Rethinking EV’s?

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by jphcbpa

BYD has a BEV 3 row suv at 590 miles range. Geely has a PHEV with 858 hp and 800 miles of range.

China range ratings are super generous. 590mi CLTC generally translates to about 414mi EPA... which is just barely more than the iX350.
Edit: Just looked up the vehicle, this is the BYD Great Tang RWD. The AWD model has comparable to a 370mi range, which is beat by the EQS, Escalade iQ, Lucid Gravity, and most likely the iX5, all with 3 rows.

[Altamate]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

China range ratings are super generous.

You are being polite, Business in China is about lying and taking advantage whenever you can.

[Phillies8008]

Originally Posted by jphcbpa

BYD has a BEV 3 row suv at 590 miles range. Geely has a PHEV with 858 hp and 800 miles of range.

Do they really, or do they just say that's the range? There's a big difference. I'm betting the latter.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by Altamate

You are being polite, Business in China is about lying and taking advantage whenever you can.

China has short miles and very tiny horses
We buy our batteries from China and when we run them on our equipment they are always at least 10% lower capacity that advertised. Amazing what happens on a trip across the ocean.

[jphcbpa]

Originally Posted by Phillies8008

Do they really, or do they just say that's the range? There's a big difference. I'm betting the latter.

Possibly but a Bev offering 600 miles range in a few years is not too far fetched. Just a matter of time

[Turbanator]

Possibly but I'm not too sure of the appeal of that, especially if charging speeds and infrastructure are both improved by then. An EV could have 150 miles for all I care if I can charge conveniently and easily whenever I need to. I also think most automakers would rather target reduced vehicle weight/height by the time we reach battery densities that could provide that kind of range in the current skateboard layout. If a car the size of an i3 can hit 600 real miles, that also means they can cut the battery size to have a 300-400 mile range while being as light as an ICE car, or maybe even lighter.

[Phillies8008]

Originally Posted by jphcbpa

Possibly but a Bev offering 600 miles range in a few years is not too far fetched. Just a matter of time

It's definitely just a matter of time – I just think that the timeline is longer than a few years given the relative slowness of battery technology advancement. It's one of those technologies where the next big thing has been five years away for the last 30ish years.

[jaffles]

Originally Posted by m3bs

There was an article in the WSJ today about EV ownership experience. It was generally positive, but one thing jumped out at me. They said EVs had 80% more reliability issues than ICE vehicles, based on a CR survey. It didn’t say whether the issues were mechanical, electrical, or software related.

Did they say EVs catch fire but disregard the stats on ICE catching fire?
Little while ago I heard in a pod cast China has put a cavate on car manufacturers that all Chinese made EVs from 2026 will NOT catch fire or....

Reckon people are also pretty dumb, got a story about a pilot who could only get 19lt/100 km out of his hybrid, so got rid of it. The exact same 3 tone pickup I bought for a staff member is getting 6lt/100 when its not in EV mode.

[jaffles]

Originally Posted by G30M

i dare not even drive my M550i because i'm worried about breaking it! meanwhile my Kia EV6 GT claims 0-62 in 3.5s. according to my RaceBox i have done nearly 1,000 launches and getting 3.7s. i think one day i launched it nearly 100 times in 2 hours (0-62 only, can't do quarter mile on public roads too risky). if i did that in a M3 it would have exploded!

And to think 10 launches in a Ferrari and your up for a new $17,000 clutch, and still no faster. .

[jaffles]

Originally Posted by Altamate

You are being polite, Business in China is about lying and taking advantage whenever you can.

Probably right, but American business is about overcharging way to much for what you get.

[m630]

Originally Posted by jaffles

And to think 10 launches in a Ferrari and your up for a new $17,000 clutch, and still no faster. .

Nobody buys a Ferrari to do launches.

[jaffles]

Originally Posted by m630

Nobody buys a Ferrari to do launches.

Maybe so but got a mate with a California. It's capable of factory launches just Ferrari told him its only good for 10. So choose wisely as a new clutch is 25K AU.

A 500K Ferrari that does 3.6 sec, or a 100k Kia that does 3.6. Just trying to make a point where value for money, fun, and sales for EV has its merit.

Reckon the build quality of the Kia is also well above the Ferrari.

[Altamate]

Originally Posted by jaffles

Probably right, but American business is about overcharging way to much for what you get.

If something is not right in your business dealings with your Chinese partner and he is not keeping his part of the contract, you have no recourse because there is no legal system to turn to. So by default they think it is stupid to honour contracts with foreign entities. It’s why they steal intellectual property, because they can get away with it.

There is one exception, if the Chinese government is on your side, they will physically threaten your partner and his family to honour his agreement with you.

[jaffles]

Originally Posted by Altamate

If something is not right in your business dealings with your Chinese partner and he is not keeping his part of the contract, you have no recourse because there is no legal system to turn to. So by default they think it is stupid to honour contracts with foreign entities. It’s why they steal intellectual property, because they can get away with it.

There is one exception, if the Chinese government is on your side, they will physically threaten your partner and his family to honour his agreement with you.

