Caddy Rudeness

[Nkc]

This is a prime example of why people say BMW driver's are DBs or jerks. Regardless of how you feel a dealership or large car manufacturer should be run, you still won't accept that you were the one that was rude to a floor salesman that doesn't have any choice of what they have on the lot. From what I read, the salesman provided service and information to you on a professional level and you honestly have a stick shifter up your ass thinking every lot should have a MT for every model just so you could try it. We can fight all day discussing whether or not dealers should stock MT anymore but that's not the case here, you defamed a person and a dealership with no grounds and it seems that not one person that posted supports you here douche.

Quit justifying your reasons for being a d-bag, man up and accept that you over reacted and gave another person a really hard time.

[F32]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

Man I feel for car salesmen.

It's unfortunate. I have nothing but respect for them considering how difficult it is to be in the industry dealing with people like the OP.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

I agree.

But not sure we are fighting the same fight.

I have issue with hating on the F30 when one has not driven one or had some base loaner and then pulls some article to try and support their biased vitriol.

I have no interest in needing to have the BEST car in the segment which some can debate is what I bought. What I did was buy the BEST car for MY needs. So anyone who chooses something other than what I did-fine with me lol. But magazine racers lacking real test drive experience who crap on thread after thread, quite lame.

Funny that you, NemesisX, and I all have the same opinion about car magazine comparos (and fanboyism). I think comparos are good for the data collection, but that's about it. Sometimes data does translate to the driving experience and sometimes it doesn't. Looks and comfort (everyone is built different) are always subjective (hence my going on and on about "gauge sparkle" - LOL).

In the past BMWs have always been about the driving experience. The non-sport package versions never were sloppy cars; the base chassis 335i with an auto is sloppy, as I found out with an extensive 1,000-mile test drive where I got to evaluate the car vs. my E90 on the excellent country roads I drive on every day. I lived with the F30 for 8 days and 3 tanks of fuel. By the 6th day I final figured out how to get it to sort of behave like a BMW, but it still wasn't good. Sorry. Not trying to disrespect your car, just giving my experience from 25 years of driving BMWs. The electric steering just does not match hydraulic; it's nice they can give you variable ratios and variable effort, but old school (which I am) dictates the steering should be spot-on without any need for manipulation.

I then went and drove the 320i Sport-package version to find the difference between the two chassis setups; all without finding out a head of time if the dealer had one in stock -OMG. I thought the 320i sport was tight in relation to suspension control, but the (electric) steering did not meet my (BMW DNA) expectations and the brakes did not either. The car I drove was almost exactly the way I would order it and equivalent to the content of my E90. The 320i configured and priced this way fits MY needs for a car that will see 160 miles a day commute, that being a relative inexpensive car and good fuel economy. I could buy an M3 if I want, but it would be a waste of a car.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Nkc

This is a prime example of why people say BMW driver's are DBs or jerks. Regardless of how you feel a dealership or large car manufacturer should be run, you still won't accept that you were the one that was rude to a floor salesman that doesn't have any choice of what they have on the lot. From what I read, the salesman provided service and information to you on a professional level and you honestly have a stick shifter up your ass thinking every lot should have a MT for every model just so you could try it. We can fight all day discussing whether or not dealers should stock MT anymore but that's not the case here, you defamed a person and a dealership with no grounds and it seems that not one person that posted supports you here douche.

Quit justifying your reasons for being a d-bag, man up and accept that you over reacted and gave another person a really hard time.

You can use name calling all you want; who gives a crap, seriously. And everyone here can keep doing the same, it only goes to support your point about the perception of BMW drivers.

The salesman didn't provide any information. I nicely, with no attitude (i.e. no stick up my ass), asked to drive two specific models of the ATS. Despite that, the salesman tried to suggest a manu-matic transmission as an alternative to a 3-pedal car, which was his mistake; he should have been smart enough to realize that if I specifically requested a manual trans version, I had no interest in a automatic with the 2.0L. A DB move would have been bitching about 3.6L not being available with a manual transmission (knowing GM doesn't offer it in that configuration), then I could see the salesman thinking I was a total dick. I am interested in the 3.6 with the auto and the magnetic suspension (it's a bit out of my price consideration - see above for the reasons) from a glowing review from a E90 Post member, who bought one a few months back (and who is a track instructor). The salesman raised his voice and got douchebaggy; so maybe he had the bad day at the golf course (I don't play golf). I just said "No thanks, see ya."

