To buy or lease your E89?

[R1robot]

I've never leased a car before but i wonder how reliable the 35i is? Anyone plan on keeping your E89 for the long haul? Or do you lease because it will become a nightmare in the future? I presume monthly payments are higher on leases, correct me if i am wrong(i have great credit by the way). For those who are keeping your 35i, what parts do you have lined up to replace that has not already been listed in the past, so far i know;

HPFP, piezo injectors, Air conditioner system randomly turning off and HVAC, hardtop noises, overheating issues limp mode, replacing RFT's with PS2's. Anyone have problems with the twin turbo? Whats the typical life expectancy of this turbo set up?

I'd like to buy the 35i but the only thing that makes me think i should lease is the reliability of the 35i vs the reliability of the porsche 981. Anyone owned the 981 S model in particular? In a nutshell, i need more input from owners of 981 model's and 35i models in this forum.

Also, yes i've googled both and the 981 is too new for any relevant statistics.

[nicknaz]

lease vs. buy AND Z4 vs. Boxster/Cayman.. double potential to be a can of worms




With all the concerns you mentioned about reliability the lease is a no brainer. Why keep the machine around long term if your belief is that it will be unreliable?

Besides, historically, the rates have been great for this car....

I personally think Z vs. Boxster/Cayman comes down to your budget and personal preferences. I'm biased because funds permitting I would be driving a GT3 right now instead of a Z4

[R1robot]

Budget is 55K, Z4 looks amazing, but objectively the 981 is the better car.

[CedarZ4]

All I can say is with 55k, you are looking at a bone stock base Cayman with very little standard options, compared to a very well equipped 28i or decently equipped 35i, even though it MSRPs at 55k, due to very generous standard options.

Don't know if you are familiar with Porsche options, but wow, they are expensive and add up very fast. You just want to keep checking those boxes. When I was using the configurator, the base Cayman I built went well over 60k with options that I considered necessities (at least on a 50k+ car), this does not include their other pricier options like the sport exhaust or PASM.

In my personal opinion, if your limit is 55k, if it is a DD, I would go with a Z4. If it is a track car or once every two week weekend car, then the Cayman might be a better choice. I say this because for me, I like my DD to really have those convenience options to make my commute as pleasurable as possible, which you will not get on the Cayman unless you tack them on. In addition, the Z has plenty of punch to get your adrenaline running when you want it to. It's not a track monster, but I think most would agree here that the Z is a fantastic well-balanced DD vehicle with decent performance. I bet the Cayman is too, if not better, but of course comes with a greater premium.

[ManiacGT]

Or do what I did, buy it and take out extended warranty if you really like the car but are worried about longevity due to its level of complexity.

[jparnes1]

The main issue with Z4s has been the HPFP, but that has been resolved as of 2011 and no longer presents problems. The other concerns you mentioned have been voiced by a few members on this forum (piezos - never heard about that one), but you have to question how widespread a problem these are. You can get a skewed view because of the relatively small cohort represented here. Ask your local BMW service adviser what he's seeing as common problems. The car is in its 6th model year and probably has 1 or 2 more to go before a revamp (or discontinuation). that means the major bugs have been worked out.
Any car today can be expensive to repair and Porsche doesn't provide for 4 years of free maintenance. Do you know what it costs to change the oil in a Carrera? Don't ask.
How long do you keep your cars? Would you be happy trading the Z4 in after the warranty is up? In that case, buy it and enjoy 4 years of free repairs. If you keep it longer, then this or any car will ask you to pony up from time to time. I mean, I just had to pay $1200 to fix my son's 2004 Accord because the heater wasn't working.
Bottom line is that if you're willing to buy a high end sports car and keep it, you also need to be willing to incur the costs that go along with it. Otherwise lease or sell after 4 years are up.

[fl_cyclist]

I always lease as the cost of maintenance for German cars outside of warranty is just too expensive and frankly I get tired of my car after about 3 years anyway. Last 3 leases were BMW; 335i, X3 & now the Z435is.

I may move over to Porsche next lease but as was said every time I sit down and try to compare cars the Porsche comes out a lot more expensive. Not a fan of Audi's even though my wife has Q5 which we have had no problems with.

The one advantage of sticking with your dealer that you originally lease with is you tend to get no grief on turn in inspection, they give you a better deal on a new lease and BMW Finance will let you end lease with 3mos left. A good example is I was tired of my X3 with 1.3yrs left on the lease, they bought it back short about $2k and gave me a 2012 35is fully loaded off the showroom floor for $60k. So it worked out for me.

[nicknaz]

Brand new 35is fully loaded for $60k is an EPIC deal. Way to go.

OP I think that's another reason why your dollar will go further with BMW they will discount vs (in my experience) Porsche will not.

[CeEl]

Headlights autoleveling... Some reported issues with that.

