Still want an EV? (NO POLITICS)

[3798j]

After a lament was posted on another forum as to why songs about cars are no longer writen...e.g. "She's so fine, my 409", a reply was made with this:

"Chat GPT came up with this..."

(Verse 1)
Oh, electric cars, you're such a revelation,
Saving the world, that's your reputation.
With zero emissions, you're pure as a dove,
But let's dive in, and get real, my love.

(Chorus)
Electric vehicles, so perfect and green,
Like a unicorn dancing on a sunbeam.
But don't we all know, deep down inside,
There's more to your story, let's take a ride.

(Verse 2)
You charge up your batteries, so clean and neat,
But where do those minerals come from, complete?
Cobalt and lithium, mined far and wide,
Environmental damage, we try to hide.

(Chorus)
Electric vehicles, so perfect and green,
Like a rainbow made of soybean protein.
But don't we all know, deep down inside,
There's more to your story, let's take a ride.

(Verse 3)
Your batteries degrade, oh what a surprise,
Replacing them costs a pretty good size.
The rare earth metals, not so renewable,
Creating a mess, oh how undeniable.

(Chorus)
Electric vehicles, so perfect and green,
Like a tofu burger at the gasoline scene.
But don't we all know, deep down inside,
There's more to your story, let's take a ride.

(Bridge)
Now don't get me wrong, you're a step ahead,
Reducing emissions, turning things red.
But let's not forget, the power you use,
Comes from coal and gas, don't be confused.

(Chorus)
Electric vehicles, so perfect and green,
Like a vegan dessert with a cowhide sheen.
But don't we all know, deep down inside,
There's more to your story, let's take a ride.

(Outro)
So, electric cars, you've got some charm,
But let's not ignore the eco-harm.
We're moving forward, it's clear to see,
But perfection's a long, long way from thee.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by 3798j

After a lament was posted on another forum as to why songs about cars are no longer writen...e.g. "She's so fine, my 409", a reply was made with this:

"Chat GPT came up with this..."

(Verse 1)
Oh, electric cars, you're such a revelation,
Saving the world, that's your reputation.
With zero emissions, you're pure as a dove,
But let's dive in, and get real, my love.

(Chorus)
Electric vehicles, so perfect and green,
Like a unicorn dancing on a sunbeam.
But don't we all know, deep down inside,
There's more to your story, let's take a ride.

(Verse 2)
You charge up your batteries, so clean and neat,
But where do those minerals come from, complete?
Cobalt and lithium, mined far and wide,
Environmental damage, we try to hide.

(Chorus)
Electric vehicles, so perfect and green,
Like a rainbow made of soybean protein.
But don't we all know, deep down inside,
There's more to your story, let's take a ride.

(Verse 3)
Your batteries degrade, oh what a surprise,
Replacing them costs a pretty good size.
The rare earth metals, not so renewable,
Creating a mess, oh how undeniable.

(Chorus)
Electric vehicles, so perfect and green,
Like a tofu burger at the gasoline scene.
But don't we all know, deep down inside,
There's more to your story, let's take a ride.

(Bridge)
Now don't get me wrong, you're a step ahead,
Reducing emissions, turning things red.
But let's not forget, the power you use,
Comes from coal and gas, don't be confused.

(Chorus)
Electric vehicles, so perfect and green,
Like a vegan dessert with a cowhide sheen.
But don't we all know, deep down inside,
There's more to your story, let's take a ride.

(Outro)
So, electric cars, you've got some charm,
But let's not ignore the eco-harm.
We're moving forward, it's clear to see,
But perfection's a long, long way from thee.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

No not really. EV fan boys have been expounding their planet saving virtues for years, now we know it's a bold faced lie.

To manufacture each EV battery, you must process
25,000 pounds of brine for the lithium
30,000 pounds of ore for the cobalt
5,000 pounds of ore for the nickel
25,000 pounds of ore for copper
Digging up 500,000 pounds of the earth's crust

I'm way past allowing EV hypocrites to continue virtue signaling while they do massive damage to the planet.

there is no arguing any of this... it's pure fact... thats before we even get into how electricity is sourced

in capitalism its common to resolve problems that really don't exist as long as someone makes money lol

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by ASAP

in capitalism its common to resolve problems that really don't exist as long as someone makes money lol

What's going on here is a lot of things but one that it is NOT is Capitalism. This is play for control, a redistribution of wealth and side order of Grift and Greed or as I like to call it communism.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Are you familiar with the term "Lipstick on a Pig"

Not really C-A but you're doing great.
That grille conversion #3951 is akin to an M3 GT3, actually I wouldn't say no to that

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by kyriian

No, its not going to make it beautiful, it does rid a ton of the stock's issue

No
No
No
No and no.