Yeh you may be right, but can't say America is shining either. Th US do their fair share of bulling. I know so from from a couple US owned companies I deal with. An example is sticking to quarterly price adjustments when Diesel has skyrocketed $1.50 per lt due to someone's little excursion as he put sit. Not my fault, or theirs, but no understanding or will wither.

I have found stuff I bought from China has been replaced without question and in good time, often for free. The AI assist makes decisions and gets stuff sorted asap. Quite the opposite to the US model of endless circular self help reading. Admittedly its not contractual or anything major.

In Cummins case, after multiple phone calls, and holds, they reluctantly offered an unspecified pro rata if I purchased anther 3k exhaust brake of them. This thing had been professionally fitted, is non serviceable and was 13 months old. I mean 1 month out of warranty, it should last a decade at worst. To be honest in the end I felt like I dodged a bullet. I put an Australian made one on for $1500 and sold the truck. I bought a European truck and have not looked back.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by jaffles

Maybe so but got a mate with a California. It's capable of factory launches just Ferrari told him its only good for 10. So choose wisely as a new clutch is 25K AU.

A 500K Ferrari that does 3.6 sec, or a 100k Kia that does 3.6. Just trying to make a point where value for money, fun, and sales for EV has its merit.

Reckon the build quality of the Kia is also well above the Ferrari.

wowowo, good for 10 launches? there is a video on YT where they launched a Porsche 911 Turbo S 50 times in a row without resting (much) to mark some kind of 50th's anniversary. and it was fine.

anyway i got my EV6 GT for around USD50k in my money ... I'm still trying to sell it but nobody wants to buy it ... so i'll be doing more launches!

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

CR issues are extremely questionable. Your engine fails? That's a reliability issue. You don't know how to change your fan vents because they're in the touch screen? That's a reliability issue. Your phone got an update and now Android Auto lags even though nothing about your car changed? That's a reliability issue.

I'm sure there are genuine issues, especially SW-related, with EVs that should be addressed, but it's very hard to use CR for anything remotely reputable.

Waaaayyyy back in the day CR reviewed the 1987 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe. They marked it down because with the big (heavy) doors, the tester said it was too difficult to exit the driver's seat with two (at that time paper) bags of groceries. WTF? It was the last I ever took a CR automotive review seriously.

[Phillies8008]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Waaaayyyy back in the day CR reviewed the 1987 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe. They marked it down because with the big (heavy) doors, the tester said it was too difficult to exit the driver's seat with two (at that time paper) bags of groceries. WTF? It was the last I ever took a CR automotive review seriously.

But was this a review, or their reliability ratings? They're two different things. Unless I'm mistaken, the post you replied to was referring to their reliability rankings.

Reviews are by nature subjective, so what's important to the reviewer may not necessarily be important to the reader/viewer. Reliability ratings are also somewhat subjective, but should be much less so than a review. And you wouldn't really even know since they're aggregated across all respondents.

[m630]

Originally Posted by jaffles

Maybe so but got a mate with a California. It's capable of factory launches just Ferrari told him its only good for 10. So choose wisely as a new clutch is 25K AU.

A 500K Ferrari that does 3.6 sec, or a 100k Kia that does 3.6. Just trying to make a point where value for money, fun, and sales for EV has its merit.

Reckon the build quality of the Kia is also well above the Ferrari.

No offense to your mate but thats a paris hilton car not a cavallino rampante, its the worst failure in the companies history and is just a rebaged maserati. Ofcourse he was told that, they want to sell him some maintenance for any use of such a trick for those types of “owners”.
Sorry to burst a bubble no true ferrari owner does launches, and no the social media generation that makes rediculous content for likes are not real owners, thats garbage and anyone that launches in a ferrari is a tool.
Value according to you. Where r u doing 0-60 in 3.6 on the streets? Numbers are bs for marketing not real life.
A real ferrari is a work of art in motion, and emotion, and thats where its value is derived. Oh and its a street legal race car in most cases made by the legacy of an italian race car driver with a dream to race and win, who made street legal race cars to fund his racing team. Please learn history before putting Ferrari and Kia in the same sentence, its insane. Anyone paying $100k for a kia is insane. By this measure a new ferrari is cheap at even $500k because they are 100 times a kia in most cases. The only failures from Maranello are due to the greenies in Brussels that forces EV mandates and ferrari is paying the price dearly as are their hybrid owners. The full EV upcoming is a complete disaster in the making and will cause massive losses to the brand, they made a bad decision a few years back at the height of the crazy green EV push that has destroyed every german car brand and many others all over the world.

