All-new 2023 Nissan Z makes world debut

[Z K]

Originally Posted by M3WC

That is exactly where the value is. Even at $40k the base model still has the 400hp twin turbo. The $10k up charge for Perf trim spent on the base, can produce a superior track car. Nismo Akabono brakes $1,800, fully built LSD $1400, Rays Gram Lights $1800, tires $1000, Coiliovers $2500... not even $10k. You are well on your way to a great track weapon.

If you are looking for a car with all the creature comforts you listed, I wouldn't even be looking at this vehicle. I'd wait for the rwd M240i.

i think the options included for $10k is not a bad deal. All the stuff you list is just list part prices. If you include labor to install coilovers, brakes and an LSD that's $2k in labor at normal $200/hour labor rates.

Also, the Performance model's wheels are Rays FORGED wheels. Gram Lights are cast wheels. A forged 19" set of Rays wheels are going to cost $4k... I know, I bought a new set of TE37s last month. And no way are you getting 19" Bridgestone S007 or equivalent tires for $1000. That's $1500 without labor.

You add all that up, you're well over $10k... more like $15-20k. Even your pricing with cheap parts adds up to $8500.

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

The base car likely isn't going to be great on a track with the smaller brakes, tires, and open rear differential as it's a total stripper that doesn't even get the rev matching of the higher trim. Even the top spec is missing standard Supra equipment like HUD, wireless phone charging, dual zone climate control, etc. It seems to me that there's not really a lot of value at either price point unless you want to get a stripper and put $$$$ into converting it to a track car.

Nissan isn't marketing this as a track car and hasn't even provided performance figures. Very few people actually take their cars to the track. As for comparing equipment to the Supra, isn't the 6cyl Supra like $20k+ more?

Again, it's the value proposition of a $40k for 400hp stock shift sports car. Not about 0-60 or ring times but just fun driving at a reasonable price point.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by Z K

i think the options included for $10k is not a bad deal. All the stuff you list is just list part prices. If you include labor to install coilovers, brakes and an LSD that's $2k in labor at normal $200/hour labor rates.

Also, the Performance model's wheels are Rays FORGED wheels. Gram Lights are cast wheels. A forged 19" set of Rays wheels are going to cost $4k... I know, I bought a new set of TE37s last month. And no way are you getting 19" Bridgestone S007 or equivalent tires for $1000. That's $1500 without labor.

You add all that up, you're well over $10k... more like $15-20k. Even your pricing with cheap parts adds up to $8500.

The oem Rays wheel sizes and offsets are trash(they are getting replaced regardless of trim level). Real world you want some wheels that can get beat up(replaced easily and economically), not running TE's that will end up getting trashed first time you run over edge of track. 18x10.5 square setup on that chassis is norm for track use, run anything from a 275 to 315 depending on camber. NT05 in 285/35/18 will run you $1200. Aftermarket LSD will be more robust than stock unit(LSD is a lot less in Nissan tuning scene). $2500 for coilovers on Z is more that enough, V3's are like $2400, HKS are ~$2200. Perf trim brakes are Akebono's straight from 370Z Nismo. Calipers, aftermarket slotted rotors/pads are $1800 all day brand new. $7k can get you all that, with $3k for installation. Ideally someone that spends quality time at the track, also works on their car. Even with Perf trim, if you are seriously tracking the car. You will also be buying a track wheel/tire set, adjustable coilovers, camber plates, etc. The base model gives you so much more budget. Nissan knew what they were doing pricing the base model.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

Nissan isn't marketing this as a track car and hasn't even provided performance figures. Very few people actually take their cars to the track. As for comparing equipment to the Supra, isn't the 6cyl Supra like $20k+ more?

350Z/370Z are one of the most popular drift cars. Kids ragging on these things every weekend, they can take a beating. A lot of guys doing grip racing as well. I think Nissan knows full well some of their customers will be tracking their vehicles and modding the base cars.

Originally Posted by G MONEY

And it will be reliable AF!!!!!!!! Had a 91 300zx Turbo. Beat the shit out of. Never a problem. Had a 2003 350z with a supercharger, coils and not a single problem EVER!! My brothers GTR. Rock solid from day 1. Built to over 1200 at the wheels and it has been perfect. Can't say that about Audi, Merc and Beemers. It's a 2 seat sports car not a fucking cruiser. They will probably have a unlock ECU soon as well. Turn up the wick:-)

What is impressive, Nissan chose to do the media launch in Las Vegas in the summer with a twin turbo car. Knowing full well everyone was going to be ragging on the new Z in the desert heat. Farah said there was not any heat issues.

