Still want an EV? (NO POLITICS)

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by G35POPPEDMYCHERRY

do any of yall have jobs? I am sure you do.... I would hope you put in as much effort into your jobs than these posts

Allow myself to... ah... quote myself.

[KRS_SN]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I was thinking the incident is tied to the EV-only regenerative braking function. Just a guess though.

Possibly true
Note this paragraph from the article

"Mr Morrison said: "Eventually I came up to a roundabout which slowed the car down to about 15mph and the police van was waiting for me on the other side.

"I went into the back of the van while it was moving, before they put on the brakes to stop me."


The front end of the car looks undamaged. It looks like collision avoidance emergency braking was activated.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by KRS_SN

Possibly true
Note this paragraph from the article

"Mr Morrison said: "Eventually I came up to a roundabout which slowed the car down to about 15mph and the police van was waiting for me on the other side.

"I went into the back of the van while it was moving, before they put on the brakes to stop me."


The front end of the car looks undamaged. It looks like collision avoidance emergency braking was activated.

Yes, that I found that a bit interesting because Morrison kept saying the car would not slow past 30 MPH until the roundabout. I think that points to a software issue within the various drive-by-wire systems. Something was not well sorted with Mr. Morrison's car.

Glad I still have my wife's near-analog Z3. One of, if not the last of, the drive-by-cable BMWs.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by jmg

Why would it change? Do you discard objectivity so easily?

This vehicle has the same braking system as it’s ICE counterpart so any defects in the braking system wouldn’t be caused by the fact that the car is an EV.

This would be the equivalent of saying that I will only eat Knott’s strawberry jam because I had a hard time opening a Knott’s grape jam jar when the strawberry jam is packaged in the exact same jar.

There is no way anyone in this thread is actually in real life fearful of being in an EV and then not having it stop. It's just fear porn. It's not a real concern. They are just sh*t posting.

[pikkagtr]

Hypothetical safety feature
Cliff on right side
Bunch of blind orphaned children with down syndrome on left side of road getting of their special needs bus
You brakes have malfunctioned and the AI autopilot need to make a decision
Does it plow into the children or kill you by going off the cliff

[fcman]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

I'll point out the obvious. A non-EV would slow down naturally then stop with the help of the handbrake also. The EV kept on driving and a police van was used to slow it to a stop and held like that because it wanted to keep moving.
You say the brakes are mechanical on this EV, what about the parking brake, that's right, it probably hasn't got a conventional one? making it a high accident risk for the uninitiated.
It begs the question how would it pass the compulsory safety examination required after 3 years from new.

E-brake on my 2021 Model Y works the same as it did on my 2015 Corvette and my 2023 BMW M2. All 3 are just buttons. Nothing to do with the drivetrain

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Yes, that I found that a bit interesting because Morrison kept saying the car would not slow past 30 MPH until the roundabout. I think that points to a software issue within the various drive-by-wire systems. Something was not well sorted with Mr. Morrison's car.

Glad I still have my wife's near-analog Z3. One of, if not the last of, the drive-by-cable BMWs.

Same with my 928

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by pikkagtr

Hypothetical safety feature
Cliff on right side
Bunch of blind orphaned children with down syndrome on left side of road getting of their special needs bus
You brakes have malfunctioned and the AI autopilot need to make a decision
Does it plow into the children or kill you by going off the cliff

Do we really want some geek who programmes these EV motherboards or whatever making that decision
Hey! a Tottenham supporter, I used to be.

[fcman]

Originally Posted by gblansten

There is no way anyone in this thread is actually in real life fearful of being in an EV and then not having it stop. It's just fear porn. It's not a real concern. They are just sh*t posting.

Some people really are just that scared of every little thing.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by fcman

E-brake on my 2021 Model Y works the same as it did on my 2015 Corvette and my 2023 BMW M2. All 3 are just buttons. Nothing to do with the drivetrain

Then lets hope in such a moment the driver remembers to use it..I noticed the driver in the vid wearing flip flops while driving and not the best footwear should he do an emergency stop if the tip tags the brake pedal.
Driving in flip flops whatever the weather is banned in UK now.

[fcman]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Then lets hope in such a moment the driver remembers to use it..I noticed the driver in the vid wearing flip flops while driving and not the best footwear should he do an emergency stop if the tip tags the brake pedal.
Driving in flip flops whatever the weather is banned in UK now.

