Still want an EV? (NO POLITICS)

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by gblansten

There is going to be so much tension with Dems in the US trying to balance auto unions and the green push.

Not really The Dems are already screwing the unions on the Green New Dud.

The UAW president has denounced the wage scale at Ultium, General Motors’ joint venture with LG in Lordstown, Ohio.

Workers there start at $16.50 an hour, with a seven-year progression to $20. When he visited workers at the plant, Fain said he had breakfast at a Waffle House across the street where the starting pay was $18.

Ultium’s Lordstown plant is near the site of a former GM assembly plant which shut down in 2019. Long-term production workers there earned around $31 an hour.

The union is gearing up for a fight with Stellantis, which announced plans in April to cut 3,500 skilled and production jobs and offer buyouts to 33,000 hourly workers. It idled its plant in Belvidere, Illinois, in February, knocking 1,350 workers out of work indefinitely.

https://labornotes.org/2023/05/batte...-uaw-president

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Not really The Dems are already screwing the unions on the Green New Dud.

The UAW president has denounced the wage scale at Ultium, General Motors’ joint venture with LG in Lordstown, Ohio.

Workers there start at $16.50 an hour, with a seven-year progression to $20. When he visited workers at the plant, Fain said he had breakfast at a Waffle House across the street where the starting pay was $18.

Ultium’s Lordstown plant is near the site of a former GM assembly plant which shut down in 2019. Long-term production workers there earned around $31 an hour.

The union is gearing up for a fight with Stellantis, which announced plans in April to cut 3,500 skilled and production jobs and offer buyouts to 33,000 hourly workers. It idled its plant in Belvidere, Illinois, in February, knocking 1,350 workers out of work indefinitely.

https://labornotes.org/2023/05/batte...-uaw-president

Great response. I think tension will come as the financial weight of the EV mandates takes more of a toll on legacy auto. We will see. Maybe they hang the unions out to dry.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by gblansten

Great response. I think tension will come as the financial weight of the EV mandates takes more of a toll on legacy auto. We will see. Maybe they hang the unions out to dry.

The real battle here is the pressure institutional investors are under to have ESG compliant portfolios. BlackRock and Vanguard say they are becoming less stringent but talk is cheap. The automotive business is powered by $$$ not energy.

[Car-Addicted]

Because some times we need a good laugh.
Florida man arrested after trying to travel across Atlantic in 'human-powered hamster wheel'

The Coast Guard has arrested a Florida man for attempting to cross the Atlantic Ocean in a "human-powered hamster wheel," according to court documents.

Reza Baluchi was 70 miles off the Georgia coastline when officers discovered him during a "manifestly unsafe voyage." He was apparently out there while Hurricane Franklin was headed toward the sea, according to the Coast Guard's statement on X.

The release mentioned that Baluchi was arrested August 28 after a "bizarre three-day standoff" with the authorities.

NBC News reported the Coast Guard said that Baluchi refused to get off his invention, revealing "two knives and threatened to hurt himself" if officers decided to board the vessel. The man also "threatened to blow himself up," which prompted the Coast Guard to contact the Navy to determine the location of the explosive. But Baluchi eventually said that there was no bomb.



Aren't we all on a "manifestly unsafe voyage."?

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Because some times we need a good laugh.
Florida man arrested after trying to travel across Atlantic in 'human-powered hamster wheel'

The Coast Guard has arrested a Florida man for attempting to cross the Atlantic Ocean in a "human-powered hamster wheel," according to court documents.

Reza Baluchi was 70 miles off the Georgia coastline when officers discovered him during a "manifestly unsafe voyage." He was apparently out there while Hurricane Franklin was headed toward the sea, according to the Coast Guard's statement on X.

The release mentioned that Baluchi was arrested August 28 after a "bizarre three-day standoff" with the authorities.

NBC News reported the Coast Guard said that Baluchi refused to get off his invention, revealing "two knives and threatened to hurt himself" if officers decided to board the vessel. The man also "threatened to blow himself up," which prompted the Coast Guard to contact the Navy to determine the location of the explosive. But Baluchi eventually said that there was no bomb.



Aren't we all on a "manifestly unsafe voyage."?

If you made this up no one would believe it. But Florida Man just says,”hold my beer”.

[gblansten]

Schmee makes some valid points about the lag in the EV charging infrastructure build out in this video. You can skip around but I can't argue with his points. Main discussion on this is around the 9 minute mark. I have only charged at home and use my car locally. That works very well for me. But I realize that is not going to work for so many people.