[ntg44]

I'm definitely excited about the new Z. Between my R8 and STI, I really don't have a need for one, but I still want to buy it, which is a pretty big hurdle to overcome considering how picky I am about what I like. On paper, the Supra has everything I'm looking for, but I wasn't excited when the car launched, and even after the manual announcement, I'm still not as excited about it as the Z. I'm not driving or looking at a spec sheet, and something about the Z just makes me want one.

I used to own a 350z, but I really don't think that's influencing my judgment. I'm not loyal to any brand. But maybe I'll just consider myself a car collector and add one of these to the stable one day.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

i dont see the need for carplay, power seats, adaptive dampers, or dual zone AC. its a sports car. less weight the better. All i need is AC, good stereo with bluetooth, good drivetrain, good handling. the only thing powered i need is the windows.

Even the stereo, who the hell listens to music in a sports car? I turned it on to see if it worked in my 997 and have not turned it on since, there's a flat 6 for soundtrack.

If what the video says is correct, we should be applauding Nissan's approach. They have used an old platform to make the numbers work on a low volume sports car but they are not chasing numbers (by their account), they are chasing driving feel, cooling, reliability etc, the unsexy things that folks on a car forum should appreciate over crazy numbers that are meaningless.

[RigaTony1982]

Was just watching some videos of this car on YouTube. It doesn't look bad all things considered, though the interior does look a little cheap to me. While I don't know if I'd buy one myself, I'm glad they are making it. As others have said, we need more sporty cars/coupes/convertibles as opposed to more SUVs.

[Conissah]

I think it looks great and hits a perfect price point. If I didn't need a 4 door 4 seater fun car (M3) I would definitely be buying one. I have a few friends with deposits on the new Z already. My only gripe is weight...35-3600lbs for a 2 seater 2 door car, disappointing. Guess that's similar to an M2 though.

The people that are talking about the underwhelming V6 must not know the tunability of it. Z1 took a Q60 from stock power (300whp / 298 wtq) way up to 425whp / 494 wtq with downpipes and a tune. A shop local to me (SOHO) made 436/502 on their shop Q60. Both of those are pump 93, on E those numbers would be much higher. For a car with an MSRP of just under $40k, its great value IMO.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Even the stereo, who the hell listens to music in a sports car? I turned it on to see if it worked in my 997 and have not turned it on since, there's a flat 6 for soundtrack.

If what the video says is correct, we should be applauding Nissan's approach. They have used an old platform to make the numbers work on a low volume sports car but they are not chasing numbers (by their account), they are chasing driving feel, cooling, reliability etc, the unsexy things that folks on a car forum should appreciate over crazy numbers that are meaningless.

In my part of the country, there is a lot of time spent on highways at a constant speed. So you aren't really getting to enjoy any soundtrack.

This past weekend I went up to Tulsa for my grandmother's 99th birthday. That meant hitting the turnpike and driving about 95 straight miles with the cruise control set around 80. Yes, I want a nice stereo to drown out the wind noise.

[Humdizzle]

Originally Posted by Conissah

I think it looks great and hits a perfect price point. If I didn't need a 4 door 4 seater fun car (M3) I would definitely be buying one. I have a few friends with deposits on the new Z already. My only gripe is weight...35-3600lbs for a 2 seater 2 door car, disappointing. Guess that's similar to an M2 though.

The people that are talking about the underwhelming V6 must not know the tunability of it. Z1 took a Q60 from stock power (300whp / 298 wtq) way up to 425whp / 494 wtq with downpipes and a tune. A shop local to me (SOHO) made 436/502 on their shop Q60. Both of those are pump 93, on E those numbers would be much higher. For a car with an MSRP of just under $40k, its great value IMO.

I dont think the q60rs/vr30 can put down S55 or S58 type numbers which is a similar sized tt motor. Its running smaller turbos. But i would honestly prefer that so i can have a better throttle response.

it is sad that it weighs nearly about as much as a 4 door f80. But bmw spent alot to save weight on that car and the price reflects it. $40k vs $70k.

[XutvJet]

The new Z in white is the color to get, IMO. I do think this car will look quite good in person.

I'm not too concerned about weight as the ~3,500lb is an estimate at this time. The 370Z was a ~3,300lb car. I have hard time seeing a set of turbos, exchangers, and body/chassis enhancements adding 200lbs. I can see this car listing at around 3,450lbs max with the bigger wheels and brakes. Even at full weight, it will still be lighter than a Stang, Camaro, current gen M240, and even a C8. A new Supra is right at 3,400lbs.

