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      01-24-2013, 06:02 PM   #1
nicknaz
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E89 not allowed at BMW CCA events

Sigh.

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Hey Nick, I am sorry to tell you that BMW CCA does not allow convertibles at driving schools...
Maybe you can borrow another car?
Sorry,
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      01-24-2013, 07:11 PM   #2
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Absolutely unsat.
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      01-24-2013, 08:35 PM   #3
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why build it if it is banned?
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      01-24-2013, 09:29 PM   #4
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Wow, I did not know that. Is there any reason for this rule?
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      01-25-2013, 01:09 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by morfinx View Post
Wow, I did not know that. Is there any reason for this rule?
Their point of view is that the OEM rollover protection is insufficient and an aftermarket rollbar and harnesses need to be used.

I shouldn't act surprised, since I knew this before getting the Z (and I can always do other driving schools) but right now I can't help but feel like I should have gotten one of the fixed roof cars I was cross shopping instead.

http://www.bmwcca.org/sites/default/...AOpsManual.pdf

page 43

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Convertibles are not allowed to participate in sessions driven at-speed unless the car is equipped
with the following minimum requirements:
a. A rollbar or roll cage meeting the requirements of Section 3.7; and
b. A 5- or 6-point harness for both driver and instructor"

At the discretion of the Chapter, cars with factory-installed, fixed rollover protection or removable roof
sections may be allowed, but only if this protection meets the Helmet Reference Plane described in Figure
1 in Section 3.7 for both the driver and passenger.
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      01-25-2013, 01:11 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by rking117 View Post
why build it if it is banned?
For the vast majority who only drive their "ultimate driving machine" on the street.....
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      01-25-2013, 01:14 AM   #7
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That sucks. Z4s are definitely allowed at the high performance driving course I've been to. So I'm sure you can find another course to take.
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      01-25-2013, 05:29 AM   #8
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Wow they really weren't kidding when suggesting the Z4 is not a track toy. I don't like that, I still track my car with a big ass helmet.
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      01-25-2013, 09:36 AM   #9
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It should be noted that Porsche and MB allow convertibles at their events, so BMW's concerns are specious.
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      01-25-2013, 10:41 AM   #10
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The e89 is allowed at BMW CCA autocross competition events, at least in Golden Gate Chapter. Did it myself a few times in 2012.
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      01-25-2013, 11:41 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Z435_2010 View Post
The e89 is allowed at BMW CCA autocross competition events, at least in Golden Gate Chapter. Did it myself a few times in 2012.
I've done autox in the past and its not my thing. I prefer track days a lot more.

You know, I actually looked at the helmet reference planes they referred to in the CCR and I don't meet the criteria. I can't sit low enough in the car to have 2" of clearance on the plane formed by the top of windshield and the roll hoops. And the plane formed by top of suspension to roll hoops grazes the top of my forehead.

I think they are right on, and it isn't safe for me to track this thing. Just because the other clubs allow me to take the risk doesn't mean it's the smart thing to do.

The last time I went to a driving school I found a lot of flaws with the car (steering feel, tires, cooling, understeer bias, insufficient power) and I would need to spend $ to fix those and get a cage to make the car more suitable.

I've decide to hold off on spending on this car and will just get a Porsche or z06 next time.

Z is a fine car but the more I spend time with it the more it sinks in this was built for a cruise/street customer and not a track junkie.
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      01-25-2013, 12:38 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz
I've done autox in the past and its not my thing. I prefer track days a lot more.

You know, I actually looked at the helmet reference planes they referred to in the CCR and I don't meet the criteria. I can't sit low enough in the car to have 2" of clearance on the plane formed by the top of windshield and the roll hoops. And the plane formed by top of suspension to roll hoops grazes the top of my forehead.

I think they are right on, and it isn't safe for me to track this thing. Just because the other clubs allow me to take the risk doesn't mean it's the smart thing to do.