[CeEl]

Originally Posted by jparnes1

The car is in its 6th model year and probably has 1 or 2 more to go before a revamp (or discontinuation).

Hey, don't scare us!

[fl_cyclist]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Brand new 35is fully loaded for $60k is an EPIC deal. Way to go.

OP I think that's another reason why your dollar will go further with BMW they will discount vs (in my experience) Porsche will not.

I have a good dealer, I walked out initially because they couldn't meet my lease max. But he managed to convince the manager that having an 2012 sitting around with the 2013 coming out was not good sense. Sticker on it was $71,500. Win/Win

[SgtGigglebox]

Originally Posted by fl_cyclist

I have a good dealer, I walked out initially because they couldn't meet my lease max. But he managed to convince the manager that having an 2012 sitting around with the 2013 coming out was not good sense. Sticker on it was $71,500. Win/Win

Yeah, Porsche Lease "deals" seem heavily tilted in their favor... they seem to cap the return value on the low side, which is particularly painful if you've added some options, which to them... you do at a loss.

[SgtGigglebox]

Originally Posted by CeEl

Headlights autoleveling... Some reported issues with that.

New meaning to "Special Car"... Nobody wants a googly-eyed automobile

[nrevezzo]

Talking about lease vs buy; I was looking at spending 25-30K for a used Z4(08/09). I decided I could lease a brand new Z4 for less. Ordered exactly what I wanted and in 3 years who knows.
Deciding between the Z4 and the Boxster; the looks of the Z4 please me more than the Boxster or the others I considered like the Mercedes 250.

I've had my Z4 28i for about 3 months and like it more each time I drive it. Definitely was the right decision for me.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by fl_cyclist

I have a good dealer, I walked out initially because they couldn't meet my lease max. But he managed to convince the manager that having an 2012 sitting around with the 2013 coming out was not good sense. Sticker on it was $71,500. Win/Win

Nice job!!

The more I hear about the wins other members get from leasing their BMW the harder it is for me to switch away from the brand since the deals are so good

That's like old school American at co level of discounting on a decently high priced German car.

[jparnes1]

Originally Posted by CeEl

Hey, don't scare us!

Well, who knows. It's not a very well-selling car. I think they'll continue on with roadsters. After all, it's been a long, continuous thread from the Z3 to now. Teh only way they can make it look better is to bring back the Z8

[nicknaz]

I don't think someone would come out ahead buying an E89 new and selling after 4 years versus leasing.

The residual value used to calculate the depreciation payment on leases is hovering in the mid to high 60s... (i.e. 66% when I was shopping last year).

I think that 36 month residual is completely inflated by BMW to move the cars and that the car will almost certainly lose more than 34% of its value in 3 years.

The breakeven point for buying and holding a new E89 vs. leasing is more like in the 8 years and that is without factoring in cost of maintenance and repair

[jparnes1]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

I don't think someone would come out ahead buying an E89 new and selling after 4 years versus leasing.

The residual value used to calculate the depreciation payment on leases is hovering in the mid to high 60s... (i.e. 66% when I was shopping last year).

I think that 36 month residual is completely inflated by BMW to move the cars and that the car will almost certainly lose more than 34% of its value in 3 years.

The breakeven point for buying and holding a new E89 vs. leasing is more like in the 8 years and that is without factoring in cost of maintenance and repair

Unless you do Euro Delivery. Getting the car at a 7% discount offers an opportunity to sell after a few years and retain a lot more equity in the car.

[R1robot]

Originally Posted by CedarZ4

All I can say is with 55k, you are looking at a bone stock base Cayman with very little standard options, compared to a very well equipped 28i or decently equipped 35i, even though it MSRPs at 55k, due to very generous standard options.

Don't know if you are familiar with Porsche options, but wow, they are expensive and add up very fast. You just want to keep checking those boxes. When I was using the configurator, the base Cayman I built went well over 60k with options that I considered necessities (at least on a 50k+ car), this does not include their other pricier options like the sport exhaust or PASM.

In my personal opinion, if your limit is 55k, if it is a DD, I would go with a Z4. If it is a track car or once every two week weekend car, then the Cayman might be a better choice. I say this because for me, I like my DD to really have those convenience options to make my commute as pleasurable as possible, which you will not get on the Cayman unless you tack them on. In addition, the Z has plenty of punch to get your adrenaline running when you want it to. It's not a track monster, but I think most would agree here that the Z is a fantastic well-balanced DD vehicle with decent performance. I bet the Cayman is too, if not better, but of course comes with a greater premium.

