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      09-30-2012, 04:07 AM   #23
Dante
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diver View Post
I guess this is a Europe only model. I am a bit confused as to whether this is a petrol or diesel engine. Obviously, it is not an N20.
Ok, lets break it down for you guys.
This auto show is taking place....where? Paris! Oh, no. Not the one in Texas.
So where is this Paris if not in the U.S.??
Could there be a place outside the U.S important enough to hold a auto show?
Could this be Europe??
Yes, it is!!

And so it comes that this model has a totally underpowered variant of the 2.0 N20 Engine (yes, it is) which has been around (not in the U.S.) for over 1 year now and is rather sucessfull.

There are many countries all over the world where a Z4 20i is as expensive as a Z4 35is is in the U.S.
And these miserable people also want to drive around in style.

Is that ok with you guys?
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      09-30-2012, 06:18 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diver View Post
I guess this is a Europe only model. I am a bit confused as to whether this is a petrol or diesel engine. Obviously, it is not an N20.
Ok, lets break it down for you guys.
This auto show is taking place....where? Paris! Oh, no. Not the one in Texas.
So where is this Paris if not in the U.S.??
Could there be a place outside the U.S important enough to hold a auto show?
Could this be Europe??
Yes, it is!!

And so it comes that this model has a totally underpowered variant of the 2.0 N20 Engine (yes, it is) which has been around (not in the U.S.) for over 1 year now and is rather sucessfull.

There are many countries all over the world where a Z4 20i is as expensive as a Z4 35is is in the U.S.
And these miserable people also want to drive around in style.

Is that ok with you guys?
Exactly!
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      09-30-2012, 06:46 AM   #25
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I like it but i would prefer a contrast with Alpine White. I think it would look gorgeous. The actual combo is nice but is way better on a ferrari !!!
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      09-30-2012, 06:58 AM   #26
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and about the engine, fuel prices are very high in Europe, and in some countries like Belgium, taxes are huge regarding engine power.

Exemple:

BMW 320d : 1240 € to hit the road and then 740 € / year

BMW 335i : 4957 € to hit the road and then 1200 € / year ...

plus when its a professional leasing you pay extra taxes for CO2 ...

Otherwise i think you would see a lot more 328 and 335 in Belgium, but those taxes are simply prohibitive. Thats why this Z4 makes sense. Aerokit is just for the looks, thats all!
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      09-30-2012, 07:05 AM   #27
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Why? Soo ugly
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      09-30-2012, 07:54 AM   #28
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I want those wheels
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      09-30-2012, 08:03 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teagueAMX View Post
Wrong!

I happen to think the Miata is a great little car. Best of all it's true to purpose - a cheap, light, fun to drive sports car.

But how are you M3 fan boys going to get that superior feeling when the MY 2014 M3 comes out and has same Z4 35i tt engine - how that must hurt!

Other than a few suspension bits, there will be no difference between the Z4 35i and M3 drive trains. Add a Dinan stage III tune to a run of the mill Z4 35i, change the dampers and anti-roll bars, add an LSD then lay in wait for the "real" ///M.

.
First of all, I have no issue with the Z4 being a small fun car. I actually like the body and looks quite much.

My problem is with the lack of horsepower!!! I hate it when carmakers build aggresive looking cars that have no power!!! Its counterintuitive
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      09-30-2012, 08:05 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antennahead View Post
Totally dilutes the meaning of "M", it's so pedestrian

(and this is not a knock on the Miata, but BMW for watering down "M" to this point)
This is exactly my point
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      09-30-2012, 08:11 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante View Post
Ok, lets break it down for you guys.
This auto show is taking place....where? Paris! Oh, no. Not the one in Texas.
So where is this Paris if not in the U.S.??
Could there be a place outside the U.S important enough to hold a auto show?
Could this be Europe??
Yes, it is!!

And so it comes that this model has a totally underpowered variant of the 2.0 N20 Engine (yes, it is) which has been around (not in the U.S.) for over 1 year now and is rather sucessfull.

There are many countries all over the world where a Z4 20i is as expensive as a Z4 35is is in the U.S.
And these miserable people also want to drive around in style.

Is that ok with you guys?
No it's not ok! We want it to be like Texas in París!

