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      10-26-2022, 01:00 PM   #573
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When it's time to replace my daily beater in the next five or so years, I absolutely will consider EV along with the remaining ICE options. Objectively speaking, there are pros and cons to choosing either or, and as many have previously illustrated, have different weighted value based on one's personal circumstance. I find that an EV may suit my needs as my commute is a short local drive, and I plan to install solar panels at home at some point in time.

That being said, my F87 stays in my garage until I die (or something to that effect).
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      10-26-2022, 01:18 PM   #574
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
No ICE owner ever says, I have an EV as a second backup car for...
There's a house on my commute with 2 Mustang EVs in their driveway and one in the garage charging.
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      10-26-2022, 02:51 PM   #575
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chad86tsi View Post
In my life Iíve logged about 800,000 miles of driving. Iíd estimate the average mpg of all that travel at 20, and average refill at 20 gallons, so 400 miles between fillips. Thatís about 2000 fillips in my life. Not once have I ever been unsuccessful at getting the amount of gas I wanted on the first try. Never have I had to go somewhere else once I pulled in, and besides a few occasions of waiting in line, itís never taken more than 15 minutes. Typical is 7.

Switching to a drivetrain where my chances of charger success is anything less than 100% is a pretty big leap. Some charger audits have shown terrible success rates.
Except the reality of EV ownership is that 99% of charging is at home, where you're not spending any time on it, so you would have saved (2000 * .99 * 7 /60 =) 231 hours of your life if those 800,000 miles had been in an EV.

This is exactly the kind of thing people that haven't experienced EV life get wrong. They see videos of shitty public chargers, apply that experience to their frequency of getting gas, and think it's an issue that is a deal breaker. It's not-- in the 70,000 miles I was DDing an EV, I used a public charger <10 times and had an issue zero times.
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      10-26-2022, 03:25 PM   #576
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
Except the reality of EV ownership is that 99% of charging is at home, where you're not spending any time on it, so you would have saved (2000 * .99 * 7 /60 =) 231 hours of your life if those 800,000 miles had been in an EV.

This is exactly the kind of thing people that haven't experienced EV life get wrong. They see videos of shitty public chargers, apply that experience to their frequency of getting gas, and think it's an issue that is a deal breaker. It's not-- in the 70,000 miles I was DDing an EV, I used a public charger <10 times and had an issue zero times.
It has to do with range anxiety and what if's for those that are used to not giving range a second thought as to "how far can I drive today?, or "what are my chances".

Jankedy chargers are a thing, and they impact the use-case decision making of owning an EV. Jankedy gas pumps are not a thing. you are 10 for 10, So far I'm ~2000 for ~2000. In 800,000 miles I suspect your 100% success rate will fall, and in another 800,000 mine likely won't.

You also left out the times spent waiting on those 10 charges, and how full you got the battery to in that time. I always drain my tank and fill it every time.
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      10-26-2022, 03:42 PM   #577
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Renters face charging dilemma as U.S. cities move toward EVs


https://apnews.com/article/technolog...4cf7f81f7bc8a2
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      10-26-2022, 03:45 PM   #578
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
No ICE owner ever says, I have an EV as a second backup car for...
That's because it wouldn't make sense.
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      10-26-2022, 03:47 PM   #579
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
Except the reality of EV ownership is that 99% of charging is at home, where you're not spending any time on it, so you would have saved (2000 * .99 * 7 /60 =) 231 hours of your life if those 800,000 miles had been in an EV.

This is exactly the kind of thing people that haven't experienced EV life get wrong. They see videos of shitty public chargers, apply that experience to their frequency of getting gas, and think it's an issue that is a deal breaker. It's not-- in the 70,000 miles I was DDing an EV, I used a public charger <10 times and had an issue zero times.
This is exactly where EV advocates lose me. It's 99% charging at home RIGHT NOW for early adopters who have the money and space for a charger, but this will change DRASTICALLY if we are going to be at full adoption in 10 years or so, a monumental amount of people will need public charging and no one wants to build it at the clip we need.
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      10-26-2022, 03:51 PM   #580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
It's not-- in the 70,000 miles I was DDing an EV, I used a public charger <10 times and had an issue zero times.
Did you own a Tesla? I will say from first hand experience, Tesla network is far better than EA. EA being the leading CCS dc charging network. I went on roadtrip in a Taycan recently. EA chargers are far from reliable, the customer service is barely any help. 99% of them are in Walmart parking lots, of which are usually not in the nicest areas. Something needs to be done to charging infrastructure asap, before we really start this transition. I am not against EV's at all, owned model 3...but I won't pretend the non-Tesla networks are without issues. I want to be able to road trip my EV, they are quite enjoyable on long distances. But I want a reliable zero issue charging experience along the way.