It will be a DD, and maybe tracked once a year if i find out how to keep the engine from going on limp mode during its hard runs. I don't want a cayman just the convertible boxster s, but if the cayman had a hardtop convertible option, that would amazing...And yes, i already checked the options, it would be a bear bones 981 S model boxster. Also, i'm going with certified pre-owned with low miles to get the 35i

Originally Posted by jparnes1

The main issue with Z4s has been the HPFP, but that has been resolved as of 2011 and no longer presents problems. The other concerns you mentioned have been voiced by a few members on this forum (piezos - never heard about that one), but you have to question how widespread a problem these are. You can get a skewed view because of the relatively small cohort represented here. Ask your local BMW service adviser what he's seeing as common problems. The car is in its 6th model year and probably has 1 or 2 more to go before a revamp (or discontinuation). that means the major bugs have been worked out.
Any car today can be expensive to repair and Porsche doesn't provide for 4 years of free maintenance. Do you know what it costs to change the oil in a Carrera? Don't ask.
How long do you keep your cars? Would you be happy trading the Z4 in after the warranty is up? In that case, buy it and enjoy 4 years of free repairs. If you keep it longer, then this or any car will ask you to pony up from time to time. I mean, I just had to pay $1200 to fix my son's 2004 Accord because the heater wasn't working.
Bottom line is that if you're willing to buy a high end sports car and keep it, you also need to be willing to incur the costs that go along with it. Otherwise lease or sell after 4 years are up.

I've owned vehicles around 5+ years including motorcycles. The longest i've owned a vehicle was a decade and saw it depreciate from 25K to 5800 which was how much i sold it for. That's a relief, about the HPFP no longer a problem. I did not know about Porsche's warranty...My trusted local shop doesn't like working on Porsche's but they charge more for obvious reasons. i'll have to look more into their warranty thanks.

Originally Posted by fl_cyclist

I always lease as the cost of maintenance for German cars outside of warranty is just too expensive and frankly I get tired of my car after about 3 years anyway. Last 3 leases were BMW; 335i, X3 & now the Z435is.

I may move over to Porsche next lease but as was said every time I sit down and try to compare cars the Porsche comes out a lot more expensive. Not a fan of Audi's even though my wife has Q5 which we have had no problems with.

The one advantage of sticking with your dealer that you originally lease with is you tend to get no grief on turn in inspection, they give you a better deal on a new lease and BMW Finance will let you end lease with 3mos left. A good example is I was tired of my X3 with 1.3yrs left on the lease, they bought it back short about $2k and gave me a 2012 35is fully loaded off the showroom floor for $60k. So it worked out for me.

excellent info thanks guys, so you can only lease new cars?

[CedarZ4]

Originally Posted by R1robot

It will be a DD, and maybe tracked once a year if i find out how to keep the engine from going on limp mode during its hard runs. I don't want a cayman just the convertible boxster s, but if the cayman had a hardtop convertible option, that would amazing...And yes, i already checked the options, it would be a bear bones 981 S model boxster. Also, i'm going with certified pre-owned with low miles to get the 35i

Ah, my bad. Regardless of Cayman or Boxster, they are very similar in price and option lists as well. The Boxster S starts at 62k, so I'd imagine that you will be very hard-pressed to get it for 55k, as that is the invoice price. So we are talking bone-stock + over initial budget. Getting a CPO is a very good idea for the 35i, and you can try to find some low mileage Boxster S as well, then you will be able to save a few thousands and get closer to the 55 mark.


...

excellent info thanks guys, so you can only lease new cars?

No, you can lease pre-owned cars as well, though this is not a common practice. Really depends on the dealer and financing institution if they even allow this as they don't do pre-owned leases on all models. However, due to residual values (at least in my case when I tried to lease a CPO - not the Z...) the lease price ended up being very similar, yet I am getting a used car. On another note, I have no experience with BMW leases, but from this forum it seems like they are giving away cars. Normally, I would advice against leasing if you wanted to save money, but as Nick mentioned it looks like you will actually come up ahead (contrary to Porsche or Mercedes which is not as forgiving in their lease residuals from experience, resulting in higher payment and you end up paying more)

Above

Edit: Also, touching on jparne's point about free maintenance. I currently have a Cayenne and service is ridiculous. Went in for a brake pad change and engine inspection as I heard some knocking, ended up being around $1,800. No, not ceramic brakes! With the Boxster being mid-engine and harder access, I can only imagine service related to maintenance would be even pricier. This is definitely something to take into consideration.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by jparnes1

Unless you do Euro Delivery. Getting the car at a 7% discount offers an opportunity to sell after a few years and retain a lot more equity in the car.

Don't need euro delivery to get a big discount on E89.... and residual of lease still way higher than what an individual would expect to get on the resale market in the short term.

[jparnes1]

Sorry Nick, in my mind I was thinking about buying, not leasing. I'm sure you're right, but I know nothing about leasing. I did an ED and (I'm guessing here), but you probably get a years worth of depreciation with the discount.