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      10-01-2012, 01:18 PM   #45
nicknaz
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Originally Posted by teagueAMX View Post
Wrong!
MY 2014 M3 comes out and has same Z4 35i tt engine
.
Is that confirmed? N54 in the F30 M3? It will be really interesting to see what part #s are the same and which are specific to the M3

Re your comment about things being overbuilt.. That's where I hope BMW will step up to the plate and give the M3 the cooling capability for the drivetrain and the brakes to withstand hard track day use without modifications, similar to Porsche
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      10-01-2012, 03:07 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by juhap View Post
+1

The way things are going, in ten years you won't be steering the car either. And it will be completely silent. All you can do is sit there castrated and make engine sounds with your mouth.
True
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      10-01-2012, 03:19 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
Is that confirmed? N54 in the F30 M3? It will be really interesting to see what part #s are the same and which are specific to the M3
Here's a couple of links from the M3 Post side of the house.

The links have photos and video. Basically, it looks confirmed it will be an inline 6 with at least two turbos (likely). Horsepower been boosted of course, and the inter-cooler has been relocated to the top of the engine. But if you listen to the exhaust note, it is very similar to the Z4 N54 (IMO).

http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=744293

http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=743864
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      10-01-2012, 04:01 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Exterminador View Post
its basically a bigger Miata. BMW should be ashamed of themselves for putting the letter M on this.
dumb comment...i would expect a fellow bmw owner to appreciate z4 for what it is.
it has been considered best looking bmw, not on par with m3 performance but people choose to buy it over m3 vert even though they are pretty much same price
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      10-01-2012, 07:31 PM   #49
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Mind you: Since most of your fellow countrymen think like you, this version is not even offered in the U.S. There simply is no market.
The US is all about power.
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      10-02-2012, 01:21 AM   #50
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Don't you worry, the "M" here stands for "Marketing".
Yes, because BMW should only sell manual M3's with NA engines which no longer meet emission standards until they run out of money and go bankrupt. Brilliant!!!

People need to realize that BMW is not here just to please a small percentage of their "purist" customers but also to make money. Their job is to make money.

Last time I checked the so called "purist" car manufacturers were going bankrupt and were being bought out by manufacturers that actually make money. For example Porsche and Lamborghini being now owned by Volkswagen, Ferrari by Fiat, Aston Martin and Jaguar first by Ford then some Indian company and so on.

Get with the program people, and if you don't like M models or variants aside from the M3 , no one is forcing you to buy one. That's my two cents.

- Peter
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      10-02-2012, 06:46 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by ZheHbKa View Post
dumb comment...i would expect a fellow bmw owner to appreciate z4 for what it is.
it has been considered best looking bmw, not on par with m3 performance but people choose to buy it over m3 vert even though they are pretty much same price
Actually, the only dumb comment was yours my fellow BMW owner.

I was simply saying that I don't like a sport car body with no power. If you are really that worried about gas millage you can buy a hybrid or diesel model.

Again, this is only my opinion. Everyone has there own concept of the way they like their cars.

Its just my two cents. Ok?
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      10-02-2012, 11:06 AM   #52
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Actually, the only dumb comment was yours my fellow BMW owner.

I was simply saying that I don't like a sport car body with no power. If you are really that worried about gas millage you can buy a hybrid or diesel model.

Again, this is only my opinion. Everyone has there own concept of the way they like their cars.

Its just my two cents. Ok?
no need to get defensive.

1. comparing z4 to miata is dumb unless u r comparing roadsters, which u were not.

2. N20 engine has plenty of power, depends what u r comparing with.

3. to make it simple so even u can understand, i'll give u an example. if i compare ur m3 to buick (like recent magazine did) and say that buick is better bang for the buck...what would u say? or to a mustang gt 5.0...that has more power and is faster....and cheaper? getting where i'm going with this?

(for everyone else: i have to play a devil's advocate. i love m3's )

and finally, u r entitled to ur opinion but voicing an opinion that shows ur ignorance and can be taken offensively by other is DUMB, hence my response.
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      10-02-2012, 03:33 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZheHbKa View Post
no need to get defensive.

1. comparing z4 to miata is dumb unless u r comparing roadsters, which u were not.

2. N20 engine has plenty of power, depends what u r comparing with.

3. to make it simple so even u can understand, i'll give u an example. if i compare ur m3 to buick (like recent magazine did) and say that buick is better bang for the buck...what would u say? or to a mustang gt 5.0...that has more power and is faster....and cheaper? getting where i'm going with this?

(for everyone else: i have to play a devil's advocate. i love m3's )

and finally, u r entitled to ur opinion but voicing an opinion that shows ur ignorance and can be taken offensively by other is DUMB, hence my response.
First of all, its totally acceptable to compare the miata to the Z4 (because they are roadsters!!!)