I see you point now. Hahaha
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      09-30-2012, 09:50 AM   #32
Mr. ///M3 RD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teagueAMX View Post
But how are you M3 fan boys going to get that superior feeling when the MY 2014 M3 comes out and has same Z4 35i tt engine - how that must hurt!

.
Exactly right ! .... and that is why I shall hang on to my 2011 M3 and the next car will be the Porsche.
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      09-30-2012, 10:40 AM   #33
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What are you people all complaining about? They're not trying to call it an M car, it just has the M-sport package, just like is an option on every other BMW model. Are you complaining about those, too? It's just changing some trim bits and the suspension a little, but they are not in any way trying to call it an actual M car. They've been doing this for years. You can get an old E-36 316i with 100hp with an M-sport package. Its just trim. In Europe there is a huge demand for less powerful, more fuel efficient engines, so this thing will sell very well, especially with the added visual "sporty" elements. So quit your moaning.
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      09-30-2012, 12:55 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante View Post
Ok, lets break it down for you guys.
This auto show is taking place....where? Paris! Oh, no. Not the one in Texas.
So where is this Paris if not in the U.S.??
Could there be a place outside the U.S important enough to hold a auto show?
Could this be Europe??
Yes, it is!!

And so it comes that this model has a totally underpowered variant of the 2.0 N20 Engine (yes, it is) which has been around (not in the U.S.) for over 1 year now and is rather sucessfull.

There are many countries all over the world where a Z4 20i is as expensive as a Z4 35is is in the U.S.
And these miserable people also want to drive around in style.

Is that ok with you guys?

Maybe it's not OK. Are you the thought police or is your job to make everyone conform? Some of us are not morons and frankly don't appreciate your condescending tone.

I like all the Fiat 500's running around here in the US. There's bunch of them in So Calif. I've never driven one but they look like a sensible car, and I absolutely love this commercial.




Anyway, back on to my original point: Dante, Mr. Thought Policemen, would you be satisfied with a 2.0 liter, 1.0 liter or sub-1 liter package in a 3,300 lb "sports car" - regardless of what country it's being shipped to? It may not be here today, but it will be here in a year or two. I say call it whatever you want, but don't call it a sports car.

.
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Last edited by teagueAMX; 09-30-2012 at 01:45 PM.
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      09-30-2012, 02:01 PM   #35
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The meaning of 'M' is not just about M3s and M5s and it never has been. The M535i was one of the first M cars back in the 80s and was not a fully fledged M car. M Sport (as opposed to M Power) has always been about body kits, suspension tweaks and the odd badge and nothing more just to 'add value' and make more profit on the product.
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      09-30-2012, 03:10 PM   #36
Dante
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teagueAMX View Post

Anyway, back on to my original point: Dante, Mr. Thought Policemen, would you be satisfied with a 2.0 liter, 1.0 liter or sub-1 liter package in a 3,300 lb "sports car" - regardless of what country it's being shipped to? It may not be here today, but it will be here in a year or two. I say call it whatever you want, but don't call it a sports car.

.
There is a simple solution to your point: If you don't want one, don't buy one.
Mind you: Since most of your fellow countrymen think like you, this version is not even offered in the U.S. There simply is no market.
And as you might already have figured out: I wouldn't want one too.
But I'm not hating on it. A 2.0 litre turbo with 184 hp (which is the base version)
apparantly is enough for others. And if there is a market for a Z4 with the just presented 1.5 litre 3cylinder, why not sell it? Not that I think this is going to happen, just sayin!
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      09-30-2012, 04:49 PM   #37
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There are some funny Americans here!
For example Audi TT has a base model with a 1.8l TFSI engine and 160 PS.
Mercedes SLK has a base model with a 1.8l engine and 184 PS.
In some countries these base models are enough because the taxes for the engines with a capacity over 2l are quite high!
Adding an M Pack, S Line, etc offers a more aggressive look and a sportier drive and again this is what a lot of young persons want!
Base price for Z4 20i in Germany:36.600 Euro ~ 47300 $; in US the base price for Z4 28i: 48650 $.
If we take into account the fuel prices you will understand why the Europeans like these base engines too
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      09-30-2012, 06:56 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante View Post
There is a simple solution to your point: If you don't want one, don't buy one.
Mind you: Since most of your fellow countrymen think like you, this version is not even offered in the U.S. There simply is no market.
And as you might already have figured out: I wouldn't want one too.
But I'm not hating on it. A 2.0 litre turbo with 184 hp (which is the base version)
apparantly is enough for others. And if there is a market for a Z4 with the just presented 1.5 litre 3cylinder, why not sell it? Not that I think this is going to happen, just sayin!
Quote:
Originally Posted by vladberca View Post
There are some funny Americans here!
For example Audi TT has a base model with a 1.8l TFSI engine and 160 PS.
Mercedes SLK has a base model with a 1.8l engine and 184 PS.
In some countries these base models are enough because the taxes for the engines with a capacity over 2l are quite high!
Adding an M Pack, S Line, etc offers a more aggressive look and a sportier drive and again this is what a lot of young persons want!
Base price for Z4 20i in Germany:36.600 Euro ~ 47300 $; in US the base price for Z4 28i: 48650 $.
If we take into account the fuel prices you will understand why the Europeans like these base engines too
I understand both your points and they are well taken. Thanks for the clarification.