I actually was trying to ease the salesman's job by being specific on exactly what I cars I wanted to try rather than some old fart that would come in and the Salesman trying to convince the Customer to buy a sports sedan that an old-fart would not have interest in in the first place, or pick through the Customer's brain on the model and configuration he might be interested in. So if I came across as a dick to the salesman, well then that's tough. Life is tough. He being like most 20ish-year olds I meet are way too sensitive and fragile of self esteem (despite our society's give-every-kid-a-trophy mindset). The Salesman made it a hard time, I didn't. Customer's have expectations; BMW customers (which we all are) certainly do (like mod a 335i with a JB and expect BMW to honor the warranty - for instance).

Peace.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Funny that you, NemesisX, and I all have the same opinion about car magazine comparos (and fanboyism). I think comparos are good for the data collection, but that's about it. Sometimes data does translate to the driving experience and sometimes it doesn't. Looks and comfort (everyone is built different) are always subjective (hence my going on and on about "gauge sparkle" - LOL).

In the past BMWs have always been about the driving experience. The non-sport package versions never were sloppy cars; the base chassis 335i with an auto is sloppy, as I found out with an extensive 1,000-mile test drive where I got to evaluate the car vs. my E90 on the excellent country roads I drive on every day. I lived with the F30 for 8 days and 3 tanks of fuel. By the 6th day I final figured out how to get it to sort of behave like a BMW, but it still wasn't good. Sorry. Not trying to disrespect your car, just giving my experience from 25 years of driving BMWs. The electric steering just does not match hydraulic; it's nice they can give you variable ratios and variable effort, but old school (which I am) dictates the steering should be spot-on without any need for manipulation.

I then went and drove the 320i Sport-package version to find the difference between the two chassis setups; all without finding out a head of time if the dealer had one in stock -OMG. I thought the 320i sport was tight in relation to suspension control, but the (electric) steering did not meet my (BMW DNA) expectations and the brakes did not either. The car I drove was almost exactly the way I would order it and equivalent to the content of my E90. The 320i configured and priced this way fits MY needs for a car that will see 160 miles a day commute, that being a relative inexpensive car and good fuel economy. I could buy an M3 if I want, but it would be a waste of a car.

You are not disrespecting my car, I don't have a 335/base. I have an MSport 328 with a 6spd stick, lowered on 19's with 275mm PSS' out back. I have one of the later updated steering racks and my wheels/tires/springs have upped steering feedback and heft to a place I find acceptable. So if you liked the handling of the 320 Sport, you would likely appreciate my car as it has more power and better steering+brakes than you felt the 320 was lacking.

I also got my car for $38k, $6k off, again-the right car for ME. I find at $45k-50-55-60k, the 3 series loses more and more appeal for me.

[GammaZeta]

Op is a very rude person.

Anyone who considers themselves a car "enthusiast" wouldn't treat a salesperson like that.

[ep_83]

OP,

It sounds like the salesperson tried to accommodate you as best he could with what he had available. Saying things like "why does Cadillac even bother...Lincoln pulled this crap 10 years ago... No, I don't want to drive the auto... why would I order a car I haven't test driven" all sounds very condescending. It could just be the way your posts reads, but it seems like you're very hard to please. With statements like why does Cadillac even bother, you make it seem like BMW dealerships have an overwhelming amount of manual M-sports on their lot. It's rare to find a manual 3er to test drive, let alone an M-Sport. Why does BMW even bother?

[Jamesons Viggen]

My thing is, get pissed/give attitude to the right person-the one with clout and the one who has created the situation i.e., don't shoot the messenger.

When I go to a restaurant and order a steak, the waiter wrote it down correctly and dictated to the kitchen correctly...when it comes out raw or DEAD, I don't see a point in beating up the waiter and or taking it out of his tip(in fact I often tip even higher when I know the waiter is taking shit that is not his fault lol).

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by ep_83

OP,

It sounds like the salesperson tried to accommodate you as best he could with what he had available. Saying things like "why does Cadillac even bother...Lincoln pulled this crap 10 years ago... No, I don't want to drive the auto... why would I order a car I haven't test driven" all sounds very condescending. It could just be the way your posts reads, but it seems like you're very hard to please. With statements like why does Cadillac even bother, you make it seem like BMW dealerships have an overwhelming amount of manual M-sports on their lot. It's rare to find a manual 3er to test drive, let alone an M-Sport. Why does BMW even bother?

Let me ask you, would you spend $45K on a car that you didn't test drive? I doubt it, you'd want to test drive an example of the car you were considering ordering just like I would. My voicing of "why does Cadillac bother... blah, blah, blah, was spoken in a very nice tone and with an emphasis on logic; it was not said in a condescending tone as everyone assumes here (maybe that tells us something...), the salesman was just inexperienced. Hopefully, if he's not ignorant, he'll learn from the experience (I'm sure there is more than one dick in the world like me), and handle a future similar situation differently. What I learned is I should deal with an experienced salesperson next time.

