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      03-28-2023, 11:39 AM   #1717
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Where does the Govenment get its money...?
Yeah, that was my whole point. Because you said subsidies are so the government doesn't tax the living shit out of you.
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      03-28-2023, 11:40 AM   #1718
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Originally Posted by G35POPPEDMYCHERRY View Post
don't waste your breath


people think the government shits gold and doesn't rob us blind

its a moral argument never supported by logic or dollars
He's the one who said subsidies are so the government doesn't tax you more.

*facepalm*
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      03-28-2023, 12:07 PM   #1719
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
If you look into it, the Govenment subsidies mostly come in the form of tax breaks. Since the Govenment SETS the tax rates on industry, a subsidy is just a lower tax rate. But since the Govenment sets the tax rate, it's just all BS. The Govenment isn't subsidizing anything, it's just taking less of a cut (i.e. it's just all ether - BS).

Humorous.
Whether a specific industry pays less tax than another, or pays the same as the standard gets some of it back, that's still a subsidy. It's 6 of one, half of a dozen of the other.
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      03-28-2023, 12:42 PM   #1720
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox View Post
Whether a specific industry pays less tax than another, or pays the same as the standard gets some of it back, that's still a subsidy. It's 6 of one, half of a dozen of the other.
So like if you owned a grocery store in Brooklyn in 1958 and a mob guy says look we normally collect $500 a month from you but because weíd like you and your Italian weíre only going to collect $300 a month from you from now on in in your eyes, thatís a subsidy?
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      03-28-2023, 03:25 PM   #1721
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Originally Posted by Patton250 View Post
So like if you owned a grocery store in Brooklyn in 1958 and a mob guy says look we normally collect $500 a month from you but because weíd like you and your Italian weíre only going to collect $300 a month from you from now on in in your eyes, thatís a subsidy?
That doesn't make any sense. That's just theft.

Lets say the standard corporate tax for EVERY business is 20%.

If we take one industry and only charge them 10%, that's effectively helping that industry make their product cheaper. I don't see it as any different as still charging them 20%, then giving them back 10%.

Either way, we've probably derailed this one enough.
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      03-29-2023, 01:58 AM   #1722
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The EU have just announced a u-turn, and that ICE cars WILL continue to be made after 2035, however, will run on synthetic fuels. Expect many more announcements in the coming months/ years, as they realise EV is most definitely not the way forward.
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      03-29-2023, 04:46 AM   #1723
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
But the Govenment is the entity that "sets the standard". Subsidy is just a made up concept. The Govenment is just charging less to let a company conduct business in its industry. If there was no Govenment collecting taxes, there would be no such thing as subsidies. In your example of a 20% standard, if the Govenment decides to raise the standard to 30%, that's the opposite of the concept you believe is a "subsidy". So what do you call a 10% tax increase on an industry? What's the opposite of a subsidy?
My well thought out and written example flew right over his head but I like your explanation also. Welfare is a subsidy. Charging an individual, a company, or a corporation less taxes is NOT a subsidy. He doesnít seem to be able to understand this. But this is how half our government and all the media has trained the masses over the last 50 years. How else could they say that even know the top 10 percent of income earners pay well over 50% of all taxes they still are not paying their fair share? Absolutely laughable yet people believe it.
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      03-29-2023, 07:20 AM   #1724
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
I liked your Mob themed response to explain it, it was prefectly clear, and was going to go that way too. After reading his reaction to your post I'm glad I didn't go with the Mob protection example. I responded to your post last night but took it down earlier this morning. It was a toung in cheek comment in Mob English about just breaking one's foot vs. breaking his leg. I thought I'd get called racist, so I took it off the thread. Lol.

I'm hoping my last post gets it to sink in. I guess it's just the difference between being educated to learn and regurgitate facts, vs. being educated how to learn to think.
Absolutely. Itís emotion vs. logic and understanding.
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      03-29-2023, 07:25 AM   #1725
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Synthetic fuels are not gonna work, way, way too expensive.

I keep saying it, the solution where "everyone wins" is they allow PHEV's. This way those who simply cannot use a full blown EV have something to buy and a at the same time the governments can claim they are "all electric". This is what has happened in Canada and I can see it happening elsewhere.

PHEV's will retain a good chunk of the market.
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      03-29-2023, 07:47 AM   #1726
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Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
Synthetic fuels are not gonna work, way, way too expensive.

I keep saying it, the solution where "everyone wins" is they allow PHEV's. This way those who simply cannot use a full blown EV have something to buy and a at the same time the governments can claim they are "all electric". This is what has happened in Canada and I can see it happening elsewhere.