Without continuing the argument, let's just say rhetorically speaking, does it qualify as an ultimate driving machine? BMW knows the answer to how their clients feel, and the market decides regardless of what I think.

But for clarification, I don't hate the car - it's beautiful. But I really, really don't like the trend. Although not in the same classes, one can look at the 911 P/W ratio as well as the Miata and Fiats I mentioned - they are both much lighter lighter cars. The Z4 2.0 liter displacement would make a lot more sense to me if BMW would shave off at least 300 lbs. As currently configured, 3,300 lbs and 185 hp the Z4 2.0i M will be a marginal performer at best, and the M designation is somewhat comical.

I'm one of those people who still loves a MT. The DCT is great, but I feel there should always be a MT option available. We know that's changing as well. In ten years, no one will remember that a MT even existed and likely call me crazy for suggesting that a human being would do something so unproductive as to actually decide what gears to shift and when to shift them. They will suggest that I have no love for mother earth.

The great line from I Robot, the movie:

". . . you drove by hand?!!! "

Cheers
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Last edited by teagueAMX; 09-30-2012 at 07:02 PM.
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      09-30-2012, 11:37 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerjph View Post
What BMW really needs to do is make the roof out of carbon fiber. I guarantee you that would make the car better in every way.
Nope. A soft top would make this car better in every way.
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      10-01-2012, 02:28 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saphirschwarz View Post
and about the engine, fuel prices are very high in Europe, and in some countries like Belgium, taxes are huge regarding engine power.

Exemple:

BMW 320d : 1240 € to hit the road and then 740 € / year

BMW 335i : 4957 € to hit the road and then 1200 € / year ...

plus when its a professional leasing you pay extra taxes for CO2 ...

Otherwise i think you would see a lot more 328 and 335 in Belgium, but those taxes are simply prohibitive. Thats why this Z4 makes sense. Aerokit is just for the looks, thats all!

Even worse here And fuel prices have gone up today, as of today we pay 21% VAT

I don't get all the comments on the 2ltr engine. A few weeks ago I was out of curiousity looking at used Audi A4 Avants (max 2yr old), most of them that came up in the search had 1.8ltr engines in them with just 120HP, now is that a joke or what?
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      10-01-2012, 07:46 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerjph View Post
What BMW really needs to do is make the roof out of carbon fiber. I guarantee you that would make the car better in every way.
except the price
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It's one thing for some buffoon to put an M badge on something that doesn't deserve it...it's another for a multi-billion dollar corporation to do the exact same thing and keep a straight face.
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      10-01-2012, 08:26 AM   #42
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eh. Not a fan of the roof color.

Thanks for posting.
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      10-01-2012, 10:58 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Projectile View Post
Nope. A soft top would make this car better in every way.
Except for looks, soundproofing and ease of maintenance.
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      10-01-2012, 11:02 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teagueAMX View Post
I'm one of those people who still loves a MT. The DCT is great, but I feel there should always be a MT option available. We know that's changing as well. In ten years, no one will remember that a MT even existed and likely call me crazy for suggesting that a human being would do something so unproductive as to actually decide what gears to shift and when to shift them.
+1

The way things are going, in ten years you won't be steering the car either. And it will be completely silent. All you can do is sit there castrated and make engine sounds with your mouth.
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