Rethinking EV’s?

[STOLENG82]

I don’t care if gas goes to $20/gal I like driving and hearing my car. Never driving an ev. I’m not a mom.

Like someone else said we’re all on limited time im gonna have fun with mine a couple extra dollars a month saved isn’t going to change my lifestyle in the slightest

[W2k]

I don't think choosing a car based on short term fuel price fluctuations makes sense. And BMW is hardly the brand to choose if you're prioritizing lowest possible cost of ownership in the first place. If you have a car that you really enjoy driving then it'll be worth the paying a little extra.

That said, EVs are getting better and better so concerns about range, charging speed, reliability and so on are now practically non-issues. If the current fuel situation is what inspires you to go test drive a couple EVs, then go for it. You might find they're actually very good cars. I know that once I got used to the lack of noise/fumes and the instant massive torque from 0 rpm, it became a lot less appealing to drive an ICE car, even a hybrid. But maybe your experience will be different and you'll find you still prefer old school. At least then you're making an informed decision.

If you're worried about excessive depreciation then buy used. Almost all new cars depreciate like crazy. The difference in depreciation between ICE and BEV cars has been getting smaller over time, so this too is a temporary "issue".

[Altamate]

Originally Posted by W2k

That said, EVs are getting better and better so concerns about range, charging speed, reliability and so on are now practically non-issues. If the current fuel situation is what inspires you to go test drive a couple EVs, then go for it. You might find they're actually very good cars. I know that once I got used to the lack of noise/fumes and the instant massive torque from 0 rpm, it became a lot less appealing to drive an ICE car, even a hybrid. But maybe your experience will be different and you'll find you still prefer old school. At least then you're making an informed decision.

If you're worried about excessive depreciation then buy used.

I think range and recharging not being an issue really depends on where you live. If you live in a cold climate and fast charging stations are rather scarce, you have a problem. Especially if you need the vehicle to do something other than commute around town.

Charging stations break down in cold weather and battery life is reduced in cold weather. I would be able to charge at home for free( solar panels on the house) but do not like that our long distance trip car could be stuck in a line up for a charging station when it is -25C outside. I’m keeping the 440 because even though a newer Tesla Model 3 AWD performance is better in most situations and at least $10,000 cheaper, a 800km trip in the Winter to somewhere remote like my Daughter’s house in is almost irresponsible or foolish.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by Higgs Boson

I would do the math on fuel savings vs depreciation. EV's drop like rocks. That's because of supply and demand. Demand is so low that supply could be 1 and they would still drop in value.

Do the math on what your car is worth vs what you paid for it vs the 1.50 or whatever your gas has gone up and then add the depreciation of your EV you will inevitably trade back in for a huge loss when your miss your ICE and gas prices come back down. You should probably keep your car and pay for gas.

Depreciation is a long term solution for a short term problem.

interesting. i guess it depends on where you live. we don't produce gas here, only buy them. since the war the FOMO has caused the entire country to run out of EVs for sale!

so I bought a KIA!! EV at 30% discount off list price 9 months ago because, well, nobody wanted EVs. 2 days ago due to the FOMO i listed my KIA!! EV and within 24 hrs it was sold at a price of USD 60,000, 6k more than my purchase price 9 months ago! KIA !!

someone once told me - buy when it's cheap, sell when it's expensive. doesn't matter if it's a car or a house, etc.

but i'm going to be losing money big time soon, because i put in an order for a BMW EV without discount ... still wondering whether i will go ahead with the purchase ... dealer says please put in the order, we will give you a free cancellation clause, we will gladly take the car and sell it!

and so i did! one iX3 build requested!

in terms of gas car depreciation ... i bought my M550i at a discount of 40% off list price, a demo with 1000 miles on the clock. so 5 series is probably worse than EVs in terms of depreciation where i live ... i'm going back to my M550i for now DD

[G30M]

Originally Posted by Altamate

Tesla Model 3 AWD performance is better in most situations and at least $10,000 cheaper, a 800km trip in the Winter to somewhere remote like my Daughter’s house in is almost irresponsible or foolish.

agreed!

