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      08-18-2021, 11:00 AM   #23
RobbiZ4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryanhoag View Post
Looks like it's paired…

Part numbers:
54377227397 Left
54377227398 Right

Are these correct?

Should both be replaced at the same time?
NO.
NO.


The correct part is "Base plate right", 54377192950


It's position 6 on the following chart:
https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=54_0413
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      08-18-2021, 11:05 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryanhoag View Post
@RobbiZ4

How many microswitches are there in total?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobbiZ4 View Post
2 plus 2 plus 2 plus 1 plus 2 plus 2 (front to back)
Forgot exactly this one Brian fights against:

2 plus 1 plus 2 plus 2 plus 1 plus 2 plus 2 (front to back)
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      08-18-2021, 04:43 PM   #25
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Thanks for all of your input RobbiZ4 ! I have not tried any grease or WD40. Is it easily accessible? How easy is it to replace if it's simply bad?
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      08-18-2021, 05:11 PM   #26
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Also. What does that microswitch trigger or detect?
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      08-19-2021, 02:28 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryanhoag View Post
Also. What does that microswitch trigger or detect?
As it's name says:
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryanhoag View Post
Microswitch 'cowl panel reached'
It detects the arrival or opening of the front roof shell on the windscreen.
On the black 41-pole plug X13039 of the CTM its connected to the pins 27 and 35.

Documentation:
http://e89.zpost.com/forums/attachme...8&d=1335371623
https://e89.zpost.com/forums/attachm...2&d=1477456021

In the circuit diagram on page 18 you can see, that switch no. 5 containts two resistors. Generally it's 560 ohms in a row an 2.200 ohms in parallel to the switch. You can measure 560 ohms if the switch is closed and 2.760 ohms, if the switch is open. Everything else like zero ohms (there is a short in the wiring before the microswitch) or infinite (a wire is broken/interrupted) is a failure.


BMW Z4 E89 Convertible Base Plate Riught 7192950
https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/par...&mg=&q=7192950
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Last edited by RobbiZ4; 08-19-2021 at 02:43 AM..
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      08-19-2021, 10:55 PM   #28
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Awesome. Thanks Robbi!
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      08-20-2021, 06:34 PM   #29
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RobbiZ4 is the CTM plug and play? Or would a new CTM need to be coded by the dealership?

Thanks!
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      08-21-2021, 08:01 AM   #30
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There are 2 generations of CTMs in use:
2009-spring 2012
2012 til 2019 (the youngest I've seen)

The newer ones only work fine on a hydraulic pump with 4 solenoids on top.
Our elder pumps mounted until spring 2012 only have 3 solenoids.

If you buy a new one from stock, only BMW can re-code it for an elder Z4.
If you buy a used one from i.e. eBay, you have to look at the 4 digits timestamp with WWYY (i.e. 4711 for week 47 on 2011).
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      08-21-2021, 06:14 PM   #31
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RobbiZ4 so if I have a newer Z4 (build date 11/2012) and bought a new CTM or used CTM from a Z4 with the 4 solenoid system, it would not need coding?

Am I understanding you correctly? Thanks!
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      08-22-2021, 01:46 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryanhoag View Post
RobbiZ4 so if I have a newer Z4 (build date 11/2012)...
You have to count the numbers of the solenoids on top of your pump! 3 or 4?

That's the only criteria, not a date.



In general, there is no coding required.
I always keep 2 spare CTM's in my car for test purposes on other Z4's: an elder one for 3 solenoids and a newer one for 4 solenoid pumps.


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The production week of this CTM is 2812 (week 28/2012). All hardware versions HW 003 AND a software version beginning with this SW number 6.50.00 or higher are designed for the hydraulic pump with 4 solenoids.

