Cadillac CT4 and CT5 Blackwing

[heavyD^2]

Aren't they low volume and sold out?

[strohw]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

Haven't watched the whole video yet. But just right off the bat, interior is pretty underwhelming. I still plan to check one out in person and test drive it (If I ever get the opportunity at some point this year), but it'll be hard for me to overcome the interior dullness.

Don't need to check out a Blackwing, just go look at the regular model or even the V. They are basically the same except for the seats and steering wheel. The interior of the car is that of one in the mid 30s.

Though it's not like this doesn't happen all the time with high performance trim vehicles that are based off a relatively cheaper base model.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by strohw

Don't need to check out a Blackwing, just go look at the regular model or even the V. They are basically the same except for the seats and steering wheel. The interior of the car is that of one in the mid 30s.

Though it's not like this doesn't happen quite all the time with high performance trim vehicles that are based off a relatively cheaper base model.

Yeah I guess my point of checking it out would be to see if the driving dynamics would be enough so that I could overlook the issues with the interior. I doubt it... because part of the reason i'm looking at a luxury sports sedan is the luxury side of it.. but i'd still like to give it a fair chance.

[rdollie]

Building about 3,000 per year for next few years from what I've read and yes there is a line (but that's the case for most all performance cars these days.)

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

Aren't they low volume and sold out?

[rdollie]

Spec it with the higher end leather, sport wheel, colored seat belts, etc..
Dont' recall if you can get carbon fiber seats on the 4 like you can the 5 though.

Either way, you can make it more luxurious but you can't make it as luxe as a top of the line Audi or BMW because the money in this car went to performance more than luxe which is why the Blackwings beat everything from 991 GT3s to M5 CS at the track so far.

If you want more luxe than these cars I'd go M550 since you'd want more luxe than performance.

Originally Posted by wtwo3

Yeah I guess my point of checking it out would be to see if the driving dynamics would be enough so that I could overlook the issues with the interior. I doubt it... because part of the reason i'm looking at a luxury sports sedan is the luxury side of it.. but i'd still like to give it a fair chance.

[HelpMeHelpU]

I ordered a CT4-V BW a few months ago, not really expecting it to arrive for a LONG time. Today I got a txt msg from my dealer saying that it arrived.

Now I have to decide whether to keep it or my M2C, which I love (both MT).

Would be REALLY curious to hear of anyone's experience actually driving a 4BW AND an M2C.

Thanks so much.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by rdollie

If you want more luxe than these cars I'd go M550 since you'd want more luxe than performance.

Definitely don't want more luxe than performance. But to me the CT4V BW interior just looks so basic. I'm most likely going with a G80, but am wondering if there's an opportunity at all this year to at least try out the CT4. My current lease isn't up till October.

[strohw]

Hilariously enough, I grabbed the 4BW MT and my brother grabbed a M550i a week later.

But yes the 4BW has a rather boring and low quality interior for the price point. It's the first thing I noticed when I got the car. But honestly, after the first few days of transitioning from my old vehicle I don't even notice it now. A G80 is definitely going to give you WAY more in that regards.

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by strohw

Hilariously enough, I grabbed the 4BW MT and my brother grabbed a M550i a week later.

But yes the 4BW has a rather boring and low quality interior for the price point. It's the first thing I noticed when I got the car. But honestly, after the first few days of transitioning from my old vehicle I don't even notice it now. A G80 is definitely going to give you WAY more in that regards.

Congrats! How have you found it driving in Michigan weather (assuming you are)? I considered the 5BW but didn't pull the trigger because of Toronto winters.

[TiMSport]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

Congrats! How have you found it driving in Michigan weather (assuming you are)? I considered the 5BW but didn't pull the trigger because of Toronto winters.

I'm not the owner but couldn't help but chime in. I cannot imagine a powerful RWD car like the CT4 BW being a good "winter" car.