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by JeffinOregon

The current oil crisis/kleptocracy has made me reconsider EV ownership. On a BMW owner’s survey, I indicated that I would hold out for internal combustion engines basically as long as possible, and sadly that’s no longer the case.

Anyone else having a change of heart?

Have not had a change of heart.

But I have recently -- within the last couple of days -- begun to seriously look into getting a BEV.

Since retiring and no longer facing a 60 mile a day commute but rather just short around town trips rather than an ICE vehicle my daily driver usage I think calls for a BEV. No worry about short trips and the more frequent servicing an ICE vehicle needs when used in this manner.

While I live in a rented townhouse with an attached garage with no battery charger 240VAC wall outlet present I see some neighbors' garages have a 240VAC wall outlet present and I also note they have Tesla 3 model 3s. So it appears that a battery charger wall outlet can be installed -- will talk to the manager of the place at 9am about this -- and if I can get a wall outlet installed means I can charge the BEV at home. And that eliminates the one thing that was holding me off getting a BEV.

However, while I am perfectly willing to trade in my 2024 Honda Ridgeline (which has been my daily driver since early January 2025) I am not willing to dispose of my 2024 M8 Comp Coupe. Have owned the M8 since mid November 2024 and really like the car. So I will continue to own/operate/enjoy an ICE vehicle.

If I opt for a BEV and I'm seriously considering a 2026 BMW i4 xDrive40 (I have 3 on my short list) I believe I will break my string of purchasing my vehicles and instead opt for a 3 year 10K miles/year lease. Since purchasing the Ridgeline in early January 2025 I have put just 10,350 miles on it as of a day or so ago. So I think 10K miles per year is sufficient for my needs. And I can and in fact do use the M8 for some errands.

So later today I will talk to the complex manager about the wall outlet. If it is doable then I will speak to my insurance agent and get some quotes on insurance. I don't expect any real horrid premium spike (like what I experienced with my M8 but I got a quote for the M8 and I knew before I bought it what it would cost me in insurance) but I just want to know before I sign on the dotted line what insurance costs for a leased BEV and a more expensive car than the Ridgeline and more expensive I'm sure to repair if God forbid...

So if things go well maybe as early as tomorrow I'll be seriously engaged in getting a BEV.

[dcstep]

Originally Posted by Altamate

I have 20 panels on my roof, EV’s need more range and there needs to be more fast chargers before I’m replacing my ICE stuff.

Well, doesn't it make sense for you to have one DD driver for commuting or around town? Energy usage for miles will help you amortize the cost of you investment in solar panels.

My 3600 sq ft house is efficient, thanks to insulation and triple-pane windows, etc. costing me only $150 per month for electricity. Hence, I can't justify the cost of the panels for my home, even after tax credits.

I came close to buying a hybrid for my wife, but couldn't find the right options that we wanted in a hybrid.

[Phillies8008]

My experience as someone who's actually driven an i4 for over 2.5 years now.

The good:

1) Incredibly quiet and smooth ride and nutso torque. This is just a remarkably comfortable car to drive and can be stupid fun at the drop of a hat. After being in an EV for a while it's amazing how loud ICE cars are when you're in one again.

2) Not really having to fuel is pretty nice. I can, if I choose, pull out of the garage each morning with a full "tank" – just plug the car in when I get home and unplug it in the morning. 30 seconds, at best, to refuel.

3) One-pedal driving. After you get used to it, which took me less than a day, it's really cool. I find it very hard to explain exactly why, but I find it to give me a lot of the same feel as driving a manual in an ICE vehicle. I think it just feels like you're more in control of what the car is doing.

