You're not trying hard enough.

My rears weare out every 17-18k miles and 2x as fast as the fronts
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      04-14-2022, 02:57 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lurcher View Post
You're not trying hard enough.

My rears weare out every 17-18k miles and 2x as fast as the fronts
Very broadly speaking, rear wear comes from putting power down. I don’t gun it in town, and in the twisties, I apply throttle very progressively and keep under 60 mph. (Same with the motorbike.) And the aux LFB pedal helps making the transition even smoother. My tyres last forever.
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      04-14-2022, 06:23 PM   #20
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I have the Firehawks on a 335i immediately after having a 4S set. Yes Michelins are far better tire but for the price Firehawks are a good daily compromise iff you have separate tires for the track. The Firehawks feel more like a drifters tire after a 4S set. They break loose easier which can be its own kind of fun. The ride is still good, may be a bit higher noise but they wear well.

However if you are driving that few of miles i would not hesitate to spring for the 4S tires. The firehawks are attractive to those of us who may go through daily tires too much. My 3rd car is a Z4 and a weekend/track car and it will have 4S for street (because it will be low miles on street) and either cup2s or re71s for the track. Btw 4S are amazing wet tires too.
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      04-14-2022, 08:14 PM   #21
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Quote:
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I have the Firehawks on a 335i immediately after having a 4S set. Yes Michelins are far better tire but for the price Firehawks are a good daily compromise iff you have separate tires for the track. The Firehawks feel more like a drifters tire after a 4S set. They break loose easier which can be its own kind of fun. The ride is still good, may be a bit higher noise but they wear well.

However if you are driving that few of miles i would not hesitate to spring for the 4S tires. The firehawks are attractive to those of us who may go through daily tires too much. My 3rd car is a Z4 and a weekend/track car and it will have 4S for street (because it will be low miles on street) and either cup2s or re71s for the track. Btw 4S are amazing wet tires too.
Tx for the assessment. Ya, the PSS/4S are definitely very planted but I have nothing to compare them to as the only other summers I had were the OEM RFT Pirellis: the 4Ss were better but surprisingly I didn't think that they were night and day. I guess I'll find out about the Firehawks when I have them installed.
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      04-23-2022, 04:06 AM   #22
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Just noticed that Michelin PS5 has been released and can already be purchased. No sign of PS5S yet but its probably going to be released soon aswell.
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