The last time I went to a driving school I found a lot of flaws with the car (steering feel, tires, cooling, understeer bias, insufficient power) and I would need to spend $ to fix those and get a cage to make the car more suitable.

I've decide to hold off on spending on this car and will just get a Porsche or z06 next time.

Z is a fine car but the more I spend time with it the more it sinks in this was built for a cruise/street customer and not a track junkie.

How tall are you?
I'm 6"2 and still have enough clearance with helmet on.
I do agree with your assessment that the Z is more of a cruisin in style, but that changed after installation of KW V3 and Michelin PSS. Granted driving on city streets is being sacrificed
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      01-25-2013, 01:26 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by snk View Post
How tall are you?
I'm 6"2 and still have enough clearance with helmet on.
I do agree with your assessment that the Z is more of a cruisin in style, but that changed after installation of KW V3 and Michelin PSS. Granted driving on city streets is being sacrificed
I'm 6"

How do you position your seat? It is the plane from the top of the suspension to the top of the roll hoops that I can't get to work. The top of the windshield to top of the rollbars is ok.

It is going to be like $10k to change out the cooling fan to 850W, add the 1M / 335is auxiliary radiator, get an aftermarket suspension (and get it dialed in...) get 18s with PSS or R tires, change brake components, put in some power adders.. and it will still be slower than a stock C6 Z06.

Not worth it for me. I might as well get a sport bike again, or use the $ to get a better car that's more suitable for my usage when the lease contract is up.

EDIT: no matter what I do to the E89, it isn't going to be 3000lb and become mid engined, or be able to accept 325 wide rear tires. It just isn't the right car for turning into a track toy.

Great street car / lots of fun.. but dang it.. I am getting bored on the street. I might have to rent a car to track for now.

Last edited by nicknaz; 01-25-2013 at 01:38 PM.
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      01-25-2013, 09:48 PM   #14
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I was just about to join BMWCCA and read the convertible requirements and got depressed.
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      01-25-2013, 09:56 PM   #15
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Quote:
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I was just about to join BMWCCA and read the convertible requirements and got depressed.
There is a great high performance driving program that operates in TX that does allow Z4s.
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      01-25-2013, 09:56 PM   #16
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what is that one?
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      01-25-2013, 09:59 PM   #17
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what is that one?
http://www.thedriversedge.net/
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      01-25-2013, 10:36 PM   #18
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Quote:
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I was just about to join BMWCCA and read the convertible requirements and got depressed.
qft

Just to be sure - we're not talking about auto-x here, right? Thought the BMW CCA Goldengate chapter did allow e89 at those events.
Ca tracks are hit and miss for convertibles.
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      01-25-2013, 11:06 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vasmir
qft

Just to be sure - we're not talking about auto-x here, right? Thought the BMW CCA Goldengate chapter did allow e89 at those events.
Ca tracks are hit and miss for convertibles.
I've been doing track days with NCRC. No problem for Z4 as long as you pass the broomstick test.
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      01-25-2013, 11:08 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz
I've done autox in the past and its not my thing. I prefer track days a lot more.

You know, I actually looked at the helmet reference planes they referred to in the CCR and I don't meet the criteria. I can't sit low enough in the car to have 2" of clearance on the plane formed by the top of windshield and the roll hoops. And the plane formed by top of suspension to roll hoops grazes the top of my forehead.
I set the seat at the lowest setting. Sit somewhat straight up as I hate the squeaking noise when the seat run against the car.
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      01-26-2013, 12:10 PM   #21
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You can participate in BMW-CCA autocross and "driver training" events with a convertible. You cannot do BMW-CCA track events. It is a decision made by the club's BoD based on recommendations from their "lega; staff", due to disproportionate fear of liability issues. BMW (the company) has nothing to do with the decision.

Just another example of paper-hangers running your life.
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      01-26-2013, 12:48 PM   #22
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Quote:
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I'm 6"
Oh my god ... How ever do you manage to look over the steering wheel ...

Are all people that tiny in California ?

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