4) Low to no maintenance. My two-year service consisted of them changing brake fluid, and I really doubt it even needed that. One-pedal driving uses almost no mechanical braking, and even using the brake pedal the car is mostly using regen anyway, so the brakes on this car are going to last a very, very long time. Having far less moving parts than ICE means far less things to go wrong, The bugaboo that everyone loves to bring up, the battery, is warrantied for 8 years and 100,000 miles so it's really not much of a concern. On top of that, it's pretty much proven to be a non-issue as EVs on the road have aged.

5) Range. This may seem like an odd thing to include since it's a major concern for everyone that talks about EVs. But here's the thing: 98% of the time range is of absolutely zero concern to me. The vast majority of my automobile usage is to and from work, errands, etc. The i4's range is such that this is just never an issue – I'd have to really try to make it one. I really only bother to charge once or twice a week, which is more than enough for what I do.

The bad:

1) Range. I will be the first to admit that when traveling, today's EVs are more inconvenient than ICE. They just are. While I haven't found it to be hugely inconvenient, I won't lie and pretend that there isn't something there. The more rabid EV proponents will point out that charging an EV doesn't really take all that much longer, if any longer, than an ICE refueling stop when you factor in time at the pump, going inside to use the bathroom, grab a snack, etc. But here's the thing: I don't always do those things when I'm refueling an ICE vehicle, and I don't want to get a snack every two or three hours. In all honesty, if I traveled a lot I probably wouldn't want to be driving an EV. Fortunately, I don't.

2) The cost of level 3 charging. For anyone unaware, there are three levels of charing for EVs: level 1 is using a regular household socket, level 2 is using a 240-volt socket (like the one your dryer uses), and level 3 is high voltage and only found at charging stations. Level 3 charging is great because it's pretty fast – think 20-30 mintues for a full charge vs 6-8 hours on level 2 at home. This is how you want to charge when you're traveling. But here's the rub: at the end of the day level 3 charging isn't really any cheaper than gas (at least before the Iran BS). If you have to use level 3 chargers on a regular basis, you're really not going to save anything over ICE.

3) The visceral feeling of an ICE engine. How much this matters depends on you, but there's no denying that an EV just doesn't have that feeling of a nice inline six or whatever. Practically speaking this really doesn't matter, but it's something. I have found ways to mitigate this, lol, which I'll go into presently.

4) Depreciation. Yep, EVs depreciate pretty steeply in today's market. The smart move is to either buy lightly used or lease. I lease, so whatever. But it's a thing if you're going to buy new and don't plan on having the car for a fairly long-term. Of course, flipping any luxury car after a few years is a losing proposition to begin with, and EVs just somewhat more so.

5) Cold weather. EV range absolutely declines in cold weather; I see about a 20-30% loss during the winter. How much this realistically effects you depends on where you live and how much range actually matters for your use case. For me, it really just means I charge a couple of times a week more than during warm weather months, and in the end really doesn't make much a practical difference for me. YMMV. Literally.

6) Charging, maybe. If you have a home that can accomodate charging, this is a complete non-issue. If you do not, it's a huge issue. Bottom line: if I could not use level 2 charging at my home I would not buy an EV. Trying to rely on charging somewhere other than home would suck, and to my mind relying on level 1 charging is a complete non-starter. Some people do it and will tell you it's fine, to to my mind it's completely impractical and far too slow to use on a daily basis.

7) Tires. EVs are heavy and heavy things produce more friction than lighter things. More friction wears tires faster. Sad trombone. My situation is a little weird in that I've been swapping between the summers that came on the car and all seasons, so haven't needed new tires yet. If I were using the same set I imagine I would've needed to change them somewhere between the two-year mark and now (almost 2.5 years). Of course, given how heavy ICE cars are getting to be, this is less of a difference as time goes by. But you're going to go through tires quicker on an EV.

Here's the thing about EVs: at the end of the day they're cars and really not all that much different than an ICE vehicle. Switching to one isn't some kind of life-altering experience and the sky does not, in fact, fall if you buy one. Too many people fall prey to hyperbole and hysteria when discussing them.