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by TiMSport

I'm not the owner but couldn't help but chime in. I cannot imagine a powerful RWD car like the CT4 BW being a good "winter" car.

It's not a matter of it being a "good" winter car, rather competent or at least capable. I've driven many RWD cars through winter here (before the plethora of nannies) and was just fine (for the most part). As I've gotten older and have a family, my threshold for what's "just fine" has changed hence the RS5. RWD will always pull at my heart strings though.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

It's not a matter of it being a "good" winter car, rather competent or at least capable. I've driven many RWD cars through winter here (before the plethora of nannies) and was just fine (for the most part). As I've gotten older and have a family, my threshold for what's "just fine" has changed hence the RS5. RWD will always pull at my heart strings though.

I wonder if a good set of winter tires fixes that issue to some extent. In my single days I survived winter in a RWD car on summer tires. But that was just stupid.

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

I wonder if a good set of winter tires fixes that issue to some extent. In my single days I survived winter in a RWD car on summer tires. But that was just stupid.

Oh for sure. Even back in the day I always had winter tires on my RWD cars or they were basically useless. Still made for some white knuckled drives when the weather was bad (tail just swinging back and forth on the highway = ). That's really why I was asking about the CT4/5 V BW in winter to see how far the nannies have come to mitigate the perpetual heart attack inducing feeling.

[Wheelwright]

Frankly I don't understand criticism of the interior. IMHO It is more or less equal to BMW and beats the Mercedes by a mile. Unlike the latter in Cadillac there are no cheap-feeling capacitive buttons, acres of impossible-to-keep-clean piano trim, or basic knobs hidden infuriatingly deep within the infotainment system. It is all at driver's fingertips, and the buttons are real, so they click in a reassuringly mechanical way. I only wish they kept the rotary knob to navigate the infotainment system (only the automatic Blackwing has this). The overall dashboard design is not flashy or gimmicky, but classic, which I personally have no problem with. Also you have lots of stitched leather covering the doors and the dashboard, and the icing on the cake is the night mode (borrowed from SAABs of yore), where you can turn off all the distracting cockpit lights for night cruising.

[strohw]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

Congrats! How have you found it driving in Michigan weather (assuming you are)? I considered the 5BW but didn't pull the trigger because of Toronto winters.

I'll preface my answer by saying I drive 2k miles per month even in the winter. So I drive regardless of conditions out compared to someone who maybe lives in a northern state but doesn't drive much. It's been years since I've owned a RWD vehicle that I would actually drive in the winter. So far I've had zero problems. It's gone a lot better than I thought it would to be honest. It even drives better than my wife's FWD Buick Envision. I did put Nokian Hakkapeliitta R3 on the car instead of performance winters though. So I scarified a lot of the sporty characteristics of the car with true winters.

[strohw]

Originally Posted by Wheelwright

Frankly I don't understand criticism of the interior. IMHO It is more or less equal to BMW and beats the Mercedes by a mile. Unlike the latter in Cadillac there are no cheap-feeling capacitive buttons, acres of impossible-to-keep-clean piano trim, or basic knobs hidden infuriatingly deep within the infotainment system.

My criticism of the interior has nothing to do with looks, it's entirely material quality. The quality of all the materials feels low. It's not nearly as good as what you find in say a M340i. But again, I don't really care though you can tell that extra 10k that a G80 commands definitively goes a long way towards fixing that.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by Wheelwright

Frankly I don't understand criticism of the interior. IMHO It is more or less equal to BMW and beats the Mercedes by a mile. Unlike the latter in Cadillac there are no cheap-feeling capacitive buttons, acres of impossible-to-keep-clean piano trim, or basic knobs hidden infuriatingly deep within the infotainment system. It is all at driver's fingertips, and the buttons are real, so they click in a reassuringly mechanical way. I only wish they kept the rotary knob to navigate the infotainment system (only the automatic Blackwing has this). The overall dashboard design is not flashy or gimmicky, but classic, which I personally have no problem with. Also you have lots of stitched leather covering the doors and the dashboard, and the icing on the cake is the night mode (borrowed from SAABs of yore), where you can turn off all the distracting cockpit lights for night cruising.