And then an XM pic. I may get lunch up gurgle.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Are you familiar with the term "Lipstick on a Pig"

Derp

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by ASAP

its 33k not 40k for the cheapest... Almost in line with the Accord. Again, I don't think the Accord buyer is a Tesla Model 3 buyer for many reasons.



Correct... my example was the Performance model... the base model is 5.8 which is still vastly superior in terms of performance and handling to any Accord.

Again - not for everyone!! Especially if you do longer distance driving but an all around fun town car... i would go for it if thats all i wanted.

So the slow, base model Model 3, if you add real paint other than silver, and add non-ugly as fck wheels ($3K) total is $44,880. Take the tax rebate out and it's $37,380. However that $7,500 doesn't come out of the purchasing transaction, so the price is actually $44,880. So the loan and taxes is on a $44.8K car, not a $37,380 car. An Accord can be had for under $30,000.

Pages back I've run the numbers and posted about the real world price. The Model 3 doesn't break even with the Accord until 75,000 miles or so, even accounting for maintenance on the Honda. Then add in a Tesla level 2 charger for your home, which can be expensive if you have to upgrade the service at the house, or run a subpanel to the garage the financials get worse.

Someone buying a $30K Accord, doesn't have the cash for electric work and loaning themselves $7,500 until Uncle Sam passes out checks. They may rent and never charge at home. The Accord is 7 cubic feet bigger and refuels in 5 minutes for a 500 mile range. Unless the Model 3 has been vastly improved since 2018, I don't think it vastly out performs a Honda Accord in handling and cabin presence. at 5.8 seconds its a bit faster but who cares, in suburban traffic if the car in front of your Model 3 is an Accord or Camry (good chance) that's how fast you are leaving the traffic light.

That's reality.

[carseatsm5]

I could actually see a lot of overlap between Honda buyers and Tesla buyers. Both just want to buy the absolute most boring cars possible.

[br438]

https://www.wsmv.com/2023/09/06/fire...gallons-water/

Nissan leaf at NA headquarters... 45k gallons of water and 4 hours to put out.... Firefighters said there is just no good way... because it is a lot of (high density) stored energy.

I have a feeling we will look back at some point and think, "yep, seems obvious now".

[Sedoy]

It's actually quite the opposite, there is much, much more stored energy in a few gallons of gas vs. a typical Li-ion battery, pretty close to about 100 times more. EVs are just significantly more efficient at converting that energy into motion. But the real issue here is that Li-ion batteries generate oxygen internally when they burn, eliminating the requirement for external oxygen to maintain the fire. In the event of a lithium battery overheating, oxygen can be released, if there is a spark, it potentially can lead to a fire. As the fire heats neighboring cells, they too release more oxygen, setting off a dangerous and difficult to stop chain reaction. Nevertheless, EV fires are still relatively rare, but when they do occur, they can be quite spectacular...

Originally Posted by br438

https://www.wsmv.com/2023/09/06/fire...gallons-water/

Nissan leaf at NA headquarters... 45k gallons of water and 4 hours to put out.... Firefighters said there is just no good way... because it is a lot of (high density) stored energy.

I have a feeling we will look back at some point and think, "yep, seems obvious now".

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by br438

https://www.wsmv.com/2023/09/06/fire...gallons-water/

Nissan leaf at NA headquarters... 45k gallons of water and 4 hours to put out.... Firefighters said there is just no good way... because it is a lot of (high density) stored energy.

I have a feeling we will look back at some point and think, "yep, seems obvious now".

This at Nissan hq's, what if it was in a garage connected to a house.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

So the slow, base model Model 3, if you add real paint other than silver, and add non-ugly as fck wheels ($3K) total is $44,880. Take the tax rebate out and it's $37,380. However that $7,500 doesn't come out of the purchasing transaction, so the price is actually $44,880. So the loan and taxes is on a $44.8K car, not a $37,380 car. An Accord can be had for under $30,000.

Pages back I've run the numbers and posted about the real world price. The Model 3 doesn't break even with the Accord until 75,000 miles or so, even accounting for maintenance on the Honda. Then add in a Tesla level 2 charger for your home, which can be expensive if you have to upgrade the service at the house, or run a subpanel to the garage the financials get worse.

Someone buying a $30K Accord, doesn't have the cash for electric work and loaning themselves $7,500 until Uncle Sam passes out checks. They may rent and never charge at home. The Accord is 7 cubic feet bigger and refuels in 5 minutes for a 500 mile range. Unless the Model 3 has been vastly improved since 2018, I don't think it vastly out performs a Honda Accord in handling and cabin presence. at 5.8 seconds its a bit faster but who cares, in suburban traffic if the car in front of your Model 3 is an Accord or Camry (good chance) that's how fast you are leaving the traffic light.

That's reality.