[Car-Addicted]

And the Green Grift grows. Good news is everything the government incentivises gets considerably more expensive lilke, Medical care, Education, ect. By the time the government gets done a Volt will be $75,000.00 but hey you will get 12,500 back in a rebate.

The proposal, potentially part of President Biden’s $2 trillion infrastructure plan, would continue at the amount of $7,500 but include a boost of $2,500 for models that are assembled in the U.S., plus another $2,500 if the vehicles are made with production workers represented by a labor union.

The Chevrolet Bolt EUV, for instance, would be eligible for a whopping $12,500 because it’s union-made in Michigan, while U.S. Tesla models would be eligible for $10,000 as they’re made in California but not by union labor.

And an expansion of the credit might not be all that’s in the works. President Biden has been suggesting that point-of-sale incentives might also be part of his plan, and there hasn’t yet been information from the Senate on how this might be reconciled.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news...or-and-us-made

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

And the Green Grift grows. Good news is everything the government incentivises gets considerably more expensive lilke, Medical care, Education, ect. By the time the government gets done a Volt will be $75,000.00 but hey you will get 12,500 back in a rebate.

The proposal, potentially part of President Biden’s $2 trillion infrastructure plan, would continue at the amount of $7,500 but include a boost of $2,500 for models that are assembled in the U.S., plus another $2,500 if the vehicles are made with production workers represented by a labor union.

The Chevrolet Bolt EUV, for instance, would be eligible for a whopping $12,500 because it’s union-made in Michigan, while U.S. Tesla models would be eligible for $10,000 as they’re made in California but not by union labor.

And an expansion of the credit might not be all that’s in the works. President Biden has been suggesting that point-of-sale incentives might also be part of his plan, and there hasn’t yet been information from the Senate on how this might be reconciled.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news...or-and-us-made

I think that 2021 article is out of date. The Green New Deal Bill No. 1 err... The Inflation Reduction Act, has similar but different tax incentives rules now set in place. Just going from memory, the $7,500 credit is the max, but now uncapped from unit sales count. However, there are caveats where the EV has to be built in the USA (i.e. under the USMCA). The credit is tiered based on where the EV battery is made and where the minerals are sourced. The incentives based on mineral sourcing is graduated starting in 2024. Also, the US content of the manufactured car is graduated starting in 2024 that increases the content percent over time to define what Made-in-the-USA means. So right now that means a Tesla Model Y is eligible for $7,500 while the Mustang Mach E only gets $3,750 (because the battery is outsourced).

Also, the credit can be applied at the point of sale (one of my issues with the original credit rules), but that doesn't kick in until 2024 (IIRC) to let the Feds and the industry figure out how to implement the credit at the time of sale. And the EV rebate can be applied to second tier sales of used EVs (IIRC it maxed at $3,250). This is a one-time used EV sale rebate, meaning the 3rd-tier used sale (i.e. second time the EV gets sold used) is not eligible for a tax credit.

While I am completely against the EV tax rebates scheme, I will say Congress did put some thought into the legislation to preserve and promote USA manufacturing. The union part did not make it into the final version of the legislation, that truly would have set the table for runaway EV pricing as you have concern. Again, this is from my memory, there may be a few inaccuratcies in the details, but that is the gist of it.

[KRS_SN]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I think that 2021 article is out of date. The Green New Deal Bill No. 1 err... The Inflation Reduction Act, has similar but different tax incentives rules now set in place. Just going from memory, the $7,500 credit is the max, but now uncapped from unit sales count. However, there are caveats where the EV has to be built in the USA (i.e. under the USMCA). The credit is tiered based on where the EV battery is made and where the minerals are sourced. The incentives based on mineral sourcing is graduated starting in 2024. Also, the US content of the manufactured car is graduated starting in 2024 that increases the content percent over time to define what Made-in-the-USA means. So right now that means a Tesla Model Y is eligible for $7,500 while the Mustang Mach E only gets $3,750 (because the battery is outsourced).

Also, the credit can be applied at the point of sale (one of my issues with the original credit rules), but that doesn't kick in until 2024 (IIRC) to let the Feds and the industry figure out how to implement the credit at the time of sale. And the EV rebate can be applied to second tier sales of used EVs (IIRC it maxed at $3,250). This is a one-time used EV sale rebate, meaning the 3rd-tier used sale (i.e. second time the EV gets sold used) is not eligible for a tax credit.

While I am completely against the EV tax rebates scheme, I will say Congress did put some thought into the legislation to preserve and promote USA manufacturing. The union part did not make it into the final version of the legislation, that truly would have set the table for [...]

