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      03-19-2023, 02:21 PM   #1673
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Most people donít want to own any car outside the warranty period, BEV or otherwise. Donít think that is a big concern for most.
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      03-19-2023, 02:30 PM   #1674
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
Most people donít want to own any car outside the warranty period, BEV or otherwise. Donít think that is a big concern for most.
Accept I think most people who buy cars aren't buying new, they buy used. Who wants to buy a used EV with the ticking time bomb of a battery replacement. I don't know if there is much of a market for used EV's yet as they are a relatively new commodity but I suspect the market isn't great and is likely to get worse as more are traded in. Maybe I'm off the mark.
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      03-19-2023, 04:35 PM   #1675
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Originally Posted by Sedoy View Post
My biggest problem with EVs is the battery/drivetrain replacement outside of the warranty period. There are just not enough specialists (outside of official service) in most areas to correctly perform diagnostics and replacement, plus some parts are super expensive. Judging by Telsa forums older Model S with over 100K are definitely a ticking bomb, some battery pack versions are better than the over ones, but $20K battery replacement is not something very uncommon. So I'm OK with oil changes and brakes at least for now...
Maybe, no idea as I've never owned a car with 100k miles. The Tesla battery and drive unit warranty is 8 years 120k miles. That's longer than any car I've ever owned. Now if I was in the market for 10 year old cars with 100k miles... I guess I would have to take that into consideration.

As for oil changes and brakes, I'm talking about the time and hassle factor. Not the money.
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      03-19-2023, 04:45 PM   #1676
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
Most people donít want to own any car outside the warranty period, BEV or otherwise. Donít think that is a big concern for most.
Exactly. Excuses out the balloon knot in this thread lmaoooooo
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      03-19-2023, 04:50 PM   #1677
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Throwing in buying a used car instead to save more money is a false argument since I'm comparing new to new purchase. But most normal socio-economic people buying a new car do consider operating cost of gasoline as part of the purchase decision, so MPG does matter to them.

In mid 2022 when I bought my New Bronco, I compared it to the only EV equivalent SUV I'd consider, which was a Ford Mach E. In 2022 the Mach E was not eligible for the tax credit of $7,500, so at the 100,000 mile mark, the Bronco was $877 more than the Mach E. At just 50,000 miles the Bronco was ahead at $5,800 less than the Mach E. 50,000 miles is probably all I drive the Bronco before they take my keys away. The Bronco with a manual transmission is about as analog as you can get in 2022 for a vehicle built by a mainstream manufacturer, which is what I wanted.
I'm not arguing anything other than buying an EV to save money is probably a dumb idea in most cases. Honestly the only time I ever hear about people buying an EV to save money are people who already WANT an EV and are just trying to justify the purchase.

ME myself personally would buy a used corolla or similar if I wanted to save money. Again not comparing it to your math, just saying that's what I would do. If I wanted to save money and buy new I would still just buy the cheapest new Japanese car I could get and drive it as long as possible.
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      03-19-2023, 07:01 PM   #1678
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
Most people don’t want to own any car outside the warranty period, BEV or otherwise. Don’t think that is a big concern for most.
this is a massive problem. 6/7 cars in my house have over 100k...3 over 200k.


typical money wasting idea. let me spend more money on something new so it doesn't break then spend little fixing LOL

Last edited by G35POPPEDMYCHERRY; 03-19-2023 at 07:21 PM..
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      03-19-2023, 08:23 PM   #1679
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Shhh don't tell them the secrets

More cheap barely used cars is good!
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      03-19-2023, 09:39 PM   #1680
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G35POPPEDMYCHERRY View Post
this is a massive problem. 6/7 cars in my house have over 100k...3 over 200k.


typical money wasting idea. let me spend more money on something new so it doesn't break then spend little fixing LOL
Most people don't have a lift and the full tools necessary to do the repairs to keep an older car viable as the miles start to rack up. Example, my Honda pilot was going through suspension bushings yearly...then there was the steering rack, shocks, those wear items start to add up big time. With a lift and tools, you can keep them running relatively easily....but without, after a point it gets to be fairly impractical. It's almost never going to be a good idea to buy a new car...as in a brand new car with new car markup, but people are going to do it to have something nice and new and if that's too much, dumping the old car for a nearly-new can often (depending on the times) can still be a lot less headaches.
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      03-19-2023, 09:59 PM   #1681
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RM7 View Post
Most people don't have a lift and the full tools necessary to do the repairs to keep an older car viable as the miles start to rack up. Example, my Honda pilot was going through suspension bushings yearly...then there was the steering rack, shocks, those wear items start to add up big time. With a lift and tools, you can keep them running relatively easily....but without, after a point it gets to be fairly impractical. It's almost never going to be a good idea to buy a new car...as in a brand new car with new car markup, but people are going to do it to have something nice and new and if that's too much, dumping the old car for a nearly-new can often (depending on the times) can still be a lot less headaches.
03 pilot 194 miles

only changed the oil every 4 months and the timing belt once. Im sure the suspension was shot but it still drives smooth.

edit: I do understand what you are saying, but lets be real here. people buy new things in the fear of them breaking down the road...the idea of money spent vs saved vs future cost is not very well connected.

also they just buy new things because the dealer scams them by giving them massive trade in, lowers their payments, puts them more underwater....but HEYYY I can't do math
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      03-20-2023, 07:56 AM   #1682
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G35POPPEDMYCHERRY View Post
this is a massive problem. 6/7 cars in my house have over 100k...3 over 200k.


typical money wasting idea. let me spend more money on something new so it doesn't break then spend little fixing LOL
I think a lot of people don't want to deal with the inconvenience of a car that consistently breaks. I had an E90 BMW at one point that always had something go wrong with it. I couldn't be happier when I got rid of it and had an always reliable ride. If it never breaks, then that's different but then a lot of people also don't want to be driving a 10 year old car as tech has changed so much.