PHEV's will retain a good chunk of the market.
That definitely can be a great solution until they can create the infrastructure (tens of thousands of more charging stations) to support EV cars and also improve upon technology for these vehicles as far as charging time and distance. I think you have a good idea. Also, just save face on the part of the people that are pushing this so hard, they should probably create more nuclear power plants to produce all this electricity, so we are not just creating carbon emissions somewhere else and try to hide it in EVís.
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      03-29-2023, 08:06 AM   #1727
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I heard its gunna rain after 2035
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      03-29-2023, 10:17 AM   #1728
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
My opinion on the ideal solution is a series hybrid EV (SPHEV) like the Chevy Volt, or just a series hybrid. Develop a special tuned ICE for max combustion efficiency and light weight since it is not connected to the drive wheels. Better yet make it diesel so it can run on all different mixes of diesel fuel, from crude to Micky D's fries oil. It would need a small battery for peak energy needs, but you get a much lighter vehicle, efficient burn of carbon fuel with more energy going to the tire contact patch vs. waste heat. And no loss of range in the wintertime along with free cabin heat.

This supports the natural slow growth of the electrical grid, doesnít upset the petrochemical industry, and keeps jet fuel and heating oil at a reasonable price. But what do I know? I'm not a politician...
You make sense, its why it will never happen

But 2035 though
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      03-29-2023, 11:58 AM   #1729
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hydrogen powered cars will be the future i'd bet
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      03-29-2023, 12:36 PM   #1730
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hydrogen powered cars will be the future i'd bet
That's about as likely as nuclear fusion in the next 20 years.
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      03-29-2023, 12:48 PM   #1731
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      03-29-2023, 01:45 PM   #1732
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i drive whatever I want. both EV and petrol.

climate change won't kill you.

AI will do that first https://edition.cnn.com/2023/03/29/t...ers/index.html
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      03-29-2023, 02:40 PM   #1733
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patton250 View Post
My well thought out and written example flew right over his head but I like your explanation also. Welfare is a subsidy. Charging an individual, a company, or a corporation less taxes is NOT a subsidy. He doesn’t seem to be able to understand this. But this is how half our government and all the media has trained the masses over the last 50 years. How else could they say that even know the top 10 percent of income earners pay well over 50% of all taxes they still are not paying their fair share? Absolutely laughable yet people believe it.
I'll take the same tone.

Okay Boomer!
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      03-29-2023, 05:33 PM   #1734
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Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox View Post
I'll take the same tone.

Okay Boomer!
Iím gen x
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      03-29-2023, 08:37 PM   #1735
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Comeonman, relax with the Boomer shit. Lol. But you did entirely miss Patton's point. He articulated the issue quite clearly, and you translated it into "outright theft". Patton wasn't talking about the legality of Mob protection fees, but rather the rate of change of the fee, which is analogous to my point about lowering the tax rate; its not subsidizing anything, it's just less taxes.
The mob taking $500/month is theft. Or are we now equating the mob to the government?

You know what I don't care anymore. You guys continue saying the same shit about EVs you've saying to each other for the last 80 pages.
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      03-30-2023, 04:07 AM   #1736
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      03-30-2023, 04:20 AM   #1737
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox View Post
The mob taking $500/month is theft. Or are we now equating the mob to the government?

You know what I don't care anymore. You guys continue saying the same shit about EVs you've saying to each other for the last 80 pages.
I certainly wasnít comparing them to government when I first responded to you with my analogy using the mob. I was merely trying to simplify it for you because you didnít seem to grasp the idea that itís not a subsidy when someone takes LESS from you. Itís only a subsidy when they take nothing and you have nothing and then they GIVE you something. Thatís a subsidy.

I will attach. See below. This should help you greatly. After reading this if youíre still confused, I canít help you anymore. Although Iím telling you itís news outlets and half of our government that have purposely confused you on this to begin with. The good news is you can do your own research and find out that they have been lying to you. Good luck.

subsidy
[ suhb-si-dee ]SHOW IPA


See synonyms for: subsidy / subsidies on Thesaurus.com
📙 Middle School Level
noun, plural sub∑si∑dies.
a direct pecuniary aid furnished by a government to a private industrial undertaking, a charity organization, or the like.
a sum paid, often in accordance with a treaty, by one government to another to secure some service in return.
a grant or contribution of money.
money formerly granted by the English Parliament to the crown for special needs.
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      03-30-2023, 11:05 AM   #1738
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That's about as likely as nuclear fusion in the next 20 years.
We can only hope!
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