My strong recommendation is to give serious, realistic thought to your actual use case when considering an EV. Too many people dismiss them because of range and charging concerns when the reality is that those will only be an issue a few times a year; it's kind of like the people who convince themselves they need an enormous SUV/truck because they pick up some wood from Home Depot twice a year. Instead of dismissing them out of hand because the well has been poisoned by people with an axe to grind, go test drive one and give it a fair shot – you might just be surprised. My strong contention for quite a while has been that the people who scream loudest about EVs being terrible have never actually driven one.

At the end of the day, an EV might not work for you. You may travel long distances on a regular basis. You may not be able to charge at home. You may have the need to tow on a regular basis. But for a lot of people they make a lot of sense and should seriously be considered. Being closed-minded towards them, or anything else for that matter, doesn't do yourself any favors.

Now with regards to scratching that ICE-itch: my prescription is to have both, lol. The i4 is my daily driver and I've got two six-cylinder manual transmission ICE vehicles for when it's time to have fun. That's the way to go.

[freakystyly]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

I don't expect any real horrid premium spike (like what I experienced with my M8 but I got a quote for the M8 and I knew before I bought it what it would cost me in insurance) but I just want to know before I sign on the dotted line what insurance costs for a leased BEV and a more expensive car than the Ridgeline and more expensive I'm sure to repair if God forbid...

Seldom mentioned... every person/city/state/country is different but it's hard to totally skip over insurance premiums when considering an EV.

[JeffinOregon]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

Have not had a change of heart.

But I have recently -- within the last couple of days -- begun to seriously look into getting a BEV.


So later today I will talk to the complex manager about the wall outlet. If it is doable then I will speak to my insurance agent and get some quotes on insurance. I don't expect any real horrid premium spike (like what I experienced with my M8 but I got a quote for the M8 and I knew before I bought it what it would cost me in insurance) but I just want to know before I sign on the dotted line what insurance costs for a leased BEV and a more expensive car than the Ridgeline and more expensive I'm sure to repair if God forbid...

So if things go well maybe as early as tomorrow I'll be seriously engaged in getting a BEV.

The main advantage of a dedicated charger is speed. Particularly if your EV usage is limited range (local), the need for a dedicated charging setup is not as high. You can basically choose between a standard house outlet and a 240V type that’s often used for clothes dryers and refrigerators/freezers. The capability to power these outlets already exists in your home.

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by vt100

A good fun hybrid is a much better solution in this case.
But a hybrid with manual is unbeatable!

Is there a fun hybrid with a manual? I beg your finest pardon for the rock I've been living under.

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

Is there a fun hybrid with a manual?

Very few hybrid manuals, let alone "fun". The Honda CRZ was aimed exactly at that (CRX/del Sol fun with a hybrid powertrain), but it's wasn't much of a success.

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by Ohio Enthusiast

Very few hybrid manuals, let alone "fun". The Honda CRZ was aimed exactly at that (CRX/del Sol fun with a hybrid powertrain), but it's wasn't much of a success.

That car was such a letdown. Needed about 100hp more tbh. Could have been such a hit.

[Phillies8008]

Originally Posted by freakystyly

Seldom mentioned... every person/city/state/country is different but it's hard to totally skip over insurance premiums when considering an EV.

Comparing insurance rates is close to useless because of the extreme variability and number of factors that determine underwriting rates. My insurance, for instance, barely moved when we removed two ICE vehicles and added two EVs. Yours might jump $200 a month. Or fall. Or do nothing. The only way you'll know is by getting it quoted.

[W2k]

Originally Posted by Altamate

Charging stations break down in cold weather and battery life is reduced in cold weather. I would be able to charge at home for free( solar panels on the house) but do not like that our long distance trip car could be stuck in a line up for a charging station when it is -25C outside.

Perhaps they build them differently; they seem to be holding up just fine here. I did a ~800 km trip in my i5 just this winter and saw temperatures below -35 °C on several occasions. As you can imagine I had to make an extra charging stop as the range was reduced, but the car and all chargers performed flawlessly, and there are enough of them to go around even in the sparsely populated bits of country.

