New 2009 2010 BMW Z4 - ZPOST
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Today's Posts


Go Back   New 2009 2010 BMW Z4 - ZPOST > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > General BMW News and Cars Discussion

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      04-17-2024, 08:16 PM   #1
lowrydr310
Robot
2029
Rep
2,413
Posts

Drives: 2006 330i, 2007 E93 335i
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Souhtrne Califniora

iTrader: (1)

What the heck happened to BMW?

I'm not even talking about styling, though you could argue they continue to go down the wrong direction in that area too. I get it, they need to push boundaries. In some cases their 'edgy' initially unaccepted design language becomes mainstream and eventually looks good. (Though certain models like the pre-LCI E65 Bangle 7 will never look good no matter how hard one tries.)

I'm talking about the driving dynamics, and even the interior styling and materials. I've driven all sorts of non-M BMWs and they all have that distinct BMW feel. Excellent handling. Nice interior that is definitively BMW, like if you were to hide the badges and put a stranger in it, you'd still know it's a BMW.

I recently rented a G21 LCI 320d for a week. It definitely looks like a BMW, and I even LIKE the styling of the wagon over the sedan. But driving the thing? Sure it was comfortable and no real complaints, just that it didn't *feel* like a BMW. You could put Kia badges inside this thing and I wouldn't know the difference. Just soft and boring. No different than any other car on the market. No soul. I know the F30 gets a lot of hate for starting that downward path, but a friend of mine has a F30 328i with Dinan suspension bits and even that car felt more BMW like than the current G20.

The engine was nice, plenty of power for everyday driving and I averaged just over 50MPG though it was very light driving, nothing sporting or aggressive. They say nobody wants small Diesels in the USA... I do.
Appreciate 8
NickyC19170.50
///MPhatic15213.50
eugenebmw2137.00
Germanauto9837.50
Mosaud19984122.50
      04-17-2024, 09:00 PM   #2
MJBO
Lieutenant Colonel
MJBO's Avatar
Australia
3375
Rep
1,732
Posts

Drives: 2023 G81 M3 Touring
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Melbourne, Australia

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Buy something else then.

I love my G81, it's insanely good.
Appreciate 4
M_Torx438.00
M4Lou906.50
      04-17-2024, 09:14 PM   #3
NickyC
Lieutenant General
NickyC's Avatar
19171
Rep
11,175
Posts

Drives: M4 CS. Former G82, x2 F82, F80
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Jacked out of my mind

iTrader: (23)

They're just heavy, very ugly cars now (for the most part). It is a shame.
Appreciate 11
5ABIVT49.00
alex23643432.00
Honda330.50
M_Torx438.00
Mosaud19984122.50
ried811.00
      04-17-2024, 09:23 PM   #4
Clark_Kent
Lieutenant Colonel
Clark_Kent's Avatar
2302
Rep
1,916
Posts

Drives: Retired
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Atlanta, GA

iTrader: (0)

BMW has evolved into a mass market auto manufacturer. At this juncture they're not much different than Volkswagen or Toyota in the sense that they're widely available, offer several vehicle options, and are designed for mass appeal. While I enjoyed the few M cars I owned, I will never buy another BMW.
Appreciate 3
335i54n349.50
      04-17-2024, 09:35 PM   #5
pikkagtr
Go Spurs Go
pikkagtr's Avatar
3978
Rep
2,912
Posts

Drives: '22 GR Z4 Coup '06 Z4M Rdster
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (-1)

Albert Biermann left M
so that last GOOD BMW was the F80
now they are just churning out heavy bloated boats with lots of power to go straight
a face only a blind mother can love
the best BMW on sale currently wears a Toyota GR Badge
Appreciate 14
NickyC19170.50
335i54n349.50
Merlin_83486.50
NWH8345.00
5ABIVT49.00
alex23643432.00
MmmmmM22651.00
Mosaud19984122.50
ried811.00
      04-17-2024, 10:31 PM   #6
lowrydr310
Robot
2029
Rep
2,413
Posts

Drives: 2006 330i, 2007 E93 335i
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Souhtrne Califniora

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJBO View Post
Buy something else then.

I love my G81, it's insanely good.
Ah but that's an M car. They're different... though I haven't personally driven one yet. I'm talking the non-M cars.