Last edited by RobbiZ4; 08-22-2021 at 12:53 PM..
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      08-28-2021, 01:46 AM   #33
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Any update on it?
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      08-30-2021, 07:34 AM   #34
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Haven't received the new CTM to swap yet. I will keep you posted!
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      10-19-2021, 01:41 AM   #35
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Long overdue follow up. I swapped out the CTM. The roof would not function with the new CTM. I assume that means it needs coding from the dealership. Not going to resort to that yet as I despise my local BMW dealership. And, I think a bad CTM is probably unlikely to be my issue.
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      10-20-2021, 04:43 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobbiZ4 View Post
You have to count the numbers of the solenoids on top of your pump! 3 or 4?
That's the only criteria, not a date.
Not yet any answer.

Please provide photos of both CTM labels, then I'm able to check and advise. There is no coding required.
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      10-20-2021, 04:54 PM   #37
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In general I'm wondering about your steps to solve the issue:

This thread was started with a hall sensor discussion. After sharing more details, you started to order a new(?) or used)?) CTM.

Up to now I can't follow your steps as the fundamentals are missing.
What is working/moving?
What happens while moving?
What or where does it stop?
Did you already replace the 2 salmon relays?

The fault codes sometimes are misleading and partially wrong!
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      10-20-2021, 08:33 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobbiZ4 View Post
In general I'm wondering about your steps to solve the issue:

This thread was started with a hall sensor discussion. After sharing more details, you started to order a new(?) or used)?) CTM.

Up to now I can't follow your steps as the fundamentals are missing.
What is working/moving?
What happens while moving?
What or where does it stop?
Did you already replace the 2 salmon relays?

The fault codes sometimes are misleading and partially wrong!

Hey RobbiZ4. I'm not surprised you can't follow the thought process. What started as a semi-methodical process has digressed into groping in the dark for answers and involves more than just this thread.

The issue began in 2019. I have 2 videos here:



In this video, first the glass stacks on top of the roof and the panel unlocks from the windshield but fails to lift and drop back into the trunk.

Then, in it's "failed" stacked position, I simply re-initiate opening with the fob and it completes the opening normally.

Then I close it and it closes normally.

Then I open it again and it opens completely normally.



In this video, the glass stacks on top of the roof and the panel unlocks from the windshield and fails to lift. I assist it a bit and it completes the rest of the opening sequence normally.

It then closes normally.


After this behavior began, I replaced the salmon relays - Problem persisted.

I tried a basic code reader. No codes.

I took it to an independent shop. No codes. But they took out the pump and cylinders and sent them to TopHydraulics for reconditioning. - Problem persisted.

In 2020, I just tolerated the issue and assisted the top opening when it malfunctioned.

Fast forward to 2021, I decide to revisit the top issue as it seems to be occurring more frequently.

Nobody in the USA that I can find has a diagnostic tool that can pinpoint what is wrong. I reluctantly took it to my local BMW dealer where they replaced the harness. - Problem persisted.

I reproduced the problem multiple times at the dealership and their equipment told them nothing. No codes whatsoever.

I managed to pull one code using BimmerLink which is: A694

This code points to the microswitch in the right side of the windshield. I don't know if this switch is truly the issue or if the system just thinks it's the issue because the roof is not lifting away from it when it should.

To me, I thought it could be a hydraulic pressure issue of unknown cause (pump and cylinders should be in good condition and new harness and why would it only be intermittent?). It could be an issue with the microswitch in the windshield. It could be an issue with the hall sensor in the roof package. Or it could be a bad signal from the CTM.

I chose to swap the CTM simply because I could do it easily myself in a few minutes without having to go back to the dreaded dealership. I hoped that it would not need coding. I felt that the CTM was unlikely to be the issue but figured at least I could check it off my list. Unfortunately it needs coding, so I wasn't really able to rule it out.


Let me know what you think.