[W2k]

Originally Posted by Phillies8008

6) Charging, maybe. If you have a home that can accomodate charging, this is a complete non-issue. If you do not, it's a huge issue. Bottom line: if I could not use level 2 charging at my home I would not buy an EV. Trying to rely on charging somewhere other than home would suck, and to my mind relying on level 1 charging is a complete non-starter. Some people do it and will tell you it's fine, to to my mind it's completely impractical and far too slow to use on a daily basis.

First of all, great post, you covered the pros and cons well.

I charge (level 3) at my nearest Costco, as the parking lot has a bunch of superchargers. Since I go there every week-ish anyway, I can live without charging at home just fine, and it's still cheaper mileage than a gas or diesel car.

Once EV ownership passes a certain % it probably starts making more economic sense for all kinds of stores to install chargers in their parking lots - it's an additional revenue stream, after all. I hope this will be the case for the US as well, if it isn't already, since there must be quite a few people who can't charge at home but whose driving habits are perfectly suited for an EV.

[Altamate]

Originally Posted by dcstep

Well, doesn't it make sense for you to have one DD driver for commuting or around town? Energy usage for miles will help you amortize the cost of you investment in solar panels.

My 3600 sq ft house is efficient, thanks to insulation and triple-pane windows, etc. costing me only $150 per month for electricity. Hence, I can't justify the cost of the panels for my home, even after tax credits.

I came close to buying a hybrid for my wife, but couldn't find the right options that we wanted in a hybrid.

I have a two car garage and three vehicles now, a classic car(hobby car) our 440GC and a pick up truck I need for my part time retirement job and also use to haul our boat. I don’t really have much room for a fourth vehicle, If I replace the 440 it locks us into using the Truck for long trips. I have considered it, but I guess saving all the fuel costs in DD situations is not worth the lifestyle change at this time. An electric truck is just stupid range wise or I’d consider one of those too.

Once there is a bunch more fast charger infrastructure around here or battery range improves a little more, I’ll reconsider.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by Phillies8008

My experience as someone who's actually driven an i4 for over 2.5 years now.

3) The visceral feeling of an ICE engine. How much this matters depends on you, but there's no denying that an EV just doesn't have that feeling of a nice inline six or whatever. Practically speaking this really doesn't matter, but it's something. I have found ways to mitigate this, lol, which I'll go into presently.

4) Depreciation. Yep, EVs depreciate pretty steeply in today's market. The smart move is to either buy lightly used or lease. I lease, so whatever. But it's a thing if you're going to buy new and don't plan on having the car for a fairly long-term. Of course, flipping any luxury car after a few years is a losing proposition to begin with, and EVs just somewhat more so.

that's the thing i don't get. i've had many many ICE cars to get me the "visceral feeling". of all the cars, the only time that gives visceral feeling is on a race track. and since i don't drive on the race track at all, i have not gotten enough visceral feeling from any of my cars. maybe i bought the wrong car.