Last edited by M3WC; 10-26-2022 at 04:03 PM..
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      10-26-2022, 03:55 PM   #581
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
This is exactly where EV advocates lose me. It's 99% charging at home RIGHT NOW for early adopters who have the money and space for a charger, but this will change DRASTICALLY if we are going to be at full adoption in 10 years or so, a monumental amount of people will need public charging and no one wants to build it at the clip we need.
Yes, over 80% of US population live in urban areas. Where most people won't have access to home chargers. "Just charge at home"...is not going to be a solution.
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      10-26-2022, 04:08 PM   #582
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uyyyu09 View Post
I love the video
you know he's bought a few more EVs immediately after that video
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      10-26-2022, 04:11 PM   #583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
No ICE owner ever says, I have an EV as a second backup car for...
i have a 400hp M340i
a 300hp Subaru
a 300hp Toyota
a backup 100hp Nissan Leaf that can barely do 50 miles, thought I'd try it as it cost me nothing to buy

the car i use 99% of the time? Nissan Leaf, coz it's better than the others in my hilly town of 100,000 peeps.

when i travel long distance alone - M340i 100%
with the family - i can't blast the M340i around so I take the Subaru or Toyota and they can spit all over it

number of time and hours taking the ICE to dealers for broken engines, transmissions, oil changes, oxygen sensor malfunction, cat converter issue, they put the wrong oil, etc - thousands. as i type the Toyota is waiting for an engine transplant, it's wrecked on the inside - everything metal has stopped moving on one side of the V6! after 120,000 miles

number of hours spent taking the Leaf for a service or a fix - 0. and i'm not even counting $ maintenance and gas

is an EV fun? not as fun as ICE but for many people the plusses outweigh the minuses. obviously not suitable for everyone but it is for me. my holiday house is 150 miles away so most EVs will get me there without stopping. just need to find the right one now ...

are EV green - probably not. but they don't stink.
should the govt legislate EVs? probably not. but i'm not living my life held ransom by oil companies anymore!

Last edited by g21; 10-26-2022 at 04:30 PM..
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      10-26-2022, 05:18 PM   #584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
This is exactly where EV advocates lose me. It's 99% charging at home RIGHT NOW for early adopters who have the money and space for a charger, but this will change DRASTICALLY if we are going to be at full adoption in 10 years or so, a monumental amount of people will need public charging and no one wants to build it at the clip we need.
All those apartments, condos, and homes with maxed out electrical service. Or traveling to a motel or a friend or family members house. None of this is a problem for ICE's.

And then there's the matter of families with teenaged drivers. Imagine needing to charge 3 or 4 cars at one home because you have multiple EV's and multiple drivers.

there is more to the equation than EV good, ICE bad.
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      10-26-2022, 08:06 PM   #585
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Except the oil companies touch practically every part of your life, not just the part when you go to the fuel station. Reducing the need for gasoline raises the cost of all the other distillates cracked out of a barrel of crude oil. People who do EV do not see the entirety of the impact.
Fact: when we first started distilling petroleum, we used to dump gasoline into the rivers because prior to gasoline internal combustion engines, it was otherwise useless. Too volatile for heating fuel, and not enough detonation stability for other uses at the time.

Yet it's still in that raw pulled out of the ground oil stuff, take it or leave it.
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      10-26-2022, 08:43 PM   #586
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I bought a 22 Tesla S Plaid, brilliant car, absolutely love it to the point that I drive it over my 991.2 GTS and various 700hp M cars. Have convinced many that ICE is vintage. Sorry but I’m hooked. My friend said tome ‘’thanks for making my ice so boring” ��
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      10-27-2022, 05:32 AM   #587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sy1616 View Post
I bought a 22 Tesla S Plaid, brilliant car, absolutely love it to the point that I drive it over my 991.2 GTS and various 700hp M cars. Have convinced many that ICE is vintage. Sorry but I’m hooked. My friend said tome ‘’thanks for making my ice so boring” ��
Nice!!! Post pics of the plaid!
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      10-27-2022, 12:42 PM   #588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
No ICE owner ever says, I have an EV as a second backup car for...
Sure they do.