The way I see it china is where most of the battery and ev are made from. Only us made ev qualify for the federal tax credit. How is this protecting us interest. Chinese ev thats cheaper and has more features may sell much cheaper than us made ev and customers are savvy regarding the bottomline.

[P1]

Interesting article in the WSJ about EV rental cars. My local Avis has nothing but horror stories about folks running out of juice, not wanting to rent them or issues charging them when they get returned empty.

https://www.wsj.com/lifestyle/travel...ts_pos9&page=1

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I think that 2021 article is out of date.

My bad I should have caught that.
The union aspect was what I was looking for when I came upon this article. I think the democrats have to make a choice between the Green Grift and the Union Grift. But there is always the Ukrainian Grift to fall back on.

[Car-Addicted]

Feel Good Story of the Day! Odd how this story isn't found in Main Street Media publications.

Family Calls Police on Energy Department Staffer as Jennifer Granholm’s EV Caravan Bogarts Charging Station During 4-Day Road Trip
11/09/2023
Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm and some of her staffers set out on a 4-day electric vehicle road trip through the Southeast this summer.

There was trouble in EV paradise as the caravan of electric vehicles began to run out of charge as they passed through a suburb of Augusta, Georgia.

Energy Department staffers pulled over to charge their fleet when they realized there weren’t enough available fast-charging plugs to juice up their vehicles.

One of the four chargers was broken and the other plugs were in use.

Her advance team realized there weren’t going to be enough plugs to go around. One of the station’s four chargers was broken, and others were occupied. So an Energy Department staffer tried parking a nonelectric vehicle by one of those working chargers to reserve a spot for the approaching secretary of energy.

In fact, a family that was boxed out — on a sweltering day, with a baby in the vehicle — was so upset they decided to get the authorities involved: They called the police.

The sheriff’s office couldn’t do anything. It’s not illegal for a non-EV to claim a charging spot in Georgia.

https://politicom.com.au/family-call...day-road-trip/

I declare today as National Park Your ICE Vehicle in EV Charging Station Day.

[G30M]

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by g21

Instead of sitting on roads all day with placards and wasting courts time Greta should go to Nigeria and help the boys in extracting cobalt for her clean enviro project.

[Efthreeoh]

If you have time, this is an interesting read.

https://www.macheforum.com/site/thre...station.30462/

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

If you have time, this is an interesting read.

https://www.macheforum.com/site/thre...station.30462/

Made it to page 10. What a bunch of losers. Odd not one comment about "maybe this electric thing isn't what it cracked up to be?" More cultish behavior.

First are The EV'ers so naive to think the rate of charge and even the charge it's self will not change based on the available power?

Second why do the EV companies say don't charge to 100%? It's because there is no cell balancing. There is pack balancing but not individual cells (as best as I can tell) Continuing to charge a cell that is at 100% is how thermal runaways start. Charging to 80% avoids that. Also the charge rate generally reduces above 80%. The concept of occasionally charging at 100% to "allow the batteries to self equalize" is laughable. Put a marginal battery in a device that holds several batteries and see how that works for you. Also cells have greater varience the more charge cycles they experience and the level of abuse they experience.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Made it to page 10. What a bunch of losers. Odd not one comment about "maybe this electric thing isn't what it cracked up to be?" More cultish behavior.

First are The EV'ers so naive to think the rate of charge and even the charge it's self will not change based on the available power?

Second why do the EV companies say don't charge to 100%? It's because there is no cell balancing. There is pack balancing but not individual cells (as best as I can tell) Continuing to charge a cell that is at 100% is how thermal runaways start. Charging to 80% avoids that. Also the charge rate generally reduces above 80%. The concept of occasionally charging at 100% to "allow the batteries to self equalize" is laughable. Put a marginal battery in a device that holds several batteries and see how that works for you. Also cells have greater varience the more charge cycles they experience and the level of abuse they experience.

That was my thought too, no one said maybe we should rethink the EV thing. It's kind of why I posted the link. The dynamic is a bit cultish.

It's like the emperors clothes, we all see it, they don't. Once a person drops $50K into a vehicle, most people are not going to admit to a major flaw in the design, the charging issue.

[Socal_R8]

love my gas burners, but smart enough to realize the reality....EV's are not the devil, despite big oil's fake studies and fake stories that tell you they are.

here is a great article by Motor Trend that breaks it down for you and who is behind all of the ignorance being spewed on here about EV's....not hard to figure out why they are doing it, but obviously it is working on some...