• my M340i & M550i - car takes a while to move from standstill, unless i brake boost. doesn't give me power until 4500rpm, eases up at 5500rpm. it's like bad sex. however when overtaking car after car on canyon roads at 4000-5500rpm band, yeah baby. that's about 1% of the time. but the cars are so insulated the only noise i hear is fake engine sound - which is terrible on the M340i, and very good on the M550i.
• so i bought a Suzuki Swift manual (Nurburgring's favourite Ring car). same problem. turbo won't come into boost and doesn't have enough power to launch. can't hear anything engine too quite. felt like the car would crumple in an accident. sold it after 3 months. but the 6 speed manual was amazing to wrestle (yeah the drivetrain was built like a race car everythnig felt made of lead block and bullet proof)
• the most visceral feeling in a car i've ever owned was a 1.2L NA 5 speed manual Honda Civic 2 door hatch 1992. everything was instant, no computers, no insulation so you can hear the nice engine, but i don't miss that car LOL!!!
• i thought about trying Porsche PDK NA or Turbo - so i read the Porsche forums and surprise surprise .... they complain of the same things! - same issues as above!
• but yes on a race track when you don't do start stop, where you are always moving and you can keep engine at the optimal power band, it must be an amazing visceral feeling. still a pipe dream for me.
• with my EV, everything is instant. but numb feeling. also like bad sex, different kind. maybe they will tune the numbness out with some clever engineering - wish i could try the Ioniq 5N for example.
• but the EV also comes with things you don't get on ICE. no service cost (all my EVs cost me $50 to service every year). i don't have to smell shit. i have instant heat in winter. no noise i can actually hear the sound system. no body roll in corners - yeah beat that!, amazing suspension comfort (last thing you'd think right, but nope), very very very comfortable when made right. like a moving couch. and I only have Kia EVs (EV9, EV6). imagine if Kia can do it, BMW should be better ... just made an order for the iX3 but not sure if i'll actually buy it - depends on the war duration and if there is still oil coming into my country in 9 months when i expect the iX3 to land ...

depreciation - i just sold my 1 year old EV for exactly 10% more than I bought it! thanks to war FOMO. i bought it cheap when nobody wanted one, now for some reason everybody wants one, i sold my Kia EV9 in less than 24 hrs of listing it to a family who have never considered an EV. meanwhile my BMW 5 series depreciated 40% in the first year ... all cars depreciate, also whether EV or ICE is better is situational, and depreciation is also situational

[Altamate]

Originally Posted by W2k

Perhaps they build them differently; they seem to be holding up just fine here. I did a ~800 km trip in my i5 just this winter and saw temperatures below -35 °C on several occasions. As you can imagine I had to make an extra charging stop as the range was reduced, but the car and all chargers performed flawlessly, and there are enough of them to go around even in the sparsely populated bits of country.

When there are a bunch more charging stations built on the travelways around here I will reconsider, I would also need to install a Level 2 station at my Daughters home but that is not a deal breaker.

[Altamate]

Originally Posted by W2k

First of all, great post, you covered the pros and cons well.

I charge (level 3) at my nearest Costco, as the parking lot has a bunch of superchargers. Since I go there every week-ish anyway, I can live without charging at home just fine, and it's still cheaper mileage than a gas or diesel car.

Once EV ownership passes a certain % it probably starts making more economic sense for all kinds of stores to install chargers in their parking lots - it's an additional revenue stream, after all. I hope this will be the case for the US as well, if it isn't already, since there must be quite a few people who can't charge at home but whose driving habits are perfectly suited for an EV.

We have 5 Costcos in my city, pretty sure none have charging and Costcos only exist in large city’s.

P.S. I googled it, the newest Costco has just built a gas station that is suppose to have EV charging.

[Phillies8008]

Originally Posted by G30M

that's the thing i don't get. i've had many many ICE cars to get me the "visceral feeling". of all the cars, the only time that gives visceral feeling is on a race track. and since i don't drive on the race track at all, i have not gotten enough visceral feeling from any of my cars. maybe i bought the wrong car.