I'm not very hard to please at all. My E90 was at a dealer in Northern Virginia for 8 days (over a weekend too) with an unsolvable software issue (which is why I had the F30 for a week) and I never got upset nor complained it was taking too long. Most BMW owners would have been ignorant of the background engineering causing the issue and would have been chewing on the regional customer representative's ass by day three.

[ep_83]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Let me ask you, would you spend $45K on a car that you didn't test drive? I doubt it, you'd want to test drive an example of the car you were considering ordering just like I would. My voicing of "why does Cadillac bother... blah, blah, blah, was spoken in a very nice tone and with an emphasis on logic; it was not said in a condescending tone as everyone assumes here (maybe that tells us something...), the salesman was just inexperienced. Hopefully, if he's not ignorant, he'll learn from the experience (I'm sure there is more than one dick in the world like me), and handle a future similar situation differently. What I learned is I should deal with an experienced salesperson next time.

I'm not very hard to please at all. My E90 was at a dealer in Northern Virginia for 8 days (over a weekend too) with an unsolvable software issue (which is why I had the F30 for a week) and I never got upset nor complained it was taking too long. Most BMW owners would have been ignorant of the background engineering causing the issue and would have been chewing on the regional customer representative's ass by day three.

I see. Sorry I guess it's just the way your post reads. I'd definitely look at the other dealership you mentioned. I ended up leasing a 2.0t (automatic) after test driving it right after test driving a 320i w/ sport package. It's fantastic! I do think the f30 is still a great car. It's definitely more practical (better on gas and alot more spacious), but I'm happy with my decision. I'll re-visit BMW when my lease is over and check out the LCI 3er. My wife really liked it and we're thinking of trading in her Acura but I'm going to have negative equity if we do.

[Clifton]

The masses showing their contempt for Efthreeooh, what a surprise....

[chumley]

Originally Posted by b0bab0i

Exactly what I thought when I read OP's post.

I'm forced to agree. I'll go one step further - I seriously doubt, on any given day most BMW dealers regularly stock a manual.

I can tell you for certain that I bought my 335 w/o a test drive of the manual, because neither dealer in my general area had one - or had any plans on getting one.

[Its_lobelt]

The problem started when you began to look for a manual transmission in a car of that is rarely ever ordered like that. Dealers don't order what people don't want. Simple business practice. No sense in complaining about it.

[1cleanm6]

In 2010 I couldn't even drive a e92 m3 in manual, no one had it cause no one was buying them.. And you want manual ats.. Haaa!

[Never Convicted]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Let me ask you, would you spend $45K on a car that you didn't test drive? I doubt it, you'd want to test drive an example of the car you were considering ordering just like I would. My voicing of "why does Cadillac bother... blah, blah, blah, was spoken in a very nice tone and with an emphasis on logic; it was not said in a condescending tone as everyone assumes here (maybe that tells us something...), the salesman was just inexperienced. Hopefully, if he's not ignorant, he'll learn from the experience (I'm sure there is more than one dick in the world like me), and handle a future similar situation differently. What I learned is I should deal with an experienced salesperson next time.

I'm not very hard to please at all. My E90 was at a dealer in Northern Virginia for 8 days (over a weekend too) with an unsolvable software issue (which is why I had the F30 for a week) and I never got upset nor complained it was taking too long. Most BMW owners would have been ignorant of the background engineering causing the issue and would have been chewing on the regional customer representative's ass by day three.

I totally agree...you're a douchebag.

[Jdub679]

I tried test driving a manual TL Type S as well as a manual 335i back in 2008. Neither dealer had a manual on the lot. This is not surprising. OP, your mistake was in assuming 1) they should have manuals, and 2) that the salesperson made a mistake by offering something else for you to drive.

If you go into a restaurant and you order the steak (someone used that as an example and it's in my head), and they're out of steak, they offer you something else. They don't say "sorry, we're out of steak. You should leave." Get it?

Also, you are not committed to purchasing any vehicle just by ordering it. Case in point, when I finally got my manual 335i. I ordered it from Germany. I put a small deposit down. But I was not committed to purchasing it when it arrived. I had first right of refusal though.

[Efthreeoh]

So to update this lovely and titillating thread.