LOL I hate driving in flip flops. If I am wearing them i put them in the passenger footwell and drive barefoot, that's Florida life though

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by fcman

LOL I hate driving in flip flops. If I am wearing them i put them in the passenger footwell and drive barefoot, that's Florida life though

That must be an experience driving with bare feet

[jmg]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

I'll point out the obvious. A non-EV would slow down naturally then stop with the help of the handbrake also.
The EV kept on driving and a police van was used to slow it to a stop and held like that because it wanted to keep moving.
You say the brakes are mechanical on this EV, what about the parking brake, that's right, it probably hasn't got a conventional one? making it a high accident risk for the uninitiated.
It begs the question how would it pass the compulsory safety examination required after 3 years from new.

The handbrake or lack of a handbrake is not exclusive to the EV. Plenty of ICE vehicles also have an electronic handbrake.

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Last I checked, ICEV have an ignition switch that can turn off the engine and ICEV also have a transmission that has a neutral position to disengage the engine power from the drivetrain. So even in the case of a drive-by-wire throttle malfunction there are still user interface failsafes that can be implemented to prevent the ICEV from contuing on its own power.

There are plenty of ICE vehicles that are push button start and an electronic drive mode selector. These are not EV exclusive features.

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I was thinking the incident is tied to the EV-only regenerative braking function. Just a guess though.

I was thinking this too, but the regenerative braking function is downstream of the brake system. There is no regenerative component that directly affects brake pressure, and it actually senses wheel speed, the brakes don't even need to be depressed for the system to initiate.

[EDIT: Apologies, I had a zoom meeting, so I didn't have time to expand on this thought until now:]

However, for argument's sake let's imagine a scenario, regardless of how unlikely, that the regenerative braking system somehow caused the brakes to fail:

• While it increases efficiency, regenerative braking is not an essential component to the EV.
• The validity of the EV as an alternative to the ICE on a global scale does not hinge upon a non-essential component.
• Addressing risk factors with the component is the solution, not dismissing the EV as a viable means of transportation.

These unsubstantiated assumptions are counterproductive and undermine the overall credibility of the anti-EV sentiment in this thread. It's difficult for anyone with sound reason outside of the filter bubble to take these arguments seriously. This is why these echo chambers are so attractive. It provides validation for very little actual worth.

[M5Rick]

[QUOTE=jmg;30545492]The handbrake or lack of a handbrake is not exclusive to the EV. Plenty of ICE vehicles also have an electronic handbrake.

----------------------------------

Sure . But we expect it to slow the car down and stop it eventually.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Sure . But we expect it to slow the car down and stop it eventually.

Sure, given it wasn't user error, or mechanical defect with the brakes, lack of brake fluid, etc. However, if these brake and handbrake components are essentially identical on the ICE counterpart, how is this exclusively an issue with the car being an EV?


There are dozens of reasons why brakes fail on vehicles, both ICE and EV, but to jump to the conclusion that it must be because the car is an EV is just another example of confirmation bias.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by jmg

Sure, given it wasn't user error, or mechanical defect with the brakes, lack of brake fluid, etc. However, if these brake and handbrake components are essentially identical on the ICE counterpart, how is this exclusively an issue with the car being an EV?


There are dozens of reasons why brakes fail on vehicles, both ICE and EV, but to jump to the conclusion that it must be because the car is an EV is just another example of confirmation bias.

The hand or park brake, be it electronic or handle pull is separate from the main master cylinder operated brake fluid system and it's unlikely that the main brake failure would have an effect on this.
As KRS suggested it could be connected to software that had a glitch exclusive only to an EV.

[freakystyly]

The story sounds like it was out of control for at least an hour if not more. It also doesn't mention (I didn't read every post) how the car was disabled, not just stopped, in the end, by the police officer. I guess driving into the side of the curb to slow down doesn't work anymore with these monstrous SUV wheels.

We've heard the stories with Toyotas and floor mats, this sounds a bit different as it was a steady slower speed (cruise control).

Why would the carmaker allow the operating system to have full control over the brakes without redundancies or a kill switch is another question.

[M5Rick]

More EV hell and I don't suppose charging machines take cash, no thought not.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/2427...s-paying-fuel/

[jmg]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I have no understanding of the specific MG SV EV architecture, so my thoughts are based on my general knowledge of EV drivelines.
Considering most EV have some level of regenerative braking and most are a gear-reduction single speed transmission with no neutral (i.e. no gear disengagement), I can see were a module malfunction could cause a no-stop condition in an EV. While I agree the brake system is hydraulic, does the tie-in to an adjustable one-pedal drive of the mechanical brake system make it a true drive/brake-by-wire where any brake pedal modulation is digitized in conjunction with the motor controller. If that is a design architecture then a code error could possibly cause a no-stop situation in an EV vs. an ICEV.