If you live in an area with jankity electricity, and you have solar panels, the EV is PERFECT for that. Lots of places in the U.S. fit this.

Cause what gas owners ALWAYS don't say, is that when the power goes down, so do the gas stations. When's the last time you used a hand crank to pump the gas? Yeah, I didn't think so.

Arguing about this is kinda silly. There will be plenty of roles for both kinds of cars in the future. Plenty of places that EV's aren't the best choice. But Australia proved that even diesel power generators charging EV's was more efficient that gas vehicles. No technology really ever "replaces" any other technology. It can occassionally over time, but not at first.

Shawn
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      10-27-2022, 01:06 PM   #589
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnhayes View Post
Sure they do.

If you live in an area with jankity electricity, and you have solar panels, the EV is PERFECT for that. Lots of places in the U.S. fit this.

Cause what gas owners ALWAYS don't say, is that when the power goes down, so do the gas stations. When's the last time you used a hand crank to pump the gas? Yeah, I didn't think so.

Arguing about this is kinda silly. There will be plenty of roles for both kinds of cars in the future. Plenty of places that EV's aren't the best choice. But Australia proved that even diesel power generators charging EV's was more efficient that gas vehicles. No technology really ever "replaces" any other technology. It can occassionally over time, but not at first.

Shawn
Last week. Pumped some E98. I don't need the fancy electric one.
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      10-27-2022, 03:15 PM   #590
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnhayes View Post
Sure they do.

If you live in an area with jankity electricity, and you have solar panels, the EV is PERFECT for that. Lots of places in the U.S. fit this.

Cause what gas owners ALWAYS don't say, is that when the power goes down, so do the gas stations. When's the last time you used a hand crank to pump the gas? Yeah, I didn't think so.
I know in places like Florida, that is Hurricane prone. Since 2005 gas stations were required to have transfer switch and generator to keep gas pumping after storms.
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      10-27-2022, 03:16 PM   #591
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
My statement was a counter to most EV owners who state they rely on an ICE for long distance automobile travel.

But just for discussion sake, I've been driving for over 40 years and never have I not been able to get gas when a storm has knocked out the power at my home. Commercial power is rarely knocked off line. If one is prepared for such instances he can keep 5 - 10 or more gallons of gas stored at home and recharge his ICE in 5 minutes and recover 300 miles of range. Some stations have critical power backup to run fuel pumps. Again, my comment, a bit toung in cheek as it was, wasn't about recharging during a power outage.

In the case of the USA, California and possibly 17 other states are forcing adoption of EV starting in 2035. As a citizen of the US and a citizen of a state that decided to follow California emissions standards, I never voted for any politician who ran on a platform of banning internal combustion automobiles. Banning ICE has serious near-term societal consequences that I'm not willing to accept without debate in the US Congress, where such important national decisions should be reviewed and voted on.
Kind of amusing that it's always "states' rights" until it's something someone doesn't agree with.
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      10-28-2022, 07:55 AM   #592
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Quote:
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If we are going to allow government agencies to dictate emission standards, in the case of a mass-produced automobile, having 50 different emission standards at the state level makes zero practical sense because it would be impossible for auto manufactures to build 50 different versions of engine emission controls to meet each states' emission standards in any economic fashion.
Honestly from the outside looking in I am always staggered how your entire country really runs this way. The amount of chopping up of the country you've done is incredibly inefficient for a place always banging on about small government.
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      10-28-2022, 08:29 AM   #593
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I think the market place will take care of it. As soon as electric cars getter much cheaper than ice cars Americans will make the switch. And that time is coming fast. I have two ice cars and a Tesla 3 and guess what car we fight over to use. I don't know why people are upset other than the dealerships. EV's are better and cheaper to run but they are still just cars.
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      10-28-2022, 10:46 AM   #594
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP View Post
Nice!!! Post pics of the plaid!
You have never seen a Tesla before? They should have named it "Plain" as opposed to "Plaid".

When I drop my kids off at school, it looks a bit like this:

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