As I mentioned above... purely speaking anecdotally... i don't think these are cross shoppers. If they are, then they are willing to pay a bit extra for something different and a new type of tech. If your comparo is strictly cost... a Corolla is always the answer for the cheapest, most economical, most durable option....always has been and always will be... in fact, almost no one needs anything outside of a Corolla for basic transportation.

But we all WANT something different... and at the price point mentioned above and the new experience, a lot of people are willing to crossover... and it will be more prevalent the cheaper it gets. I don't want a Model 3 as my primary car... but as a 2nd all around car, sure I would try it at this price point because it offers something different. And at least for ME... I don't know of any other cars, that offers the handling, performance, daily torque and drive ability at this price point.

[Car-Addicted]

More good news

Toxic fluoride gas emissions from lithium-ion battery fires
Large amounts of hydrogen fluoride (HF) may be generated, ranging between 20 and 200 mg/Wh of nominal battery energy capacity. In addition, 15–22 mg/Wh of another potentially toxic gas, phosphoryl fluoride (POF3), was measured in some of the fire tests.

Fluoride gas emission can pose a serious toxic threat and the results are crucial findings for risk assessment and management, especially for large Li-ion battery packs.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-09784-z

So hydrogen fluoride and water produces hydrofluoric acid. Hydrogen fluoride is an extremely dangerous gas, forming corrosive and penetrating hydrofluoric acid upon contact with moisture. The gas can also cause blindness by rapid destruction of the corneas.

So is water the answer to LiPo fires?
My company sells these batteries and they scare the hell out of me.
There are a number of folks with positive results using regular liquid soap to put out small LiPo fires. Maybe the future is Tesla's with built in soap dispensers?

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by kyriian

No, its not going to make it beautiful, it does rid a ton of the stock's issue

I can't even imagine buying a car with the intention of changing out the front fascia. The expense of this has got to be some serious $$$$, but then again this forum is full of people taking expensive cars and spending exorbitant (by my standards) on aftermarket upgrades. Me, I prefer to let the factory do my car building for me. . If a BMW 4 isn't enough buy a 4 Comp, if that is not enough buy a M4, still need more get a M4 CS, still not enough go for the M4 CSL. Not satisfied then go Porsche shopping.

[Car-Addicted]

Ruh-Roh
Green Fail: Government Offshore Wind Farm Auction Attracts Zero Bids
Zero. That was the sum total of new UK offshore wind projects bought by developers at a key government auction Thursday, as renewable energy groups shunned the sector as unviable even with heavy taxpayer subsidies.
It said while offshore and floating offshore wind projects did not feature on the agreed deals list, the outcome was “in line with similar results in countries including Germany and Spain.”
The Department for Energy Security and Net Zero acknowledged the lack of new offshore wind farms will be a blow to the pledge to deliver 50 gigawatts (GW) of the source by 2030 compared with 14 GW today.

In January the United Kingdom turned to coal-fired power plants saved from being decommissioning to keep the lights on as other power sources failed.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

I can't even imagine buying a car with the intention of changing out the front fascia. The expense of this has got to be some serious $$$$, but then again this forum is full of people taking expensive cars and spending exorbitant (by my standards) on aftermarket upgrades. Me, I prefer to let the factory do my car building for me. . If a BMW 4 isn't enough buy a 4 Comp, if that is not enough buy a M4, still need more get a M4 CS, still not enough go for the M4 CSL. Not satisfied then go Porsche shopping.

This one is obviously more than just a front grille, I changed out the boring grille on the wifes CLK cab and it was an instant success, just £90 so doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg.

[R N M]

Imagine giving ppl $7,500 discounts funded by the Government on a lease and still not being able to sell cars or make any profit.

Just wait until these incentives are removed and EVs start to get taxed to make up for loss of gas tax revenue. Unfortunately it will be too late to go back to ICE…..

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

I can't even imagine buying a car with the intention of changing out the front fascia.

It is even worse. Imagine paying thousands to fix the front of your vehicle, only to end up with a product that still looks like complete dog sh*t. Miss Piggy will always be Miss Piggy, with or without makeup.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by R N M

Imagine giving ppl $7,500 discounts funded by the Government on a lease and still not being able to sell cars or make any profit.

Just wait until these incentives are removed and EVs start to get taxed to make up for loss of gas tax revenue. Unfortunately it will be too late to go back to ICE…..

my man... Tesla profit margin is multiples most car makers.. because their crappy build quality has allowed for cheap manufacturing.

[KRS_SN]

Originally Posted by ASAP

my man... Tesla profit margin is multiples most car makers.. because their crappy build quality has allowed for cheap manufacturing.

There's slso selling of unfinished fsd products and creative accounting practices like carbon credits etc

[M5Rick]

Brutal but fully justified, EW's are not normal ppl.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...n-highway.html