IMO BMW made HUGE leaps in interior fit/finish with the G series of cars (I drive a G20 and G05). So to that end I think they catapulted to the top of the class for interior.

As for the Cadillac, there's a few issues. #1 is the fisher price looking center screen with those gigantic bezels. I've also found certain materials to be less than impressive. While I haven't sat in the CT4/5 BW, I have sat in a loaded Escalade and while the design of that interior was great, there were quite a few areas of cheapness not befitting a 6 figure car. Then there's the issue of the GM parts bin. You just know you'll be sharing some parts with a Chevy Spark.

I don't think Cadillac interiors are BAD... but 1) I've been spoiled with my G05 and G20 interiors where it'll be tough for me to go back and 2) I still think for the price tag Cadillac's interiors should be better.

[AlexFL]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

IMO BMW made HUGE leaps in interior fit/finish with the G series of cars (I drive a G20 and G05). So to that end I think they catapulted to the top of the class for interior.

As for the Cadillac, there's a few issues. #1 is the fisher price looking center screen with those gigantic bezels. I've also found certain materials to be less than impressive. While I haven't sat in the CT4/5 BW, I have sat in a loaded Escalade and while the design of that interior was great, there were quite a few areas of cheapness not befitting a 6 figure car. Then there's the issue of the GM parts bin. You just know you'll be sharing some parts with a Chevy Spark.

I don't think Cadillac interiors are BAD... but 1) I've been spoiled with my G05 and G20 interiors where it'll be tough for me to go back and 2) I still think for the price tag Cadillac's interiors should be better.

100% agree. and then there is also the problem of having to service and repair your precious blackwing at GM dealerships….

[strohw]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

100% agree. and then there is also the problem of having to service and repair your precious blackwing at GM dealerships….

To be fair, a lot of Cadillac dealerships only sell Cadillacs. Which means their starter price is in low 30s and up from their. The Cadillac service center I go to is every bit as good as the BMW/Mercedes I took my X3M to. I imagine you'd have more of an issue buying a ZL1 or a GT350 and taking them to a GM or Ford dealership.

[AlexFL]

Originally Posted by strohw

To be fair, a lot of Cadillac dealerships only sell Cadillacs. Which means their starter price is in low 30s and up from their. The Cadillac service center I go to is every bit as good as the BMW/Mercedes I took my X3M to. I imagine you'd have more of an issue buying a ZL1 or a GT350 and taking them to a GM or Ford dealership.

This is true, but I still want this Ford!

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Wheelwright

Frankly I don't understand criticism of the interior. IMHO It is more or less equal to BMW and beats the Mercedes by a mile. Unlike the latter in Cadillac there are no cheap-feeling capacitive buttons, acres of impossible-to-keep-clean piano trim, or basic knobs hidden infuriatingly deep within the infotainment system. It is all at driver's fingertips, and the buttons are real, so they click in a reassuringly mechanical way. I only wish they kept the rotary knob to navigate the infotainment system (only the automatic Blackwing has this). The overall dashboard design is not flashy or gimmicky, but classic, which I personally have no problem with. Also you have lots of stitched leather covering the doors and the dashboard, and the icing on the cake is the night mode (borrowed from SAABs of yore), where you can turn off all the distracting cockpit lights for night cruising.

A giant amount of this is due to bias and perception. Things aren't nearly as far apart as in years past...but those years create a huge human factors issue to overcome...

[AlexFL]

Originally Posted by RM7

A giant amount of this is due to bias and perception. Things aren't nearly as far apart as in years past...

Hmmm, even the most patriotic, pro-GM, anti-BMW car enthusiast should be able to see a significant difference here….