• my M340i & M550i - car takes a while to move from standstill, unless i brake boost. doesn't give me power until 4500rpm, eases up at 5500rpm. it's like bad sex. however when overtaking car after car on canyon roads at 4000-5500rpm band, yeah baby. that's about 1% of the time. but the cars are so insulated the only noise i hear is fake engine sound - which is terrible on the M340i, and very good on the M550i.
• so i bought a Suzuki Swift manual (Nurburgring's favourite Ring car). same problem. turbo won't come into boost and doesn't have enough power to launch. can't hear anything engine too quite. felt like the car would crumple in an accident. sold it after 3 months. but the 6 speed manual was amazing to wrestle (yeah the drivetrain was built like a race car everythnig felt made of lead block and bullet proof)
• the most visceral feeling in a car i've ever owned was a 1.2L NA 5 speed manual Honda Civic 2 door hatch 1992. everything was instant, no computers, no insulation so you can hear the nice engine, but i don't miss that car LOL!!!
• i thought about trying Porsche PDK NA or Turbo - so i read the Porsche forums and surprise surprise .... they complain of the same things! - same issues as above!
• but yes on a race track when you don't do start stop, where you are always moving and you can keep engine at the optimal power band, it must be an amazing visceral feeling. still a pipe dream for me.
• with my EV, everything is instant. but numb feeling. also like bad sex, different kind. maybe they will tune the numbness out with some clever engineering - wish i could try the Ioniq 5N for example.
• but the EV also comes with things you don't get on ICE. no service cost (all my EVs cost me $50 to service every year). i don't have to smell shit. i have instant heat in winter. no noise i can actually hear the sound system. no body roll in corners - yeah beat that!, amazing suspension comfort (last thing you'd think right, but nope), very very very comfortable when made right. like a moving couch. and I only have Kia EVs (EV9, EV6). imagine if Kia can do it, BMW should be better ... just made an order for the iX3 but not sure if i'll actually buy it - depends on the war duration and if there is still oil coming into my country in 9 months when i expect the iX3 to land ...

depreciation - i just sold my 1 year old EV for exactly 10% more than I bought it! thanks to war FOMO. i bought it cheap when nobody wanted one, now for some reason everybody wants one, i sold my Kia EV9 in less than 24 hrs of listing it to a family who have never considered an EV. meanwhile my BMW 5 series depreciated 40% in the first year ... all cars depreciate, also whether EV or ICE is better is situational, and depreciation is also situational

What's "visceral" and to what degree it matters is clearly very subjective. For me, driving my Z4M produces a very visceral reaction, even on regular 'ol roads, that an EV can't reproduce – and I love my EV! I can only speak to my experience and reactions; everyone's will differ. I also wouldn't call my i4 "numb" in any regard, but again, subjectivity.

Insofar as EV depreciation goes, I'm very much talking about the US market since that's where I am. Here the depreciation curve is very real and no one is selling an EV for 10% more than they bought it. While I expect that the amount of depreciation will lessen over time, I don't foresee it getting to that level in the US for a long time, probably never. I mean, there are almost no cars, ICE or EV, that appreciate in value.

[Phillies8008]

Originally Posted by Altamate

I have a two car garage and three vehicles now, a classic car(hobby car) our 440GC and a pick up truck I need for my part time retirement job and also use to haul our boat. I don’t really have much room for a fourth vehicle, If I replace the 440 it locks us into using the Truck for long trips. I have considered it, but I guess saving all the fuel costs in DD situations is not worth the lifestyle change at this time. An electric truck is just stupid range wise or I’d consider one of those too.

Once there is a bunch more fast charger infrastructure around here or battery range improves a little more, I’ll reconsider.

Perhaps paradoxically, the level 3 charging situation near you doesn't matter in the least (unless you're relying on it to charge regularly, which you shouldn't IMO). Where it matters is on the routes you frequently travel when taking a trip, and possibly at your destination. There could be 200 level 3 chargers within 10 miles of my home and it wouldn't matter – I'd never use them. But having enough of them on the route I take when we go to the beach, for example, is very helpful. Honestly, the only charging that really matters when you're not traveling is the charging in your garage (or whatever).

Towing with an EV truck is, IMO, a no-go right now unless the distance you tow is minor. Just too much loss of range – physics wins that one.

Unless you take a lot of trips, I wouldn't let them really factor in my decision as to whether or not to buy an EV, unless perhaps you go to very remote places. Again, I think you should think about the majority of your use case, not a small minority. That's what's going to matter most by far, and taking trips in an EV is extremely doable – just a little bit slower. I haven't been dissuaded from taking any trips since I've had one.

That being said, if you don't have a real need to replace the 440 I very much doubt that gas savings alone would make it worth doing so. If you're going to do it at all, I'd wait until you were ready to move on from the car regardless of what fuel technology you go with.