Last edited by bryanhoag; 10-20-2021 at 09:12 PM..
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      10-21-2021, 05:47 PM   #39
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I have a little input about the CTM. I once saw on U-tube a video, by Diagnostic Dan. He took the plug apart on the CTM, and while moving the top up or down took reading off the input, and output of the plug while plugged in. Here in the States, it is almost impossible to get the pin out on this module. I think the same module is used in the 2008 BMW 328 IC, or E93. If so, that car is documented in a Bentley Manual. Possibly the pin out may be the same. Not knowing exactly what BMW programs into the CTM is a question. On that plug on the CTM, is all the sensor inputs, just knowing the exact input pin# for a sensor, and then how the CTM processes the signal and then the pin# where the signal exits the module, will answer plenty of top problems.
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      10-21-2021, 11:39 PM   #40
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Hi Bryan,


Thanks for your summary.


On the first video, the issue is very clear for me.
The two microswitches coupling lock have to be replaced, typical issue after 10 years.
That is one of my recommendations in the German ZRoadster forum.

The 2nd video indeed gives hints on a weak hydraulic pressure, I also saw on another Z4 in the past. Try to fasten the brass screw on top of the hydraulic pump, that is directing to the front of the car.
But be carfully, these "screws" are hydraulic valves, that can be opened and closed to short the hydraulic lines.
It can be opened with a max. of 2 turns, then closed again.

Last edited by RobbiZ4; 10-22-2021 at 12:52 AM..
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      10-21-2021, 11:59 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surfwooder View Post
I have a little input about the CTM. I once saw on U-tube a video, by Diagnostic Dan. He took the plug apart on the CTM, and while moving the top up or down took reading off the input, and output of the plug while plugged in. Here in the States, it is almost impossible to get the pin out on this module. I think the same module is used in the 2008 BMW 328 IC, or E93. If so, that car is documented in a Bentley Manual. Possibly the pin out may be the same. Not knowing exactly what BMW programs into the CTM is a question. On that plug on the CTM, is all the sensor inputs, ...
To be honest, each detail of the above written is not correct.

Diagnose Dan may be a showmaster, but should NOT be taken as a reference to diagnose E89 roofs!

The issue on his named video is a very special one, that in most cases is much more complexer to solve. At least, broken wires in the rear roof shell is the direction, he's pointing to.

Doesn't help Bryan.

The named plug keeps some, but not ALL sensor lines, that orchestrate the roof opening and closing processes.

Your summary instead is correct: knowing ALL pinouts of these CTM's is the key to successful diagnostics.

Only my Y3 Diagnostic Tool can display all sensors as well as actors (motors, relays,...) graphically on a live chart.


Have a look at it:
https://z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=129048

Last edited by RobbiZ4; 10-22-2021 at 12:17 AM..
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      10-22-2021, 01:48 AM   #42
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Top Hall Sensor Question

Thanks RobbiZ4 !

Those 2 micro switches look like a pain to replace and probably well above my skill set.

The issue is the same in both videos.

In the first, I'm trying to show that when the top malfunctions and I do not assist it by hand, I can simply re-initiate opening and it opens fine.

In the second video, I'm trying to show that if I assist it by hand, it will open the rest of the way fine and never show the red malfunction light.

Why do you think the top opens 100% normally sometimes but not others? It seems a hydraulic pressure issue would produce the same issue every time.

Thoughts?
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      10-22-2021, 11:45 PM   #43
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Morning,

Try to fasten the brass screw, that is placed towards the front, a bit. It's a cone valve: if it's open (max. 2 turns), there is no or too less pressure on the hydraulic lines.
Try to open it and then close it completely.

The 2 micro switches have to be replaced, as they suffer on corrosion. Their exact timing is checked by the CTM and compaired against each other. If there is a small time difference between both when they switch, the CTM stops the pump or, as in your case, the pump continues to run too long.
The malfunctions of these 2 switches are responsible for about 50% of all roof issues.
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      Yesterday, 01:37 AM   #44
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Thanks RobbiZ4. I'll start with the valve and then give some thought to the microswitches.

Anyone know of a reputable top mechanic on the East Coast or Southeast?
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