Though that 320d had M badges everywhere... on the fenders, door sills, dash,
Appreciate 0
      04-17-2024, 10:52 PM   #7
MJBO
Lieutenant Colonel
MJBO's Avatar
Australia
3375
Rep
1,732
Posts

Drives: 2023 G81 M3 Touring
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Melbourne, Australia

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by pikkagtr View Post
Albert Biermann left M
so that last GOOD BMW was the F80
now they are just churning out heavy bloated boats with lots of power to go straight

Tell me you haven't driven a G8x without telling me you haven't driven a G8x
Appreciate 2
M_Torx438.00
Devils41295.50
      04-18-2024, 08:20 AM   #8
///MPhatic
The Seeker
///MPhatic's Avatar
15214
Rep
3,783
Posts

Drives: OG M2 • Exige
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: USA

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2018 BMW M2  [8.33]
The entire G-series is off the table IMO.

Gone are the glory days of beauty and driving dynamics, it's all fat-cat numbers now. Keep it.
Appreciate 4
Mavus2253.50
Nkc1606.50
      04-18-2024, 08:23 AM   #9
pikkagtr
Go Spurs Go
pikkagtr's Avatar
3978
Rep
2,912
Posts

Drives: '22 GR Z4 Coup '06 Z4M Rdster
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (-1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJBO View Post
Tell me you haven't driven a G8x without telling me you haven't driven a G8x
I've owned 2 F80s, my current daily is an E92 MSport. I test drive the G80 at the thermal performance center and hated it. 4000 lbs is a mustang not an M car
Is it fast? Of course! Does it handle well and hide it's weight ? Yes
Is it dynamically a good car? Not even close
The F87 vs G87 is a great example of where BMW went wrong
Appreciate 13
noemon207.50
///MPhatic15213.50
NWH8345.00
5ABIVT49.00
Mavus2253.50
Nkc1606.50
ried811.00
      04-18-2024, 08:33 AM   #10
Clark_Kent
Lieutenant Colonel
Clark_Kent's Avatar
2302
Rep
1,916
Posts

Drives: Retired
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Atlanta, GA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJBO View Post
Tell me you haven't driven a G8x without telling me you haven't driven a G8x
The M cars aren't exempt. BMW has losers up and down the product lineup. It's a shame really. Oh well, lucky for me I'm not a brand loyalist. I happily took my monies elsewhere.
__________________
Retired: 2018 BMW M3 CS, 2018 BMW M3 ZCP, 2016 BMW M3

Last edited by Clark_Kent; 04-18-2024 at 12:26 PM..
Appreciate 1
dizz81521.00
      04-18-2024, 08:34 AM   #11
RigaTony1982
Colonel
RigaTony1982's Avatar
3392
Rep
2,387
Posts

Drives: 2023 BMW Z4 M40i
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Chicago

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowrydr310 View Post
Ah but that's an M car. They're different... though I haven't personally driven one yet. I'm talking the non-M cars.

Though that 320d had M badges everywhere... on the fenders, door sills, dash,
My Z4 is a non-M car, and is my favorite car I’ve owned. Think it really depends on the model. I could see a 320 being targeted at just someone who wants a BMW badge.
Appreciate 2
lowrydr3102029.00
orcuttfox181.50
      04-18-2024, 08:49 AM   #12
noemon
Private First Class
United Kingdom
208
Rep
164
Posts

Drives: BMW F80 M3
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Cambridge

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pikkagtr View Post
I've owned 2 F80s, my current daily is an E92 MSport. I test drive the G80 at the thermal performance center and hated it. 4000 lbs is a mustang not an M car
Is it fast? Of course! Does it handle well and hide it's weight ? Yes
Is it dynamically a good car? Not even close
The F87 vs G87 is a great example of where BMW went wrong
From the new gen, only the M2 is where it's at.

I hated both the G80 and the F90. Too big, bulky and heavy. The F10 was that too but it did not break your ribs pretending to be a sports car like the F90 does, hence why the M550 is actually the equivalent to the F10 M5, .ie a proper GT car and not a frankenstein that is neither a GT, nor a family car, nor a sports car.
Appreciate 0
      04-18-2024, 09:12 AM   #13
Chihuahua
Brigadier General
Chihuahua's Avatar
4425
Rep
3,351
Posts

Drives: E30 329iS, E65 Alpina B7
Join Date: May 2012
Location: ATL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowrydr310 View Post
I'm not even talking about styling, though you could argue they continue to go down the wrong direction in that area too. I get it, they need to push boundaries. In some cases their 'edgy' initially unaccepted design language becomes mainstream and eventually looks good. (Though certain models like the pre-LCI E65 Bangle 7 will never look good no matter how hard one tries.)

I'm talking about the driving dynamics, and even the interior styling and materials. I've driven all sorts of non-M BMWs and they all have that distinct BMW feel. Excellent handling. Nice interior that is definitively BMW, like if you were to hide the badges and put a stranger in it, you'd still know it's a BMW.