• Since an ICE's throttle input is also by wire in many modern vehicles, this no-stop scenario caused by input control errors is not exclusive to the EV.
• An EV's motor's output is reculated a through a by-wire control system. Many ICE transmissions are by-wire as well, so the failure point is similar in that a software limitation or error could prevent a vehicle from disengaging the engine in both vehicles. Again, not exclusive to the EV.
• Hyundai has developed a EV disconnector system for it's AWD platform, which could act as a safety redundancy instead of throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

As the thread you linked to states, the concensus is the story is BS. Could be, but an interesting discussion regardless. I've read and heard that Teslas one-pedal drive can be adjusted to essentially stop the car at low speeds without touching the mechanical brakes. If I were the driver of the MG, with all the apparent time he had, perhaps adjusting to max regen would have saved the day.

Many EVs, including all of my i3's have enough regenerative braking to be able to stop the vehicle without using the brakes.





I edited my post as you were replying so I will include it here because I think it still applies:

Originally Posted by jmg

[EDIT: Apologies, I had a zoom meeting, so I didn't have time to expand on this thought until now:]

However, for argument's sake let's imagine a scenario, regardless of how unlikely, that the regenerative braking system somehow caused the brakes to fail:

• While it increases efficiency, regenerative braking is not an essential component to the EV.
• The validity of the EV as an alternative to the ICE on a global scale does not hinge upon a non-essential component.
• Addressing risk factors with the component is the solution, not dismissing the EV as a viable means of transportation.

[fcman]

Originally Posted by jmg

Many EVs, including all of my i3's have enough regenerative braking to be able to stop the vehicle without using the brakes.

In the Teslas you can't even adjust it anymore, regen is always set to max and if you pull your foot all the way off the throttle it brakes very aggressively. I barely ever touch the brake pedal

[jmg]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

The hand or park brake, be it electronic or handle pull is separate from the main master cylinder operated brake fluid system and it's unlikely that the main brake failure would have an effect on this.
As KRS suggested it could be connected to software that had a glitch exclusive only to an EV.

Software is downstream of the hydraulic brake, control comes from the pedal, not the software in both an EV and an ICE.

In the case of an electronic handbrake, implementation is the same in an EV and an ICE. A handbrake software glitch is just as possible in an ICE just as it is an EV.

Originally Posted by M5Rick

As KRS suggested it could be connected to software that had a glitch exclusive only to an EV.

Here is what he said:

Originally Posted by KRS_SN

An ICE without Adaptive cruise control might not develop a software glitch that makes it keep going at 30mph. Also brake failures don't keep.a car going at 30mph for long. This sounds like a software specific issue and EV are full of software etc..

His argument is presented as two statements of evidence to support his conclusion, however, those statements are ineffective:


Evidence #1: "An ICE without Adaptive cruise control might not develop a software glitch that makes it keep going at 30mph"
An ICE with AAC could develop this glitch, so this doesn't establish this as an issue exclusive to the EV.



Evidence #2: "Also brake failures don't keep.a car going at 30mph for long"
For argument's sake, let's imagine this is true (it is not). This statement only speculated that there is likely more than just brake failure to blame in this scenario, but does not state what that could be, nor does it state a reason that is exclusive to the EV.



Conclusion: "This sounds like a software specific issue and EV are full of software etc.."
After two statements that do not establish this as an issue exclusive to the EV, KRS jumps to the conclusion that it is exclusive to the EV. To an echo chamber eager to reach the favorable conclusion, this might sound like a good argument, but it doesn't hold under scrutiny.

The "evidence" is completely disconnected from the conclusion. It's a non sequitur, and it fails to provide any coherent support for your argument.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

More EV hell and I don't suppose charging machines take cash, no thought not.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/2427...s-paying-fuel/

"More"... really?

There is absolutely nothing new in this article, yet you are presenting this as a new outrageous problem and mounting evidence to support you bias. Yet, this has been discussed several times in this thread with valid points brought up by BOTH sides.

Bringing this up as if this is new information indicates either poor memory or intellectual dishonesty. In other words, they are either not capable of retaining the information, or are pretending to not retain the information. Both undermines credibility.