I'm actually a bit pleased about the usage of a modified old school FM platform. That platform was designed when Nissan was a solid company and not the "Dodge" of Japan that they became after ~2010. I had an FM car (2003 G35) and worked on many other FM cars like a 2005 G coupe and 2009 G37x. The chassis is robust and well designed and it's double wishbone in the front. The VR turbo motor is pretty reliable and the 6MT is as well, the one in the new Z simply being upgraded a bit to handle the power. Chassis and drivetrain wise, not much is really "new". The electronics will likely be the question here. I'll give it a year on market to see how it all shakes out.

[supra93]

https://www.nissanzclub.com/forum/th...lub.637/page-8

[M3WC]

Where are pics of the $40k base model. Does it exist?

[pikkagtr]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

I dont think the q60rs/vr30 can put down S55 or S58 type numbers which is a similar sized tt motor. Its running smaller turbos. But i would honestly prefer that so i can have a better throttle response.

it is sad that it weighs nearly about as much as a 4 door f80. But bmw spent alot to save weight on that car and the price reflects it. $40k vs $70k.

S55/S58 numbers??? Try B58 numbers
That VR is an OPEN DECK block ......good luck
Some one should start a blown motor Z registry

[Conissah]

Originally Posted by pikkagtr

S55/S58 numbers??? Try B58 numbers
That VR is an OPEN DECK block ......good luck
Some one should start a blown motor Z registry

Honda K-series are open deck and people make 600+ whp with them all day... The new GR Yaris is open deck and people are making over 300 wheel with ease, that's 100whp per cylinder. I'm failing to see your point.

[pikkagtr]

Originally Posted by Conissah

Honda K-series are open deck and people make 600+ whp with them all day... The new GR Yaris is open deck and people are making over 300 wheel with ease, that's 100whp per cylinder. I'm failing to see your point.

GR Yaris head gasket .....Google it please
Yes K series will handle 400 ish stock block, but above that most will end up using a block guard and or sleeves
Why is the 4G63 , the 2J and the EA888 so good stock form
Closed deck

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by Conissah

Honda K-series are open deck and people make 600+ whp with them all day... The new GR Yaris is open deck and people are making over 300 wheel with ease, that's 100whp per cylinder. I'm failing to see your point.

Making a ton of HP is one thing, making a ton of HP and maintaining any semblance of reliability is far different.

[Conissah]

Originally Posted by pikkagtr

GR Yaris head gasket .....Google it please
Yes K series will handle 400 ish stock block, but above that most will end up using a block guard and or sleeves
Why is the 4G63 , the 2J and the EA888 so good stock form
Closed deck

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

Making a ton of HP is one thing, making a ton of HP and maintaining any semblance of reliability is far different.

So every engine that is open deck is a bad design and is bound to blow up? Y'all are goofy. Always amazes me that people think they know more than a companies R&D/engineering department that literally sink hundreds of thousands of dollars into this stuff. If anyone is stressing the limits of an open deck engine, I highly doubt they'll care about the additional cost of sleeves when having it built...

[spielnicht]

Discovered I knew very little of the Z's history after watching this.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by Conissah

So every engine that is open deck is a bad design and is bound to blow up? Y'all are goofy. Always amazes me that people think they know more than a companies R&D/engineering department that literally sink hundreds of thousands of dollars into this stuff. If anyone is stressing the limits of an open deck engine, I highly doubt they'll care about the additional cost of sleeves when having it built...

No, you're obviously bogarting the J. Honda developed the K-series as an NA engine making in the low 200s at the crank, not 600+ at the wheels.

Are you really trying to convince us that nearly quadrupling the power output of an engine (after they've replaced multiple internal parts) is going to last 250k+ miles like a stock engine, of course it's not. Those are drag engines that MIGHT last a season. So maybe 100 miles at full throttle?

A stock 4.8 Chevy truck engine will make north of 1000hp on an engine dyno. It will make a few 1/4 mile passes before blowing up.

Puff, puff, pass.

[billnchristy]

All race engines get built every season, even the mighty 2J. Nothing making 3-4x factory output is going to be reliable, doesn't matter what the design is.

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by Conissah

So every engine that is open deck is a bad design and is bound to blow up? Y'all are goofy. Always amazes me that people think they know more than a companies R&D/engineering department that literally sink hundreds of thousands of dollars into this stuff. If anyone is stressing the limits of an open deck engine, I highly doubt they'll care about the additional cost of sleeves when having it built...

There's a reason BMW made the B58 block closed deck and it's for reliability. Comparing open deck to closed deck is akin to comparing forged rods to cast. The cast rods can be reliable but the ultimate durability limits are far lower than forged. Same with the blocks. Close deck is going to be able to handle more power, more reliably. It's not even debatable.