[maticCRO]

Originally Posted by m630

No offense to your mate but thats a paris hilton car not a cavallino rampante, its the worst failure in the companies history and is just a rebaged maserati. Ofcourse he was told that, they want to sell him some maintenance for any use of such a trick for those types of “owners”.
Sorry to burst a bubble no true ferrari owner does launches, and no the social media generation that makes rediculous content for likes are not real owners, thats garbage and anyone that launches in a ferrari is a tool.
Value according to you. Where r u doing 0-60 in 3.6 on the streets? Numbers are bs for marketing not real life.
A real ferrari is a work of art in motion, and emotion, and thats where its value is derived. Oh and its a street legal race car in most cases made by the legacy of an italian race car driver with a dream to race and win, who made street legal race cars to fund his racing team. Please learn history before putting Ferrari and Kia in the same sentence, its insane. Anyone paying $100k for a kia is insane. By this measure a new ferrari is cheap at even $500k because they are 100 times a kia in most cases. The only failures from Maranello are due to the greenies in Brussels that forces EV mandates and ferrari is paying the price dearly as are their hybrid owners. The full EV upcoming is a complete disaster in the making and will cause massive losses to the brand, they made a bad decision a few years back at the height of the crazy green EV push that has destroyed every german car brand and many others all over the world.

Exactly this x10000... "Kia is better build quality than Ferrari hahahaa"... Anyone buying a 100k $ Kia is..... Not enough Words to describe such a car expert hahaha

[jaffles]

Originally Posted by m630

No offense to your mate but thats a paris hilton car not a cavallino rampante, its the worst failure in the companies history and is just a rebaged maserati. Ofcourse he was told that, they want to sell him some maintenance for any use of such a trick for those types of “owners”.
Sorry to burst a bubble no true ferrari owner does launches, and no the social media generation that makes rediculous content for likes are not real owners, thats garbage and anyone that launches in a ferrari is a tool.
Value according to you. Where r u doing 0-60 in 3.6 on the streets? Numbers are bs for marketing not real life.
A real ferrari is a work of art in motion, and emotion, and thats where its value is derived. Oh and its a street legal race car in most cases made by the legacy of an italian race car driver with a dream to race and win, who made street legal race cars to fund his racing team. Please learn history before putting Ferrari and Kia in the same sentence, its insane. Anyone paying $100k for a kia is insane. By this measure a new ferrari is cheap at even $500k because they are 100 times a kia in most cases. The only failures from Maranello are due to the greenies in Brussels that forces EV mandates and ferrari is paying the price dearly as are their hybrid owners. The full EV upcoming is a complete disaster in the making and will cause massive losses to the brand, they made a bad decision a few years back at the height of the crazy green EV push that has destroyed every german car brand and many others all over the world.

ahh the romance of a Ferrari. What you say is true on one hand, but on the other its lacking paint in the engine bay, as you can see the primer. And the welding looks like the apprentice had a go. Radio still can't be fixed by Ferrari and ol mate is selling it for an Aston Martin as he feels the build quality is chalk and cheese. He also has a DB9.

Still everyone likes a Ferrari, I feel just you need to look at them through realistic glasses. I made the mistake buying a Bentley through rose coloured glasses and meh, its nothing special.

My prices were Australian so sorry for confusion. Think however, many what seeming are standard EVs will challenge tradition supercars for 0-100. They may or may not ever take precedence over ice, but I am installing a charger at home for the next car, and most likely the kids as well. Unless I'm driving more than 450+km and want to do it in a hurry, I am fading on the pros of ice.

A lot of it is drive by control of my destiny. This whole war BS and what oil companies or cashed up Arabs want/do is wearing thin. I can power the car for free from the sun for 99% of what I do with it. And I'd rather listen to silence or loud music then an engine when out and about.

[Phillies8008]

Originally Posted by jaffles

Think however, many what seeming are standard EVs will challenge tradition supercars for 0-100.

Not that I don't necessarily understand the point, but I do find it funny that once even pedestrian EVs started smoking all but the highest of the high-end (and maybe even then) supercars off the line 0-60 suddenly became much less important to the anti-EV crowd. I guess you've got to know when to cut your losses, lol.

A lot of it is drive by control of my destiny. This whole war BS and what oil companies or cashed up Arabs want/do is wearing thin.

Forget environmental arguments, forget 0-60, forget torque, forget damn near everything else. I'd love to see EVs become more widespread (don't worry, we can still have ICE too) if for no other reason than to decrease our dependency on oil so that we can stop caring about the stupid Middle East. The only importance it holds is its oil, and I'm beyond tired of trying to referee conflicts that have been going on for thousands of years between a bunch of despots and will never stop, no matter how hard we try. Things would be so much better if we could just ignore the whole clusterfuck – I don't particularly care which people live on which particular mound of sand halfway around the world. Let 'em have at it.

[Car-Addicted]

Top Oil-Producing Countries (2025):

United States: ~13.58 million barrels per day (mb/d), driven by shale drilling.
Russia: ~9.87 mb/d, with key reserves in West Siberia.
Saudi Arabia: ~9.51 mb/d, holding ~17% of proven reserves.
Canada: ~4.94 mb/d, largely from Alberta's oil sands.
Iraq: ~4.39 mb/d, with major fields in the south.
China: ~4.34 mb/d, focusing on domestic, mature fields.
Iran: ~4.19 mb/d, holder of large proven reserves.
Brazil: ~3.75 mb/d, a rapidly growing, low-carbon offshore producer.
UAE: ~3.82 mb/d.
Kuwait: ~2.58 mb/d.