I've now had the opportunity to drive an ATS. My GM-product pickup got some rodent damage to a couple of wiring harnesses last weekend. It's now at a GM/Cadillac dealer getting repaired under insurance. I got a loaner car and asked for a ATS 2.0T (with a manual of course - knowing they don't have manual loaner cars ). But they do have three ATS with manual trans in the new car inventory at the dealer; so poo any everyone who said why would I expect a dealer to have ones available to test drive.

Anyway, the loaner car I got was a 2.0T with the auto. Sorry to say, but the ATS I have drives far far, far better than the F30 335i had was tortured with last week and far, far, far better than the slowpoke 320i sport package I test drove on Friday, the day of the "incident" (where I apparently made a car salesman cry). Mind you I intend to take the manual version home for a 24-hour test drive that this dealer in Norther Virginia is offering as the manual in the Caddy behaves much better than the BMWs and that's of couse my perference.

The ATS rides like a sport sedan, the steering is a bit light for my taste but does have some steering feel in it, and the brakes are spot on sport sedan. So all in all, BMW has convinced me that my next car, after 25+ years of BMW ownership, will be a Cadillac ATS.

[KingOfJericho]

You're still not understanding why that particular dealer didn't have the car you wanted on the lot. Dealers order cars that they can sell. The first dealer you went to didn't think they could sell the manual version of the car so they didn't order any. Clearly, the second dealer does think they can sell them so they ordered them for their inventory. You call BMW owners douchebags, yet you brag about owning one for the last 25 years. Pot, meet kettle.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

So to update this lovely and titillating thread.

I've now had the opportunity to drive an ATS. My GM-product pickup got some rodent damage to a couple of wiring harnesses last weekend. It's now at a GM/Cadillac dealer getting repaired under insurance. I got a loaner car and asked for a ATS 2.0T (with a manual of course - knowing they don't have manual loaner cars ). But they do have three ATS with manual trans in the new car inventory at the dealer; so poo any everyone who said why would I expect a dealer to have ones available to test drive.

Anyway, the loaner car I got was a 2.0T with the auto. Sorry to say, but the ATS I have drives far far, far better than the F30 335i had was tortured with last week and far, far, far better than the slowpoke 320i sport package I test drove on Friday, the day of the "incident" (where I apparently made a car salesman cry). Mind you I intend to take the manual version home for a 24-hour test drive that this dealer in Norther Virginia is offering as the manual in the Caddy behaves much better than the BMWs and that's of couse my perference.

The ATS rides like a sport sedan, the steering is a bit light for my taste but does have some steering feel in it, and the brakes are spot on sport sedan. So all in all, BMW has convinced me that my next car, after 25+ years of BMW ownership, will be a Cadillac ATS.

I would not buy a $40k+ car without driving the PROPER competition.

You drove a poorly optioned 335(competing with the ATS 3.6) and a good handling but low powered 320(which competes the ATS 2.5). You are liking the ATS 2.0T, good. But you still have not driven a comparable 3 series which would be a 328 Sport or MSport. Drive a ATS 2.5L-that is the base engine which compares to the 320.

If you still prefer the ATS 2.0T, great-buy it. But it is not the one to compare to the 320.

[secretsquirrel]

Originally Posted by Nkc

I thought the same thing. My BMW dealership didn't have any manual 3 series in stock when I purchased it. Manuals don't sell, so they are often special order.

[KingOfJericho]

I test drove a manual 335i and an auto 135i to get a feel before ordering my 6MT 135i. When they did get a 6MT in, they called me and asked me if I wanted to try that as well.

[ep_83]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

So to update this lovely and titillating thread.

I've now had the opportunity to drive an ATS. My GM-product pickup got some rodent damage to a couple of wiring harnesses last weekend. It's now at a GM/Cadillac dealer getting repaired under insurance. I got a loaner car and asked for a ATS 2.0T (with a manual of course - knowing they don't have manual loaner cars ). But they do have three ATS with manual trans in the new car inventory at the dealer; so poo any everyone who said why would I expect a dealer to have ones available to test drive.

Anyway, the loaner car I got was a 2.0T with the auto. Sorry to say, but the ATS I have drives far far, far better than the F30 335i had was tortured with last week and far, far, far better than the slowpoke 320i sport package I test drove on Friday, the day of the "incident" (where I apparently made a car salesman cry). Mind you I intend to take the manual version home for a 24-hour test drive that this dealer in Norther Virginia is offering as the manual in the Caddy behaves much better than the BMWs and that's of couse my perference.

The ATS rides like a sport sedan, the steering is a bit light for my taste but does have some steering feel in it, and the brakes are spot on sport sedan. So all in all, BMW has convinced me that my next car, after 25+ years of BMW ownership, will be a Cadillac ATS.

Which trim are you thinking of getting?