And when you do have to repair it, do you have a trusted mechanic? Or are you going to the stealership?
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      03-20-2023, 08:34 AM   #1683
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It's true, I also suffered DDing an early model E90 in the rust belt. It only left me stuck at home twice with a flat tire and starter failure. But I am also able to do basic repairs unlike the majority of the public. The engine was nearly bulletproof but almost everything else around it was in a constant state of decay.

I understand people not wanting to drop their car off for every little thing that would go wrong with it.. and now cars are much more complicated.

Cars with LESS parts and LESS tech would be amazing, but I doubt they will make any "luddite" EVs.
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      03-20-2023, 12:18 PM   #1684
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
I think a lot of people don't want to deal with the inconvenience of a car that consistently breaks. I had an E90 BMW at one point that always had something go wrong with it. I couldn't be happier when I got rid of it and had an always reliable ride. If it never breaks, then that's different but then a lot of people also don't want to be driving a 10 year old car as tech has changed so much.

And when you do have to repair it, do you have a trusted mechanic? Or are you going to the stealership?
This. its not just about the hard costs but the soft costs as well. Needing to miss work, kids carpool, etc because your car is broken is a major inconvenience. Not to mention the logistics of needing to drop your car at the mechanic and find alternate transportation. If repair is needed on a car under warranty, you just drop it at the dealer and grab a loaner car with minimal inconvenience compared to footing the bill and logistics.
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      03-20-2023, 06:59 PM   #1685
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For many electric vehicles, there is no way to repair or assess even slightly damaged battery packs after accidents, forcing insurance companies to write off cars with few miles - leading to higher premiums and undercutting gains from going electric.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/s...050459910.html

Kind of interesting as some move to structural batteries, the battery will be suspect in even small collisions.
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      03-21-2023, 10:30 AM   #1686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murf the Surf View Post
And I say if it makes sense for you then great. But it making sense for you shouldn't be the grounds for the government forcing EV's on everyone else, many of whom it might not make sense for.

I think this and the other common sense arguments surrounding increased capacity and grid upgrades that constantly get posted here are what the underlying theme among a great many posters on this thread is.
This is my issue with them, the US is now like $33 trillion in debt and we are subsidizing cars for people?

But I have a lot of issues with what we subsidize. I don't have kids, why should I help pay for yours?
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      03-21-2023, 01:09 PM   #1687
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox View Post
This is my issue with them, the US is now like $33 trillion in debt and we are subsidizing cars for people?

But I have a lot of issues with what we subsidize. I don't have kids, why should I help pay for yours?
I assume you pay out of pocket for medical expenses and procedures?
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      03-21-2023, 01:34 PM   #1688
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I assume you pay out of pocket for medical expenses and procedures?
I don't think comparing an EV to repairing a broken bone or any other medical treatment is the same. Nobody needs an EV but everyone should have access to healthcare if they need it.
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      03-21-2023, 01:38 PM   #1689
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It has likely changed over the years up here, but it always left a bad taste when Teslas were introduced, getting a rebate on ~$100k purchase price vehicles. Avg. EV prices have become better over the years but the feeling is still there. (and the rebates have shrunk)
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      03-21-2023, 03:16 PM   #1690
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
Most people don’t want to own any car outside the warranty period, BEV or otherwise. Don’t think that is a big concern for most.
Not true. You just tend to hang out with more wealthy people that own cars under warranty. A vast majority of car owners in the US cannot afford new cars or cars with a warranty. God help someone with an EV that needs an out of warranty battery or motor replacement. For most, the EV will be mechanically totaled at that point.
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      03-21-2023, 04:40 PM   #1691
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Somewhat relevant to the topic...
https://youtube.com/watch?v=UcNl23qh...SIkaIECMiOmarE
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      03-21-2023, 07:18 PM   #1692
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Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
Not true. You just tend to hang out with more wealthy people that own cars under warranty. A vast majority of car owners in the US cannot afford new cars or cars with a warranty. God help someone with an EV that needs an out of warranty battery or motor replacement. For most, the EV will be mechanically totaled at that point.
Just because someone buys a new car or a car with a warranty doesn't mean they're wealthy. Leases, being able to roll over negative equity into the next car loan, sub prime auto loans, and loan terms that now go out to 7 years have made new cars accessible to many people; even those that have no business buying a new car.
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      03-22-2023, 05:10 AM   #1693
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
Not true. You just tend to hang out with more wealthy people that own cars under warranty. A vast majority of car owners in the US cannot afford new cars or cars with a warranty. God help someone with an EV that needs an out of warranty battery or motor replacement. For most, the EV will be mechanically totaled at that point.
Vast majority???? I think you should look those two words up in a dictionary. Once you fully understand the definition of each of those two words, especially put together the way you did in your sentence, then reread your sentence. Get back to me after that.
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      03-22-2023, 01:42 PM   #1694
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RM7 View Post
I assume you pay out of pocket for medical expenses and procedures?
I'm not sure how you're comparing my company paying for my health insurance as part of my compensation package to tax payers subsidizing cars for people.

I'm not trying to be a dick, but how did you come to this conclusion that the two were equivalent?
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