Second, this particular Z4 only makes 184HP (this is at the crank Einstein, not WHP)! Which I believe everyone (even you) would agree that is pretty weak. You are obviously talking about US models that have more power than this European version.

Third, your comparison of Buicks, Mustangs and whatever else makes no sense at all and has no relation in any manner with what I am saying. I won't bother explaining again.

For future reference you should have a better grasp of what is being discussed in said threads so you might be able to write a more intelligent response.
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      10-02-2012, 06:05 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by stickshifter69 View Post
The US is all about power.
I want to agree with you so badly.. but I feel like I can't since I went with a Z4 35i instead of a C6 Z06 or even a Boss 302 Mustang

I rationalized it by saying sub 5s 0-60 and 1/4 mile trap around 105mph was good enough and that the C7 Z06 will be where it's at
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      10-03-2012, 07:02 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exterminador View Post
First of all, its totally acceptable to compare the miata to the Z4 (because they are roadsters!!!)

Second, this particular Z4 only makes 184HP (this is at the crank Einstein, not WHP)! Which I believe everyone (even you) would agree that is pretty weak. You are obviously talking about US models that have more power than this European version.

Third, your comparison of Buicks, Mustangs and whatever else makes no sense at all and has no relation in any manner with what I am saying. I won't bother explaining again.

For future reference you should have a better grasp of what is being discussed in said threads so you might be able to write a more intelligent response.
....

1. read over my last response to #1

2. as i said depends what you are comparing it to, if u compare to all euro models 184 hp is not too bad AND i never said anything about WHP and CRANK

3. i see u r not too car savy to understand and u seem like one of those who bought an m3 because his neighbor had one.

in this type of discussion u address what i wrote not what 100 other people wrote.

with ur "clear" understnading i wouldnt be surprised if u were just a troll...judging by ur other posts ur iq ties with a shoe lace so i'm done wasting my time.
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      05-09-2013, 04:26 PM   #56
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Well said Teague!
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      05-09-2013, 04:57 PM   #57
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so individual z4 can have style 326 wheels from 35is 19"?
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      05-09-2013, 05:52 PM   #58
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I agree with Exterminador. Why make a sporty looking car if it has the performance of a Kia Rio? If they're so eager to put a 184 HP engine in it, why don't they just make a car smaller than the 1 series, call it the .5 series and be done with it? It's utterly ridiculous to waste this type of looks and styling on such a subpar engine. The BASE model of a car that looks this sporty should at least be moderately fast.
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      05-10-2013, 07:24 AM   #59
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I personally would NEVER buy this underpowered Z, as the only only thing you can do with it is literally putter around. I purchased performance with my 35i and expect to be amazed at every drive. If I wanted to look good with lackluster performance, I would ride around in my wife's MB C300.

However BMW is not Porsche or Lamborghini and the corporate office running BMW is charged with selling cars and knows that there is larger,world wide market to capture for the Z by offering many (watered down) formats and the "All show and no go" market is one of them. The bonus to BMW world wide to offering a no performance Z is a big jump is over all brand fuel efficiency. BMW is in the business of making money and marketing this Z as the " The Ultimate Driving Machine " will sell model models and in my humble opinion, only serve to dilute the Z and brand name once again. I am an admitted Z4 snob and love the exclusive Z4 club.

On the other side, BMW is now doing to the Z what is is doing to every other model. Down sizing the power for better fuel efficiency (for again, markets all over the world). All you have to do is to look at the complete BMW line up of recent releases:
New 320 series with the same motor
New M 3 dumping (I mean downsizing) from the massive V8 to now a turbo 6.
New reduced power 5 series.
Hybrid models
On and on.

I under stand the cost side of the euro markets with heavy taxes on higher power, but it is not for me. As much as I love the Z, when I test drove. Automatic 30i compared to the 35i DCT, I would have not plunked down my Money on anything less the fantastic adrenaline rush of the 300 twin turbo 35i. I cannot image the further power reduction and driving disappointment going from 335 HP 35is, to 300HP, to 255HP 30i to now 184HP 2.0i. ARRRUGHHH

I digress.
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      05-10-2013, 08:46 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWZ4RIDER View Post
I personally would NEVER buy this underpowered Z, as the only only thing you can do with it is literally putter around. I purchased performance with my 35i and expect to be amazed at every drive. If I wanted to look good with lackluster performance, I would ride around in my wife's MB C300.

However BMW is not Porsche or Lamborghini and the corporate office running BMW is charged with selling cars and knows that there is larger,world wide market to capture for the Z by offering many (watered down) formats and the "All show and no go" market is one of them. The bonus to BMW world wide to offering a no performance Z is a big jump is over all brand fuel efficiency. BMW is in the business of making money and marketing this Z as the " The Ultimate Driving Machine " will sell model models and in my humble opinion, only serve to dilute the Z and brand name once again. I am an admitted Z4 snob and love the exclusive Z4 club.