You're Being Lied to About Electric Cars

https://www.motortrend.com/features/...being-lied-to/

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX

love my gas burners, but smart enough to realize the reality....EV's are not the devil, despite big oil's fake studies and fake stories that tell you they are.

here is a great article by Motor Trend that breaks it down for you and who is behind all of the ignorance being spewed on here about EV's....not hard to figure out why they are doing it, but obviously it is working on some...

You're Being Lied to About Electric Cars

https://www.motortrend.com/features/...being-lied-to/

EVs are not the devil. Like I've said numerous times, EVs are part of automotive future, but they will not solely be the future. It's just not feasible. The future is EVs, hybrid, and other alternative energy sources. There is so much untapped potential with hybrids and even straight ICE for that matter. I'm all about efficiency, being a good steward of the environment, and innovation. Elon Musk has turned into a total freak show, but God bless the guy and his innovative mind and the big middle finger he gave to the automotive industry decades ago. We need more people that say "Why can't we do that?".

The MT article is decent, but still misses the mark and makes no real mention of the drastic losses in battery charge in harsh winter and summer temps. Yes, ICE motors suffer losses too in harsh conditions, but nothing like an EV. Lithium and cobalt mining is very damaging to the environment and extremely water and land intensive. I guarantee you that you don't want one of these within 20 miles of you home and have any connection to the water source you get your drinking water from. Then there's the whole charging infrastructure thing. I don't question that the electricity capacity is there, but to get it into millions of EVs in the US? Yeah, good luck. We're decades away from a halfway decent charging network for the masses.

I have a friend that got a Rivian R1S. He's an avid outdoors person. He took his family camping recently, the camping area 400 miles away. He was towing a 1,200lb camper as well. He had to charge every 150 miles and then stay plugged in while at the site using an RV 220v connection. My wife and I have gone to the same camp site before. It took us a crack over 6 hours to get there with stops in her 4runner. It took him almost 11 hours.

[Socal_R8]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

EVs are not the devil. Like I've said numerous times, EVs are part of automotive future, but they will not solely be the future. It's just not feasible. The future is EVs, hybrid, and other alternative energy sources. There is so much untapped potential with hybrids and even straight ICE for that matter. I'm all about efficiency, being a good steward of the environment, and innovation. Elon Musk has turned into a total freak show, but God bless the guy and his innovative mind and the big middle finger to the automotive industry. We need more people that say "Why can't we do that?".

The MT article is decent, but still misses the mark and makes no real mention of the drastic losses in battery charge in harsh winter and summer temps. Yes, ICE motors suffer losses too in harsh conditions, but nothing like an EV. Lithium and cobalt mining is very damaging to the environment and extremely water and land intensive. I guarantee you that you don't want one of these within 20 miles of you home and have any connection to the water source you get your drinking water from. Then there's the whole charging infrastructure thing. I don't question that the electricity capacity is there, but to get it into millions of EVs in the US. Yeah, good luck. We're decades away from a halfway decent charging network for the masses.

True, but think about it, EV's are still in their infancy right now and technology moves fast, They are already talking about 600-800 mile range batteries from Porsche, Tesla, Toyota, etc.. Tesla has already shown to have the charging station capabilities and the numbers grow everyday.... Gas prices keep going up and EV prices keep going down, we won't need a mandate by 2035

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX

True, but think about it, EV's are still in their infancy right now and technology moves fast, They are already talking about 600-800 mile range batteries from Porsche, Tesla, Toyota, etc.. Tesla has already shown to have the charging station capabilities and the numbers grow everyday.... Gas prices keep going up and EV prices keep going down, we won't need a mandate by 2035

Absolutely, the tech and battery capacity are moving very fast, but the amount of charging stations and all the infrastructure that needs to be constructed is astronomical. I live in Kansas City and the EV infrastructure is terrible. I travel all over the Midwest, both city and rural areas. Again, the infrastructure is largely non-existent, especially in more poor and "dangerous" areas. EVs will remain the vehicles of the more well off for a very long time.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Absolutely, the tech and battery capacity are moving very fast, but the amount of charging stations and all the infrastructure that needs to be constructed is astronomical. I live in Kansas City and the EV infrastructure is terrible. I travel all over the Midwest, both city and rural areas. Again, the infrastructure is largely non-existent, especially in more poor and "dangerous" areas. EVs will remain the vehicles of the more well off for a very long time.

There are over 1 Billion ICE vehicles on the planet. the notion that these can all be replaced with EV's is ludicrous. There is no infrastructure to support charging those numbers and we are decades away from having the production capability and charging infrastructure. Then there is the mining required to make the batteries etc. The comment that the battery tech is moving fast might be true but I really don't see a fast charge 800 mile battery being a reality in the next decade.