Quote:
Originally Posted by rcracin
Quote:
Originally Posted by e90335e36m3
Not saying the drivers aren't an integral part of winning races, but we have people sweeping facts under the rug completely to make their case.
I am not saying Verstappen is better. I'm saying in F1 it's impossible to know for sure.
None of the points I made were ever seriously rebutted by any individuals claiming their favored driver is the GOAT.
To give an analogy. If I say well your driver basically gets a 30 second head start at the beginning of a race because he's driving with the best team/technology so it's impossible to tell where he would've been without it and your response is well look at all the races he won, so he is the best, that's a joke. Forget Verstappen. Use Haas as an example. We will never know how good Grosjean could've been if he had a seat at McLaren. Guaranteed he would still be with some F1 team.
That's why I'm not making GOAT arguments. Some others are. So they have the burden of proof, but fail to account for inequity.
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You're refusing to account for the years when Ham wasn't in the best car and when he won races he had no business winning. Or even pole positions. Your level of proof required for GOAT status seems to require perfect scenarios. The rest of us will likely go by good skill and statistics.
Grosjean didn't deserve an F1 seat, yet alone a McLaren seat. Common, look at what he did at SPA. Thankfully he made it out alive last year, but that was clearly his serious lack of judgment. If he hadn't crashed and say sent Kvyat into the barrier instead, we'd seriously be talking bout damn near criminal charges needing to be brought up. Except he did it to himself. |
I am not making an argument about GOATs, just refuting what others hold as a truth. My argument doesn't require perfection but it does require the basic assumption that the sport provides a level playing field to all competitors. F1 does not and that's irrefutable. Absent that constant, it's possible to make a guess as to who one thinks the GOAT is, but to speak with the level of certainty some on this forum do is strange IMO.