On the other side, BMW is now doing to the Z what is is doing to every other model. Down sizing the power for better fuel efficiency (for again, markets all over the world). All you have to do is to look at the complete BMW line up of recent releases:
New 320 series with the same motor
New M 3 dumping (I mean downsizing) from the massive V8 to now a turbo 6.
New reduced power 5 series.
Hybrid models
On and on.

I under stand the cost side of the euro markets with heavy taxes on higher power, but it is not for me. As much as I love the Z, when I test drove. Automatic 30i compared to the 35i DCT, I would have not plunked down my Money on anything less the fantastic adrenaline rush of the 300 twin turbo 35i. I cannot image the further power reduction and driving disappointment going from 335 HP 35is, to 300HP, to 255HP 30i to now 184HP 2.0i. ARRRUGHHH

I digress.
So your point is that while the 320 makes sense alongside the 335is and M3, an economy version of a lambo or 911 just doesn't. Similarly a 6-series does not come with any less than 300hp...

And then you are saying that the Z4 brand is suffering from including both an economy and a performance version at the same time. It is hard not to agree. The boxter brand does not suffer from the same problem (all are economy versions ). But then the main competitor, the SLK-brand, wouldn't be any different from the Z-brand.

Sometimes I think it is nice that I can tell people that I "just" drive a Z4, not a 6 or 7-series or something, and they will automatically assume it's the sDrive23i that everyone else drives here. Then you can get better discounts, and won't have to worry about people thinking you are a massive show off. But then at other times...
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Little known facts about BMW: 1) The N54 is still in production and used in the current Z4 35i and 35is. 2) In a Z4 you can get sport+ steering combined with normal suspension etc by selecting DSC=off. 3) All Z4s with 19" wheels are still only offered with the worst performing OEM tires ever sold with a DCT equipped BMW (Potenza RE 050 RFT).
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      05-10-2013, 07:44 PM   #61
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Hi, i have an z4 20i m -sport and 180hp is a lot in a country where 95% of the cars reach 90hp, i know is sad because i paid 90k dollars for this version but 28i and 35i or the dreamed 35is are not avaible, even if you have the money to buy it, you can't obtain it. Evolution racewerk offered me a kit (Downpipe + tunebox) which claim to obtain 280hp. Don't know if it possible.
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      05-10-2013, 09:25 PM   #62
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. . .Evolution racewerk offered me a kit (Downpipe + tunebox) which claim to obtain 280hp. Don't know if it possible.
No doubt it's possible to obtain another 100 +/- hp from 2L, but I would be hesitant to do it. Turbo charging an engine already places high demands on the engine pistons and rotating assembly due to high cylinder pressures. Sustained over boost to gain an additional 100 hp is not healthy for long engine life.

And unlike the n54, I really don't believe BMW left 100 hp on the table for easy pickings. Think about it: Dinan's n54 stage III tune adds 98 more horsepower and 129 more lb-ft, or about 33 percent hp increase. That increase is spread across 3L and 6 cylinders. Dinan is willing to warranty the engine, but he adds a larger oil cooler and tweaks other engine operations like the water pump.

Increasing the 2.0L from 180 hp to 280 hp is a 55 percent increase. If it was for racing purposes and all that concerned you was the next 5 to 10 races, then by all means squeeze out every last hp. But for a daily driver, if they really can produces those numbers, for longevity sake and no warranty, I would avoid it.

FWIW

Cheers
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      05-11-2013, 09:34 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by teagueAMX View Post
No doubt it's possible to obtain another 100 +/- hp from 2L, but I would be hesitant to do it. Turbo charging an engine already places high demands on the engine pistons and rotating assembly due to high cylinder pressures. Sustained over boost to gain an additional 100 hp is not healthy for long engine life.

And unlike the n54, I really don't believe BMW left 100 hp on the table for easy pickings. Think about it: Dinan's n54 stage III tune adds 98 more horsepower and 129 more lb-ft, or about 33 percent hp increase. That increase is spread across 3L and 6 cylinders. Dinan is willing to warranty the engine, but he adds a larger oil cooler and tweaks other engine operations like the water pump.

Increasing the 2.0L from 180 hp to 280 hp is a 55 percent increase. If it was for racing purposes and all that concerned you was the next 5 to 10 races, then by all means squeeze out every last hp. But for a daily driver, if they really can produces those numbers, for longevity sake and no warranty, I would avoid it.

FWIW

Cheers
Not sure what engine were talking about here.

Using the N20 as an example.

In the 320i the engine makes 180hp

While in the 328i it makes 240hp.

So is the 320i N20 a de-tuned version of the engine or is the 328i N20 a hopped up version of the engine?

I will say your argument is correct the N20 at 240hp has one of the highest BMEPs (avg cylinder pressure) of any stock engine in the BMW catalog.

I've seen where at least one tuner has taken this engine to 300hp using E85. So definitely possible but to your point probably not very good for the long term life of your engine.
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