I recently rented a G21 LCI 320d for a week. It definitely looks like a BMW, and I even LIKE the styling of the wagon over the sedan. But driving the thing? Sure it was comfortable and no real complaints, just that it didn't *feel* like a BMW. You could put Kia badges inside this thing and I wouldn't know the difference. Just soft and boring. No different than any other car on the market. No soul. I know the F30 gets a lot of hate for starting that downward path, but a friend of mine has a F30 328i with Dinan suspension bits and even that car felt more BMW like than the current G20.

The engine was nice, plenty of power for everyday driving and I averaged just over 50MPG though it was very light driving, nothing sporting or aggressive. They say nobody wants small Diesels in the USA... I do.
Weight, turbos, and electric steering. I don't necessarily blame BMW though, they have to comply with regulations that are getting more and more strict. If you want the true-blue BMW experience, go buy anything that has an EXX chassis designation.
Appreciate 4
eugenebmw2137.00
lowrydr3102029.00
Mavus2253.50
      04-18-2024, 09:12 AM   #14
mjj
First Lieutenant
658
Rep
348
Posts

Drives: 2025 M4 Comp Verde BR
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Home of #22

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark_Kent View Post
Thr M cars aren't exempt. BMW has losers up and down the product lineup. It's a shame really. Oh well, lucky for me I'm not a brand loyalist. I happily took my monies elsewhere.
What are you driving now?
Appreciate 0
      04-18-2024, 10:11 AM   #15
Clark_Kent
Lieutenant Colonel
Clark_Kent's Avatar
2302
Rep
1,916
Posts

Drives: Retired
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Atlanta, GA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjj View Post
What are you driving now?
Several cars, but for purposes of this discussion a Porsche GT car.
__________________
Retired: 2018 BMW M3 CS, 2018 BMW M3 ZCP, 2016 BMW M3
Appreciate 1
NickyC19170.50
      04-18-2024, 11:12 AM   #16
NickyC
Lieutenant General
NickyC's Avatar
19171
Rep
11,175
Posts

Drives: M4 CS. Former G82, x2 F82, F80
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Jacked out of my mind

iTrader: (23)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark_Kent View Post
Several cars, but for purposes of this discussion a Porsche GT car.
Yep, lots of F8X owners have moved away from BMW due to the recent G8X disappointments. If I ever grow tired of my M4 CS, I will likely look to other car brands as well for the first time in over 25 years. If m really bummed out about it as well because I’ve loved my BMWs (well, most of them anyway).
Appreciate 2
      04-18-2024, 11:42 AM   #17
swagon
Major General
swagon's Avatar
No_Country
13773
Rep
8,233
Posts

Drives: F80 6MT
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: .

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowrydr310 View Post
I'm not even talking about styling, though you could argue they continue to go down the wrong direction in that area too. I get it, they need to push boundaries. In some cases their 'edgy' initially unaccepted design language becomes mainstream and eventually looks good. (Though certain models like the pre-LCI E65 Bangle 7 will never look good no matter how hard one tries.)

I'm talking about the driving dynamics, and even the interior styling and materials. I've driven all sorts of non-M BMWs and they all have that distinct BMW feel. Excellent handling. Nice interior that is definitively BMW, like if you were to hide the badges and put a stranger in it, you'd still know it's a BMW.

I recently rented a G21 LCI 320d for a week. It definitely looks like a BMW, and I even LIKE the styling of the wagon over the sedan. But driving the thing? Sure it was comfortable and no real complaints, just that it didn't *feel* like a BMW. You could put Kia badges inside this thing and I wouldn't know the difference. Just soft and boring. No different than any other car on the market. No soul. I know the F30 gets a lot of hate for starting that downward path, but a friend of mine has a F30 328i with Dinan suspension bits and even that car felt more BMW like than the current G20.

The engine was nice, plenty of power for everyday driving and I averaged just over 50MPG though it was very light driving, nothing sporting or aggressive. They say nobody wants small Diesels in the USA... I do.
You drove a two-litre diesel station wagon and thought it was not sporty and aggressive enough???

Breaking news, base BMWs that are bought for fleet use or families are not as fun. Go drive an E36 316i and tell me you're having fun with the measly 75 kW and slow-ass steering.

That said, yes, the E90 is peak 3 Series. I have an G21 Alpina and I can tell you it's "fun" for an AWD two-tonne station wagon, but I do miss the E91 from a driving perspective still.

This thread here has of course steered into a chat about M cars only, which only take up a rather small percentage of sold BMWs.

G3x 5er, G05 X5, G2x 3er, they're all really great all-rounders - better than their predecessors in a lot of ways - though heavily dependent on how optioned they are. More than ever before whilst having to adhere to connectivity, safety and eco bullshit regulations and customer expectations.
__________________
Appreciate 2
lowrydr3102029.00
W///7772.00
      04-18-2024, 04:34 PM   #18
No one
Major
1098
Rep
1,429
Posts

Drives: F21 118i
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Undisclosed

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark_Kent View Post
Several cars, but for purposes of this discussion a Porsche GT car.
A Porsche Carrera GT? In this discussion that should mean Porsche lost it's way too, there's nowhere to run. And you took your monies there just because that amount would buy you a useless/ridiculous number of BMWs.
Appreciate 0
      04-18-2024, 05:17 PM   #19
lowrydr310
Robot
2029
Rep
2,413
Posts

Drives: 2006 330i, 2007 E93 335i
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Souhtrne Califniora

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by swagon View Post
You drove a two-litre diesel station wagon and thought it was not sporty and aggressive enough???

Breaking news, base BMWs that are bought for fleet use or families are not as fun. Go drive an E36 316i and tell me you're having fun with the measly 75 kW and slow-ass steering.

That said, yes, the E90 is peak 3 Series. I have an G21 Alpina and I can tell you it's "fun" for an AWD two-tonne station wagon, but I do miss the E91 from a driving perspective still.

This thread here has of course steered into a chat about M cars only, which only take up a rather small percentage of sold BMWs.

G3x 5er, G05 X5, G2x 3er, they're all really great all-rounders - better than their predecessors in a lot of ways - though heavily dependent on how optioned they are. More than ever before whilst having to adhere to connectivity, safety and eco bullshit regulations and customer expectations.
I've driven an e36 318 before and despite soft in terms of power delivery, the car and handling still felt very BMW-like. Had a F20 118i recently as well, VERY impressed with that car! Definitely not a powerhouse by any means, but still had the distinct BMW feel that I love. This G21 was very different from those. Not power but overall feel of the car, just felt bulky and soft, and more cramped inside than my E90.

I haven't given up completely. I'll do one of these performance driving events and I'm looking forward to trying G80 and G87...
Appreciate 0
      04-18-2024, 05:27 PM   #20
erickonphoenix
Captain
erickonphoenix's Avatar
2036
Rep
641
Posts

Drives: 2014 Gray 328xi Touring
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Houston TX

iTrader: (0)

Long time BMW owner

Our fleet is
1999 Toyota 4 Runner
1999 Toyota Camry
2004 Mercedes ML500
2014 BMW 328xi
2018 Honda Accord Sport

BMW closest rival is our Accord Sport and it's not even close. The Accord is a boat compared to this F30. I still prefer the steering on my E46 but it's still better than most cars out there at it's price point.
__________________
Appreciate 1
lowrydr3102029.00
      04-18-2024, 07:20 PM   #21
No one
Major
1098
Rep
1,429
Posts

Drives: F21 118i
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Undisclosed

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowrydr310 View Post
Had a F20 118i recently as well, VERY impressed with that car! Definitely not a powerhouse by any means, but still had the distinct BMW feel that I love.
It must have had the M-Sport suspension (option) at the very least. People claimed it was a boat on stock suspension compared to the previous 1 Series generation and electric power steering was no match for hydraulic (I never drove an older BMW myself).
Appreciate 0
      04-18-2024, 08:29 PM   #22
/ / / M3
First Lieutenant
/ / / M3's Avatar
1044
Rep
385
Posts

Drives: 2024 M3 Comp xDrive
Join Date: Nov 2023
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowrydr310 View Post
I recently rented a G21 LCI 320d for a week. It definitely looks like a BMW, and I even LIKE the styling of the wagon over the sedan. But driving the thing? Sure it was comfortable and no real complaints, just that it didn't *feel* like a BMW. You could put Kia badges inside this thing and I wouldn't know the difference. Just soft and boring. No different than any other car on the market. No soul. I know the F30 gets a lot of hate for starting that downward path, but a friend of mine has a F30 328i with Dinan suspension bits and even that car felt more BMW like than the current G20.
I had a G21 320d as a rental in Europe last summer and though it was pretty decent for what it was - a base model with a 4-cylinder diesel engine. It didn't feel any less of a driver's car than a base model E90 or F30 to me. I also drove an M340i and while no M3, that car was a lot of fun to drive (and a huge upgrade over a base 3-series).
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:54 PM.




zpost
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST